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Old 03-03-2013, 07:54 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by ZONA View Post
Oh man, that reply was so FAIL.


Comparing guns to condoms is a very bad analogy. But to answer your question, I suppose if more condoms were used, it would mean less unwanted pregnancies, less STD's.
I suppose if more firearms were used it would mean less forcible entry, less burglary.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:18 AM   #52
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Good thing we have the Constitution on our side.
Not if you actually read the ****ing thing. It's the first 3 words of the Amendment, surely even you can make it that far.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:27 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
I suppose if more firearms were used it would mean less forcible entry, less burglary.
Actually statistics don't support your claim about guns. They do about condoms, though.
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:24 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by houghtam View Post
Actually statistics don't support your claim about guns. They do about condoms, though.
Pft, who needs evidence when you have ideology?
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:22 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by houghtam View Post
Actually statistics don't support your claim about guns. They do about condoms, though.

Chicago says hi!

Chicago pop. - 2.7 million
Houston pop. - 2.15 million

Chicago household median income -$38,600
Houston household median income-$37,000

% Black - Chicago 32.9% Houston 24%
% Hispanic - Chicago 28.9% Houston 44%
% Asian - Chicago - 5.5% Houston 6%
% White - Chicago 31.7% Houston 26%

both cities are pretty similar......until you see that,

Chicago has no carry and conceal law, where Houston does. Chicago has arguably the toughest gun laws in the nation....Houston? Guns are bought as fashion acessories

Chicago doesn't have any gun shops, gun shows, etc....where Houston has approximately 1500 places (pawn shops, gun shops, gun shows, walmart, etc.) where you could buy a gun (shotgun, rifle, pistol)

In 2012, Chicago had 506 homicides, Houston had 207 homicides

Total homicides per 100K in population Chicago has almost twice as many (18.4) as Houston (9.6)

How is that possible?
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:57 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by errand View Post
Chicago says hi!

Chicago pop. - 2.7 million
Houston pop. - 2.15 million

Chicago household median income -$38,600
Houston household median income-$37,000

% Black - Chicago 32.9% Houston 24%
% Hispanic - Chicago 28.9% Houston 44%
% Asian - Chicago - 5.5% Houston 6%
% White - Chicago 31.7% Houston 26%

both cities are pretty similar......until you see that,

Chicago has no carry and conceal law, where Houston does. Chicago has arguably the toughest gun laws in the nation....Houston? Guns are bought as fashion acessories

Chicago doesn't have any gun shops, gun shows, etc....where Houston has approximately 1500 places (pawn shops, gun shops, gun shows, walmart, etc.) where you could buy a gun (shotgun, rifle, pistol)

In 2012, Chicago had 506 homicides, Houston had 207 homicides

Total homicides per 100K in population Chicago has almost twice as many (18.4) as Houston (9.6)

How is that possible?
Hi Chicago, how are you? Did you know we were talking about whether having a gun in the home prevents burglaries?

The rest of the nation and the international community say hi!

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058_3

Quote:
Theoretically, knowledge that potential victims have access to firearms could increase the perceived cost of committing a crime to a potential perpetrator and thus prevent the crime from occurring. However, there does not seem to be credible evidence that higher levels of gun ownership and availability actually deter crime. A criminologist once claimed that publicized police programs to train citizens in gun use in Orlando (to prevent rape) and in Kansas City (to prevent robbery) led to reductions in crime.[80] However, a careful analysis of the data found no evidence that crime rates changed in either location after the training.[81] The deterrent effects of civilian gun ownership on burglary rates were supposedly shown by the experiences of Morton Grove, Illinois—after it banned handguns—and Kennesaw, Georgia (I saw you use it AGAIN as an example in that other thread...it's horse**** and I've already addressed this...I lived in Kennesaw for three years)— after it required that firearms be kept in all homes.[80] Again, a careful analysis of the data did not show that guns reduced crime.[82] Instead, in Morton Grove, the banning of handguns was actually followed by a large and statistically significant decrease in burglary reports.[81]

One study found an association between lower crime rates in states with higher levels of household gun ownership.[83] But the gun ownership data for the analysis were not valid. The source of the data (Voter News Service) stated that the data could not justifiably be used to determine state-level gun ownership levels or changes in gun ownership rates.

Some have argued that when gun prevalence is high, there are fewer burglaries[84] and fewer "hot" burglaries (when someone is at home) because burglars will seek out unoccupied dwellings to avoid being shot.[80,85] But the evidence does not show this. An international compilation of victimization surveys in 11 developed countries found that the United States (with the most guns) was average in terms of attempted and completed burglary rates,[86] and there was no relationship between gun prevalence and burglary rates.[12] Studies in the United States across states and counties found that in areas with higher levels of household gun ownership, there were actually more burglaries, and there were more burglaries when someone was at home, not less.[63,87] One reason may be that guns, like cash and jewelry, are attractive loot for burglars, and burglars may target houses with many guns.
I already posted this when Aurora happened, and no one had an answer for it then...I don't suppose you will now. There are 5 full pages for you to feast on, and just in case "Medscape" is too liberal of a site for you, here's a list of their sources. You can slog through them if you like...like I've said, I've already done the research, and I already know the facts.

Quote:
References

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Centers for Disease Control. Rates of homicide, suicide and firearm-related death among children, 26 industrialized countries. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 1997;46:101–105. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046149.htm. Accessed December 17, 2010.

Centers for Disease Control. WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports, 1999–2007. http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html. Accessed December 17, 2010.

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Kung HC, Pearson JL, Wei R. Substance use, firearm availability, depressive symptoms, and mental health service utilization among white and African American suicide decedents aged 15 to 64 years. Ann Epidemiol. 2005;15:614–621.

Dahlberg LL, Ikeda RM, Kresnow MJ. Guns in the home and risk of a violent death in the home: findings from a national study. Am J Epidemiol. 2004;160:929–936.

Wiebe DJ. Homicide and suicide risks associated with firearms in the home: a national case-control study. Ann Emerg Med. 2003;41:771–782.

Shah S, Hoffman RE, Wake L, Marine WM. Adolescent suicide and household access to firearms in Colorado: results of a case-control study. J Adolesc Health. 2000;26:157–163.

Grassel KM, Wintemute GJ, Wright MA, Romero MP. Association between handgun purchase and mortality from firearm injury. Inj Prev. 2003;9:48–52.

Shenassa ED, Rogers ML, Spalding KL, Roberts MB. Safer storage of firearms at home and risk of suicide: a study of protective factors in a nationally representative sample. J Epidemiol Community Health. 2004;58:841–848.

Grossman DC, Mueller BA, Riedy C, et al. Gun storage practices and risk of youth suicide and unintentional firearm injuries. JAMA. 2005;293:707–714.

Wintemute GJ, Parham CA, Beaumont JJ, Wright M, Drake C. Mortality among recent purchasers of handguns. N Engl J Med. 1999;341:1583–1589.

Markush R, Bartolucci A. Firearms and suicide in the United States. Am J Public Health. 1984;64:123–127.

Lester D. Firearm availability and the incidence of suicide and homicide. Acta Psychiatr Belg. 1988;88:387–393.

Birkmayer J, Hemenway D. Suicide and gun prevalence: are youth disproportionately affected? Suicide Life Threat Behav. 2001;31:303–310.

Lester D. Availability of guns and the likelihood of suicide. Sociol Soc Res. 1987;71:287–288.

Lester D. Gun ownership and suicide in the United States. Psychol Med. 1989;19:519–521.

Hellsten JJ. Motivation and Opportunity: An Ecological Investigation of U.S. Urban Suicide, 1970–1990. Irvine, CA: University of California; 1995.

Miller M, Lippmann S, Azrael D, Hemenway D. Household firearm ownership and rates of suicide across the 50 U.S. states. J Trauma. 2007;62:1029–1035.

Miller M, Azrael D, Hemenawy D. Household firearm ownership levels and suicide across U.S. regions and states, 0 1988–1997. Epidemiology. 2002;13:517–524.

Kleck G, Patterson EB. The impact of gun control and gun ownership levels on violence rates. J Quant Criminol. 1993;9:249–287.

Miller M, Azrael D, Hepburn L, Hemenway D. The association between changes in household firearm ownership and rates of suicide in the United States, 1981–2002. Inj Prev. 2006;12:178–182.

Kessler R, Berglund P, Borges G, Nock M, Wang PS. Trends in suicide ideation, plans, gestures, and attempts in the United States, 1990–1992 to 2001–2003. JAMA. 2005;293:2487–2495.

Sorenson SB, Vittes KA. Mental health and firearms in community-based surveys: implications for suicide prevention. Eval Rev. 2008;32:239–256.

Oslin DW, Zubritsky C, Brown G, Mullahy M, Puliafico A, Ten Have T. Managing suicide risk in late life: Access to firearms as a public health risk. Am J Geriatr Psychiatry. 2004;12:30–36.

Miller M, Barber C, Azrael D, Hemenway D, Molnar BE. Recent psychopathology, suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts in households with and without firearms: findings from the National Comorbidity Study Replication. Inj Prev. 2009;15:183–187.

Ilgen M, Zivin K, McCammon R, Valenstein M. Mental illness, previous suicidality, and access to guns in the United States. Psychiatr Serv. 2008;59:198–200.

Berman A, Brown R, Diaz G, et al. Consensus statement on youth suicide by firearms. Arch Suicide Res. 1998;4:89–94.

Mann JJ, Apter A, Bertolote J, et al. Suicide prevention strategies: a systematic review. JAMA. 2005;294:2064–2074.

Miller M, Azrael D, Hemenway D. Rates of household firearm ownership and homicide across US regions and states, 1988–1997. Am J Public Health. 2002;92:1988–1993.

Miller M, Hemenway D, Azrael D. Statelevel homicide victimization rates in the US in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001–2003. Soc Sci Med. 2007;64:656–664.

Zimring FE. The medium is the message: firearms caliber as a determinant of death from assault. J Legal Stud. 1972;1:97–123.

Hepburn L, Hemenawy D. Firearm availability and homicide: a review of the literature. Aggress Violent Behav. 2004;9:417–440.

Hemenway D, Miller M. Firearm availability and homicide rates across twentysix high-income countries. J Trauma. 2000;49:985–988.

Brearly HC. Homicide in the United States. Chapel Hill, NC: University of North Carolina Press; 2003.

Seitz ST. Firearms, homicide, and gun control effectiveness. Law Soc Rev. 1972;6:595–614.

Lester D. Relationship between firearm availability and primary and secondary murder. Psychol Rep. 1990;67:490.

Ruddell R, Mays G. State background checks and firearm homicides. J Crim Justice. 2005;33:127–136.

Duggan M. More guns more crime. J Polit Econ. 2001;109:1086–1114.

Cook P, Ludwig J. The social costs of gun ownership. J Public Econ. 2006;90:379–391.

Kellermann AL, Rivara FP, Rushforth NB, et al. Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home. N Engl J Med. 1993;329:1084–1091.

Rowland J, Holtzhauer F. Homicide involving firearms between family, relatives, and friends in Ohio: an offenderbased case-control study. Am J Epidemiol. 1989;130:825.

Kleck G, Hogan H. A national case control study of homicide offending and gun ownership. Soc Probl. 1999;46:175–193.

Hemenway D, Shinoda-Tagawa T, Miller M. Firearm availability and female homicide victimization rates among 25 populous high-income countries. J Am Med Womens Assoc. 2002;57:100–104.

Bailey JE, Kellermann AL, Somes GW, Banton JG, Rivara FP, Rushforth NP. Risk factors for violent death of women in the home. Arch Int Med. 1997;157:777–782.

Campbell JC, Webster D, Koziol-McLain J, et al. Risk factors for femicide in abusive relationships: results from a multi-site case control study. Am J Public Health. 2003;93:1089–1097.

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Hemenway D, Azrael D. Gun Use in the United States: Results of a National Survey. Washington, DC: National Institute of Justice; 1997.

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Rothman EF, Hemenway D, Miller M, Azrael D. Batterers' use of guns to threaten intimate partners. J Am Med Womens Assoc. 2005;60:62–68.

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Cook P, Ludwig J. Defensive gun uses: new evidence from a national survey. J Quant Criminol. 1998;14:111–131.

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Hemenway D, Azrael D. The relative frequency of offensive and defensive gun use: results from a national survey. Violence Vict. 2000;15:257–272.

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Old 03-04-2013, 08:36 PM   #57
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Found this in the depths of CNN of all places

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-18/o...?_s=PM:OPINION

A few highlights

- In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books and 43 government publications evaluating 80 gun-control measures. Researchers could not identify a single regulation that reduced violent crime, suicide or accidents

- A year earlier, the Centers for Disease Control reported on ammunition bans, restrictions on acquisition, waiting periods, registration, licensing, child access prevention and zero tolerance laws. CDC's conclusion: There was no conclusive evidence that the laws reduced gun violence.


Still valid today as the day it aired.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:34 AM   #58
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^^^ Care to link which studies and reports prove that "more guns = less crime"?

I'd also like to see an explanation on why Japan has only about 10 gun homicides per year.

For some reason I don't trust the corporate journalist John Stossel.


Quote:
Total homicides per 100K in population Chicago has almost twice as many (18.4) as Houston (9.6)
Gun control is ineffective when your next-door neighbor sells guns freely.

This is the gun store in Indiana, about 15 minutes from the south side where the majority of guns used in Chicago crimes are sold:



http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...from.html?_r=0







If you give people easy access to people-killing tools, guess what happens?

Last edited by Blart; 03-05-2013 at 01:01 PM..
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:10 PM   #59
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^^^ Care to link which studies and reports prove that "more guns = less crime"?

I'd also like to see an explanation on why Japan has only about 10 gun homicides per year.

For some reason I don't trust the corporate journalist John Stossel.




Gun control is ineffective when your next-door neighbor sells guns freely.

This is the gun store in Indiana, about 15 minutes from the south side where the majority of guns used in Chicago crimes are sold:



http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...from.html?_r=0







If you give people easy access to people-killing tools, guess what happens?
I cant tell you how many times Ive said or heard " well I wasn't going to kill you but since i have an easy way of doing it what the hell" right before a gun shot.

You guys are messed up, you cant be the only place on earth where getting a gun is "easy" yet you are the only place with "gun crime numbers" so high, which tells me that guns arent the problem, and something else is
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:57 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by chadta View Post
You guys are messed up, you cant be the only place on earth where getting a gun is "easy" yet you are the only place with "gun crime numbers" so high, which tells me that guns arent the problem, and something else is

Income inequality is also a major correlate of homicide rate.

Combine that with the world's easiest access to guns, here's what you get:



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Old 03-05-2013, 02:34 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Blart View Post
If you give people easy access to people-killing tools, guess what happens?
Your graph should really compare overall homicide rates, not just homicides with firearms.

Unless you're making the argument that being shot to death is somehow inferior to a good knifing or whathaveyou.

The murder rate still isn't GOOD for the United States, but this graph is intended to exaggerate more than anything.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:03 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blart View Post
^^^ Care to link which studies and reports prove that "more guns = less crime"?

I'd also like to see an explanation on why Japan has only about 10 gun homicides per year.

For some reason I don't trust the corporate journalist John Stossel.




Gun control is ineffective when your next-door neighbor sells guns freely.

This is the gun store in Indiana, about 15 minutes from the south side where the majority of guns used in Chicago crimes are sold:



http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...from.html?_r=0







If you give people easy access to people-killing tools, guess what happens?
Honest question. Do you believe the government really cares about how many people are killed each year?

So when does confiscation start? Because that's the only kind of legislation that will affect people from being killed. What good is legislation that doesn't include every city, county and state in the US? You said so yourself that someone can just drive 15 minutes and buy what they want. Do you gun grabbers have the guts to attempt that kind of feel good legislation on a nationwide basis? Do you believe cops, federal agents and the military will go door to door and fire against it's own citizens?
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