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Old 03-05-2013, 08:04 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
How did talking about his talents and potential impact become his cap figures?
Becuase if you are going to talk about signing Revis, we better get him an extension, and if he does agree, then that means he is getting some serious amount of cash. His agent, Ryan and himself talk about how they view him as the best defensive player in all of football.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:27 PM   #202
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I never said that. But "Doom's production" isn't anything that can't be replaced over time or in a rotation with another player..

Say you draft Oakfor or Tank C @28. And you rotate him in on passing downs, and Ayers plays base downs. Ayers gets 7 sacks as a full time starter, while a rookie gets 6.. Is production not improved? The run defense is probably a little improved and that's quality production from two players in a rotation, and the rookie is making an impact is he not? Cap numbers would be a fifth as much too!
Your plan hinges on Ayers getting more sacks than he's ever had before, while only playing run downs. That's all I'll say.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:27 PM   #203
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Sigh. There's no way Denver would pony up a 1st rounder and Doom for Revis in a one year rental situation. Clearly, a reworked contract would be a part of such an enormous deal.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:21 AM   #204
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The Jets are in cap hell. They can't take Dumervil on. They brought a new GM in to restore order. Ripping Doom's deal up means mortgaging the future on 29-year-old, undersized player. Why would Jets do that when they are in the middle of a complete tear down?
That is a good point. It would be best to trade pics for revis. Jets will probably have another bad season. Revis gone, Ryan fired, Sanchez cut. Best to start to tear the jets apart now and after next season.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:03 AM   #205
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So are you implying that we trade Doom and the rumored 1st for a 1 year rental with no guarantee of him signing with us? Lol... thanks but no thanks. Some people around here...
Lol (Sign of the Dork). Some people around here assume too much. I wasn't implying anything, only correcting the what Revis' cap charge would be -- it's $6M, not $8M -- and pointing out that a contending team like the Niners (with 15 picks) wouldn't be forced to give Revis a new deal.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:03 AM   #206
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would rather save the pick + doom and sign nnamdi. We need to ask Champ to take a paycut due to his level of play and we should be set.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:18 AM   #207
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Your plan hinges on Ayers getting more sacks than he's ever had before, while only playing run downs. That's all I'll say.
Not every team runs on first and second down.. Ayers will kick inside on passing downs along with Wolfe.. So I'm not sure why 7 sacks for Ayers who will be on the field for an additional 400 snaps can't get 7 sacks and a rookie 5-6...
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:24 AM   #208
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Schefter was on Mike and Mike this morning saying basically that the Jets will be lucky to get a 2nd and a 3rd. He doubts if anyone will part with a 1st, and he didn't mention them any other players as potentially part of a deal. A New York paper (forget which one) said that San Fran and Atlanta were ready to deal.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:35 AM   #209
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would rather save the pick + doom and sign nnamdi. We need to ask Champ to take a paycut due to his level of play and we should be set.
Two bad plays and you're asking for pay cuts? FWIW Peyton threw more than a couple of bad passes that game. How much should he give back?
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:39 AM   #210
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Lol (Sign of the Dork). Some people around here assume too much. I wasn't implying anything, only correcting the what Revis' cap charge would be -- it's $6M, not $8M -- and pointing out that a contending team like the Niners (with 15 picks) wouldn't be forced to give Revis a new deal.
Nobody's trading for Revis without inking a new deal. And Revis isn't going to sign anything anywhere close to 6m.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:38 AM   #211
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have you people lost your mind??

Revis is coming off of a season ending injury. He's unproven. We have no idea how good he can be, this isn't like Peyton Manning. Revis can't smart his way to covering a fast receiver if his leg won't cooperate.

Doom is a very good player for us. He's a game changer at times. The reason I know that Dumervil is not the person included is because the Broncos coaches and front office KNOW how important Dumervil is to this team. No way we trade him. And honestly Ayers looked very strong at times last year it would be a shame to see him go.

Revis for picks? yeah, we're in Win-now. Revis for integral players on our defense? No ****ing way.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:52 AM   #212
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would rather save the pick + doom and sign nnamdi.
I brought this very thing up for discussion earlier in the thread but it got zero traction for some reason. There are/will be several other FA CBs worth discussing as well...

Aqib Talib
Brent Grimes
Sean Smith
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
Chris Houston
Cary Williams
Derek Cox
E.J. Biggers
Mike Jenkins
Bradley Fletcher
Keenan Lewis
Dunta Robinson
Sheldon Brown
Quentin Jammer
Brice McCain
Leodis McKelvin
Terence Newman
Kyle Arrington
Tracy Porter
Antoine Cason
Rashean Mathis
Jacob Lacey
Pacman Jones
Jerraud Powers
Joselio Hanson
Darius Butler
Captain Munnerlyn
Terrence McGee
Stanford Routt
Marcus Trufant
Leigh Bodden
Chris Owens
Shawntae Spencer
Kelvin Hayden
William Middleton
Pat Lee
Cedric Griffin
Greg Toler
D.J. Moore
William Gay (Signed a three-year, $4.5M deal with PIT)
Michael Adams
Drayton Florence
Ryan Mouton
Zackary Bowman
Michael Coe
Alan Ball
Will Allen
Drew Coleman
Alphonso Smith
Chris Carr
Chris Johnson

Last edited by TonyR; 03-06-2013 at 06:58 AM..
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:55 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
Not every team runs on first and second down.. Ayers will kick inside on passing downs along with Wolfe.. So I'm not sure why 7 sacks for Ayers who will be on the field for an additional 400 snaps can't get 7 sacks and a rookie 5-6...
I see where the confusion is. You thought that I was saying 7 sacks is more than Ayers has had any one season. While that is true, what I meant is that 7 sacks is more than Ayers has accumulated over the course of his four year career. He's played in 57 games, started 24, and has been on the field for 2,193 snaps, accumulating 6.5 sacks. So no, I do not think he can get 7 sacks in a season because he kicks inside on passing downs.

Also, in our defense, I don't think 2 guys who combine for 12 sacks are as good as one guy who gets 12 by himself. Mainly because of the respect a passrusher like Doom gets, the way that affects the offense's blocking schemes, and what that means for Von.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:05 AM   #214
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NFL website says Falcons and 49ers interested in Revis. They still have not list the Broncos. If we hear Doom rumors why haven't they?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...darrelle-revis

Last edited by Bacchus; 03-06-2013 at 07:14 AM..
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:09 AM   #215
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NFL website says Falcons and 49ers interested in Revis. They still have not list the Broncos. If we here Doom rumors why haven't they?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...darrelle-revis
Because there are no Doom rumors?
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:09 AM   #216
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I see where the confusion is. You thought that I was saying 7 sacks is more than Ayers has had any one season. While that is true, what I meant is that 7 sacks is more than Ayers has accumulated over the course of his four year career. He's played in 57 games, started 24, and has been on the field for 2,193 snaps, accumulating 6.5 sacks. So no, I do not think he can get 7 sacks in a season because he kicks inside on passing downs.

Also, in our defense, I don't think 2 guys who combine for 12 sacks are as good as one guy who gets 12 by himself. Mainly because of the respect a passrusher like Doom gets, the way that affects the offense's blocking schemes, and what that means for Von.
Yeah, it's amazing how these guys don't think of Doom as at all complimentary to Von's success. When you lead the league in sacks, it's not all just because of one guy.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:13 AM   #217
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Yeah, it's amazing how these guys don't think of Doom as at all complimentary to Von's success. When you lead the league in sacks, it's not all just because of one guy.
Wolfe is the facilitator for Von not Doom.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:15 AM   #218
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Because there are no Doom rumors?
Is that something that was just thrown out in this thread?
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:16 AM   #219
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A New York paper (forget which one) said that San Fran and Atlanta were ready to deal.
SanFran has a boatload of picks so they may be hard to beat.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:19 AM   #220
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I see where the confusion is. You thought that I was saying 7 sacks is more than Ayers has had any one season. While that is true, what I meant is that 7 sacks is more than Ayers has accumulated over the course of his four year career. He's played in 57 games, started 24, and has been on the field for 2,193 snaps, accumulating 6.5 sacks. So no, I do not think he can get 7 sacks in a season because he kicks inside on passing downs.

Also, in our defense, I don't think 2 guys who combine for 12 sacks are as good as one guy who gets 12 by himself. Mainly because of the respect a passrusher like Doom gets, the way that affects the offense's blocking schemes, and what that means for Von.
We both agree Revis would improve the defense.

We just disagree about how Doom can be replaced.

I think you can replace that production, you don't. I think you can draft someone to be the next Doom easier than you can draft and find the next Revis.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:31 AM   #221
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Pass rather either draft a CB or pick up FA one before giving away Doom and pick. BTW does anyone really believe that Revis is worth a first. I could see second and condition pick in the following draft but not a starter and 1st.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:33 AM   #222
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We both agree Revis would improve the defense.

We just disagree about how Doom can be replaced.

I think you can replace that production, you don't. I think you can draft someone to be the next Doom easier than you can draft and find the next Revis.
Agreed. No FA CB is even in the same building as a healthy Revis.
And yes, a healthy Revis is every bit as good as Champ ever was
in his prime. Dude is a pure monster in any defense in any down
and consistently shuts down monster WR's. But he also is excellent
in the run game and an awesome tackler. Well worth every penny.
For me, its all about the health. And if fully healthy, not giving up
anything more than 2 2nds without Doom, and no more than a
3rd with Doom.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:02 AM   #223
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Wolfe is the facilitator for Von not Doom.
I think other teams' ability to spread the field and then eat us alive over the middle is the biggest thing hurting Doom. If he could count on pass rushing in normal passing situations, his numbers would improve dramatically. The fact that teams can run or dump short on passing downs forever makes his work more difficult than it should be.

Not that that's on Wolfe. But we've at least got to do something at MLB and/or DT.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:04 AM   #224
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I think other teams' ability to spread the field and then eat us alive over the middle is the biggest thing hurting Doom. If he could count on pass rushing in normal passing situations, his numbers would improve dramatically. The fact that teams can run or dump short on passing downs forever makes his work more difficult than it should be.
So he should've shined against Baltimore and their constant deep passing attack........right?
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:05 AM   #225
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A source tells ESPN's Chris Mortensen that the 49ers' interest in Darrelle Revis is ".001 on a scale of 1-10."
We're hesitant to take this report at face value. Now that the Jets have essentially put their cards on the table, the leverage game is on. Even if the Niners do want to deal for Revis, coming out and saying so would be silly. They'll be trying to execute the trade while giving up as few assets as possible, as will a fistful of other teams. The Falcons, Bucs, Colts and Eagles all make some sense as eventual trade partners for the Jets.
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