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Old 03-06-2013, 06:21 PM   #76
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They aren't asking him to take a pay cut per se, he'll still get his money and he's making enough, even with less over a longer period, that I doubt it would effect him to the extent it would effect me.
Yes they are, the thing you wrote immediately after that is the definition of a pay cut.

They are asking him to get paid less for the next 3 years then get the rest of his money over 2 additional years instead of making that money over 3 years and then getting paid additional money for the following years, even if it's for league minimum. That doesn't even get into losses associated with not having that money invested for the extra 2-3 years or the fact that the last 2 years won't be guaranteed.

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Old 03-06-2013, 06:23 PM   #77
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Bjoern Werner will be gone in first 5 or 10 picks.

I'll eat a can of moist cat food if Bjoern Werner lasts until the 28th pick.
I know, I know. But I have all kinds of dreams and hopes, just like 83 when we had the 4th pick and I kept hoping the first 3 wouldn't take Elway.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:23 PM   #78
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But if you were asked to take the paycut, full well knowing you might be able to get a better deal elsewhere, would you?
Ah... The rules of the game have changed.

If I "knew full well", then probably not.

If I "knew full well I MIGHT", then I would have to consider it. Being on a 13-3 team, with a solid team, etc. Might sway me.

"if I knew full well i might be able to get a better deal", I would just be confused and unable to make up my mind.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:30 PM   #79
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Yes they are, the thing you wrote immediately after that is the definition of a pay cut.

They are asking him to get paid less for the next 3 years then get the rest of his money over 2 additional years instead of making that money over 3 years and then getting paid additional money for the following years, even if it's for league minimum. That doesn't even get into losses associated with not having that money invested for the extra 2-3 years or the fact that the last 2 years won't be guaranteed.
I'm not going to check that out (the last sentence) because frankly I'm lazy right now and don't care. I can say I won't cry for him if it happens. I guess it's a matter of what you want more. And if he doesn't I have faith that the Broncos want that Lombardi enough to fill that position with something good. Hell the only player I wouldn't feel this way about is Von. Anybody else, take one for the team. I think Freeney is an assumption by the media.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:42 PM   #80
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Ah... The rules of the game have changed.

If I "knew full well", then probably not.

If I "knew full well I MIGHT", then I would have to consider it. Being on a 13-3 team, with a solid team, etc. Might sway me.

"if I knew full well i might be able to get a better deal", I would just be confused and unable to make up my mind.
Im not changing the rules, you know how football works. If you want to compare it to real life, and your boss asked you to take a paycut and you had opportunities elsewhere, you may well tell him to get ****ed.

I dont know how much they'd ask him for, but if youre trying to set up the rest of your life, your kids lives, and so forth, you might want to make as much as possible in your brief career.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:44 PM   #81
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There's absolutely no way Dumervil is cut or traded. The front office knows how valuable he is. You people are crazy, I'll say it again. If you really think that sacks are a good measure of how well he played this year, you're not watching the game the right way.

With that said, being financially smart is one thing but I would be very surprised if Bowlen is sparing any expense to get all the players that we need this offseason.. or at least those that are open to coming here, which is probably a very long list.

We are in win-now, Pat. Spend that money.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:44 PM   #82
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I wouldn't blame Elvis for refusing. He sucked it up and played 4 years making 4th round pick money and played at a high level. I don't remember him holding out. Better make that money while he still can (here or elsewhere). Hope this doesn't turn into a Trevor Pryce situation.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:51 PM   #83
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Is all this Xander's fault?
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:56 PM   #84
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Im not changing the rules, you know how football works. If you want to compare it to real life, and your boss asked you to take a paycut and you had opportunities elsewhere, you may well tell him to get ****ed.

I dont know how much they'd ask him for, but if youre trying to set up the rest of your life, your kids lives, and so forth, you might want to make as much as possible in your brief career.
Sure you did, but that's ok.

I do know how football works. Fact is that Doom had a really good season. It wasn't great though and he has a similar skill set to Von, who is much better and younger. I hope the Broncos and Doom work it out but it doesn't look good.

Another fact about football (and other pro sports): It doesn't matter how much many of these guys make, they typically don't set up anything for the rest of their lives. They frequently end up in debt and owing a bunch of money to the IRS. So to use your analogy of comparing it to real life-you can't. It simply isn't the same thing which goes back to your original point of an employer asking the employees to take a 10% pay cut and how we would all feel about it. It isn't the same thing and doesn't have any merit when discussing a DE approaching 30 years old and their club suggesting he take a pay cut.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:58 PM   #85
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It's business, don't see why Doom would take a flat out pay cut. I wouldn't.

Any player is only 1 play away from losing it all, and you only get one shot to make your money over a very short career, so maximize it the best you can. If Doom doesn't think he can get a comparable deal elsewhere is the only reason he should stay. And if he does think he can get a new deal elsewhere, he gets another signing bonus.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:11 PM   #86
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Dumerville is a good player, he's not worth $12 million or a tenth of this team's salary cap next year. If he wants to come back for less great otherwise cut bait and fill holes with the cap we save. Bottom line is we can make this team very good in areas now in need of help through this move. Get on or off the bus Mr. Dumerville, we have a Championship to win.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:15 PM   #87
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There's absolutely no way Dumervil is cut or traded. The front office knows how valuable he is. You people are crazy, I'll say it again. If you really think that sacks are a good measure of how well he played this year, you're not watching the game the right way.

With that said, being financially smart is one thing but I would be very surprised if Bowlen is sparing any expense to get all the players that we need this offseason.. or at least those that are open to coming here, which is probably a very long list.

We are in win-now, Pat. Spend that money.
I don't want Doom traded, I just want what you said afterward, whatever is going to get it done.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:32 PM   #88
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Dumervil has his moments, but also his moments far too often where he does nothing to be considered anything close to an elite player. He needs to take a pay cut. If Miller wasn't around, one could guess how more often Dumervil would disappear.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:33 PM   #89
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just a question:

How would you like it if your employer asked you to take a paycut to be a team player? A paycut of, i assume, 10% of your salary...regardless of how much you make.
Well, the feds just took 20% of mine. I'm thrilled to help out the rich and the poor simultaneously. Not to mention those Egyptians!!!
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:42 PM   #90
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How much would John Abraham cost?
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:49 PM   #91
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The Broncos want to win the SB. Sometimes to do that you have to ask high priced players to rework their contract for the good of the team. I'm not sure why fans are SHOCKED or even ANGRY about this. It happens every year and every off season posters get all butt hurt about this issue like "how dare they try and take that mans money".
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:17 PM   #92
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The Broncos want to win the SB. Sometimes to do that you have to ask high priced players to rework their contract for the good of the team. I'm not sure why fans are SHOCKED or even ANGRY about this. It happens every year and every off season posters get all butt hurt about this issue like "how dare they try and take that mans money".
It has nothing to do with a SB run. Denver us already about 10m under. I'm certain they will get rid of DJ so they'll be at about 16 under. And they want Doom to take a haircut too? Its not about a run. They've got plenty of space to make moves. Plenty. Its about the same BS every year.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:21 PM   #93
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Sure you did, but that's ok.

I do know how football works. Fact is that Doom had a really good season. It wasn't great though and he has a similar skill set to Von, who is much better and younger. I hope the Broncos and Doom work it out but it doesn't look good.

Another fact about football (and other pro sports): It doesn't matter how much many of these guys make, they typically don't set up anything for the rest of their lives. They frequently end up in debt and owing a bunch of money to the IRS. So to use your analogy of comparing it to real life-you can't. It simply isn't the same thing which goes back to your original point of an employer asking the employees to take a 10% pay cut and how we would all feel about it. It isn't the same thing and doesn't have any merit when discussing a DE approaching 30 years old and their club suggesting he take a pay cut.
Uh, I didn't, but that's OK. And regardless of what other players in his profession do, you don't know how he lives his life. The Broncos signed him to a contract, and if they don't want to honor that contract and he thinks he can get something similar on the open market, then he's not a dick for telling them to get ****ed.

At the end of the day, a contract is a contract. If he's expecting that income and suddenly is asked to give some of it up, it doesn't mean he's not a "team player" for agreeing. It might be more commonplace in the NFL for this sort of thing to happen, but he doesnt have to agree if he feels he can get his money elsewhere (whether its true or not)
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:35 PM   #94
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It has nothing to do with a SB run. Denver us already about 10m under. I'm certain they will get rid of DJ so they'll be at about 16 under. And they want Doom to take a haircut too? Its not about a run. They've got plenty of space to make moves. Plenty. Its about the same BS every year.
Minus Clady s money and signing a few others to keep around. Denver's cap room isnt as large as it seems.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:55 PM   #95
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Yes they are, the thing you wrote immediately after that is the definition of a pay cut.

They are asking him to get paid less for the next 3 years then get the rest of his money over 2 additional years instead of making that money over 3 years and then getting paid additional money for the following years, even if it's for league minimum. That doesn't even get into losses associated with not having that money invested for the extra 2-3 years or the fact that the last 2 years won't be guaranteed.
Except that he could have a career ending injury this year and not see another dime. Guarantees add some value. You could ask him to take a moderate cut this year for some guaranteed money over the next two. Tough balance though. You can't lowball those later years because he has to feel like it competes with what he could get elsewhere if you were otherwise forced to cut him. They can't cut his pay in half or anything, but they may be able to shave 2-3 million off his cap hit this year.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:59 PM   #96
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The Broncos want to win the SB. Sometimes to do that you have to ask high priced players to rework their contract for the good of the team. I'm not sure why fans are SHOCKED or even ANGRY about this. It happens every year and every off season posters get all butt hurt about this issue like "how dare they try and take that mans money".
I only get mad when I hear names like Freeney thrown out there. That grass is definitely not greener.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:06 PM   #97
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Is all this Xander's fault?
No because Bowlen is a gutless drunk! lol
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:23 PM   #98
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So does this mean the Broncos will increase all the player's play who overperformed their contracts, like Woodyard, Harris, Carter, and Decker? I guess they are all getting big raises right?

If i was Doom I'd tell them to suck it and cut me. He is going to make more in FA plus he'll get another signing bonus.
The NFL takes care of the that to an extent. Woodyard's base was increased by $1m for 2013 and Decker's by $700k due to performance in 2012.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:40 PM   #99
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It's not about cap with the Broncos anymore it's about cash spent in any given league year.

They dont want to push money back in his deal by turning base salary into signing bonus. They want to pay him less this year at least and use that money to strengthen the team in other areas.

Broncos have some $115m being paid to players this season. We rarely go over $130m-$135m cash in the one year.

4 Bronco players took paycuts last year and I doubt Dumervil will be the last to be asked either. I see Kuper and Mays on that list if they even decide to keep both.

So in essense they'll be targetting $26m worth of base salaries for Doom, DJ, Mays and Kuper and attempting to drastically reduce that number I'd say by at least 50%.

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Old 03-07-2013, 01:43 AM   #100
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Oh and "in your face" to everyone who called me stupid for bringing up this topic a few weeks ago.



http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=110082
I said near the end of the regular season he was having a good year but not a great year and just about everybody here tore me a new one. I still like his game, but he's a sack specialist. He's not an all around dominant DE but he's paid like one, well this coming year anyhow. I agree with Broncos, he's playing well but not worth 12 million. Get that number in single digits or trade him if you can. I think Ayers (who's coming into his 5th year) really showed some improvement last year and I think he could be ready. Hunter also looked really solid last year before injury.

And since we're on the DL subject, who here likes Malik Jackson? He's listed as DL and I think I've seen him in preseason line up as both DT and DE. Honestly, he's got the prototype DE body at 6'5 275. Got long arms. I like what he showed in preseason. Obviously needs to groom his rushing but I thought he played the run well and showed some ability. I just don't see us trying to turn him into a DT. To me he is more of a DE. Look forward to him having a much bigger impact this year for us now going into this 2nd year.
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