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Old 03-05-2013, 09:44 AM   #76
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It's something to talk about whether it happens or not.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:49 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by razorwire77 View Post
I am fairly confident that a rotation of Ayers, Wolfe, Malik Jackson, and a potential FA/draft pick could still be pretty effective rushing the passer. This is especially true when you have a top 3 pass rusher in the league Von Miller commanding a double team constantly. It's not going to be the same type of individual production, but still pretty good.

On the other hand, Revis is a once in a decade type player, he's still in his prime and should be a top flight CB for another 3-5 years. He's basically prime Champ Bailey. Champ in his prime probably had slightly better top end speed, but Revis is better at jamming the line of scrimmage. In terms of forcing turnovers, Revis basically shuts down half of the field and would allow our other very good on ball defenders like Champ to ball-hawk and choke up on TE's in the slot. Basically, Champ could play up in run support and take away a ton of the shallow crossing routes and TE drags that teams like New England kill us with. Plus with Revis on the field, you can provide Champ with help over the top with speed receivers as he gets older.

It would suck to lose Doom, but long-term I think Revis gets us closer to the SB. You can find situational pass-rushers in every draft and in FA. Truly top flight CB's?

Woodson in his prime, Champ in his prime, and Revis. He's that good.
I actually agree. I would rather give a healthy Revis all that $$$, than Doom.
And DEN can go get another rookie DE in a very deep draft at the position.
DEN gets younger and out of an overpaid, overhyped players contract.
And they recieve the best CB in the NFL. Pure, shut down corner.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:50 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever View Post
i love the Broncos, but that game was not as close as the final score indicated. Baltimore was in control basically the entire game. Remove a RECORD setting day by Trindon and Baltimore wins by 2 TD's
One of those TDs was an INT by the ratbirds when the Broncos WR mauled but no call for pass interference. The ratbirds definitely got some ref help.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:53 AM   #79
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#1 in Sacks, #3 in pass defense.

If we blow our load dicking around with this facet of the defense while standing pat at MLB and DT, I don't know what to say other than someone's lost their effing mind.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:56 AM   #80
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#1 in Sacks, #3 in pass defense.

If we blow our load dicking around with this facet of the defense while standing pat at MLB and DT, I don't know what to say other than someone's lost their effing mind.
You keep beating this drum, you do understand though that they go hand in hand...right?
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:57 AM   #81
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You keep beating this drum, you do understand though that they go hand in hand...right?
Prolly not.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:58 AM   #82
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Prolly not.
Well, no. It was the same tone I use with my kids when I know exactly who set the living room on fire. I ask, just because I want to see their reaction.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:02 AM   #83
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Is it possible Denver ships a 1st/3rd and keep Doom?
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:03 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by socalorado View Post
I actually agree. I would rather give a healthy Revis all that $$$, than Doom.
And DEN can go get another rookie DE in a very deep draft at the position.
DEN gets younger and out of an overpaid, overhyped players contract.
And they recieve the best CB in the NFL. Pure, shut down corner.
I agree with all of this. But I'm not down with it if we also give up our 1st round pick...
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:05 AM   #85
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You keep beating this drum, you do understand though that they go hand in hand...right?
I totally agree, at least in one direction. Weakening your pass rush is no way to improve coverage. But I tend to think that a ferocious pass rush helps the secondary more than a top-tier secondary helps out the pass rush. If you look at some of the other top sacking teams, you won't see a bunch of elite secondaries.

Mostly though this is an issue of priorities. Do you spend resources on huge glaring holes you saw all year on defense, or on one part that looked a little concerning for part of one game, but otherwise was one of the best in the league?
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:08 AM   #86
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Ayers and a 3rd.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:09 AM   #87
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You mentioned above how you'd be upset if we got Dumervil, but I don't think that his production (sacks) would be hard to replace. It seems like the past 3-5 years, teams have had no problem getting pass rushers in the draft who come in and contribute right away in that regard. However, the # of rookie ready CB's who come in and contribute in such a manner is relatively small.

Champ, Revis, Harris, Bolden and Carter means we are set there for a while. Revis' cap hit gets negated if Dumervil is dished, and we can afford him down the road after Bailey hangs up his cleats and warms up for his HOF induction.

Denver being interested in this move (if they have indeed made an offer) signals to me that despite the depth of this CB class, the Broncos feel it is necessary to had a high quality player to their secondary for the short and long-term benefit of the team.

Given the pass rushers in FA, etc. -- it seems they would rather take a shot there to replace Dumervil and gaining another All-Pro CB instead of bringing in guys who would have a several year learning curve.

At the end of the day, I would be surprised if this happened. I don't think the Jets can get a better offer than Dumervil + 2nd / Dumervil + 3rd. They are getting an impact 3-4 OLB and a high selection. It is probably better than just picks for them.
Name a rookie picked at #28 or later that has contributed as much as Doom did last season.

Like, ever, in league history.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:15 AM   #88
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Speaking of the CB position, apparently Mike Klis keeps referring to Chris Harris as a nickel corner. See this article:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...ds-cb-dt-rb-ol

This prompts speculation about this coming from the Broncos themselves, which prompts further speculation about what it means as far as the draft or FA. Discussion of this, and several other items (such as Vickerson, Bannan, Terrance Knighton, Ahmad Bradshaw, Shonn Greene, the safety position, etc.) in the article linked below.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...p-thrower-lard
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:17 AM   #89
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I totally agree, at least in one direction.
And this is where we will continue to not agree, which is ok. My entire point is, it's not one or the other...it's both, and in both directions.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:17 AM   #90
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I would take gholsten over Revis. SF did not tag him and Schefter is reporting he's gonna be gone from SF. Gholsten is young and would be your cornerstone at safety for a long time. Dude can ball
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:18 AM   #91
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One of those TDs was an INT by the ratbirds when the Broncos WR mauled but no call for pass interference. The ratbirds definitely got some ref help.
I cant find his original post, but Baltimore was in control the entire day? Does he realize that they scored on two LONG plays too? What a dumb argument.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:20 AM   #92
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Doom for Revis makes sense consideing Denver could draft a DE in the first and there are some good FA options. I have mentioned it before I would love Paul Kruger and dumping Dooms salary. I think he could be had at half the price.
Doom for Revis and pick up Kruger?

I'm on board.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:23 AM   #93
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Name a rookie picked at #28 or later that has contributed as much as Doom did last season.

Like, ever, in league history.
Jared Allen maybe?
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:24 AM   #94
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Name a rookie picked at #28 or later that has contributed as much as Doom did last season.

Like, ever, in league history.
Last year was Dumervil's sixth year in the league. He was also a fourth round selection. Why should I compare a rookie's # to a veteran NFL player? You are limiting the scope of your argument to make it harder for me to come up with a rebuttal. Us picking at #28 has nothing to do with this. I am not advocating drafting his replacement at #28 if he is dished in a trade for Revis. Though I do agree that the premium pass rushers are drafted early. There have been some great ones who came later in the draft.

How about Justin Houston? Third rounder. Second year in the league and he had a great year. (OLB 3-4)

How about Geno Atkins? Fourth round selection, third year player -- "In 2012, Atkins recorded 53 tackles, forced 4 fumbles, set a franchise record with 12.5 sacks, and was selected at a starter in the pro bowl as the Bengals made the playoffs for the second consecutive year."

Henry Melton played DE for Texas in college and in a few years, became an extremely productive player moving outside and in on the DL.

Three pro-bowlers selected in the middle rounds off the top of my head in the past several years. This list does not include players who are better run defenders than Elvis, and have a good amount of sacks each year at their position.

You are trying to act like a pass rusher in the NFL isn't replaceable. Over 40 guys in the NFL had 7.0+ sacks last year, 20 with over 10. Stop kidding yourself. Dumervil's replacement (if he is traded) may not have 11 sacks his first year, but he can certainly get there.

And no, I don't think 9 sacks a year would be hard to replace (years he played DE, OLB not figured in because we do not run a 3-4) by rotation or draft choice down the road.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:25 AM   #95
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I would take gholsten over Revis. SF did not tag him and Schefter is reporting he's gonna be gone from SF. Gholsten is young and would be your cornerstone at safety for a long time. Dude can ball
I am down for this. Gholsten and a Moore backfield would be awesome.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:26 AM   #96
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Jared Allen maybe?
That'll work.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:29 AM   #97
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Name a rookie picked at #28 or later that has contributed as much as Doom did last season.

Like, ever, in league history.
Elvis Dumervil
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:39 AM   #98
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Last year was Dumervil's sixth year in the league. He was also a fourth round selection. Why should I compare a rookie's # to a veteran NFL player? You are limiting the scope of your argument to make it harder for me to come up with a rebuttal. Us picking at #28 has nothing to do with this. I am not advocating drafting his replacement at #28 if he is dished in a trade for Revis. Though I do agree that the premium pass rushers are drafted early. There have been some great ones who came later in the draft.

How about Justin Houston? Third rounder. Second year in the league and he had a great year. (OLB 3-4)

How about Geno Atkins? Fourth round selection, third year player -- "In 2012, Atkins recorded 53 tackles, forced 4 fumbles, set a franchise record with 12.5 sacks, and was selected at a starter in the pro bowl as the Bengals made the playoffs for the second consecutive year."

Henry Melton played DE for Texas in college and in a few years, became an extremely productive player moving outside and in on the DL.

Three pro-bowlers selected in the middle rounds off the top of my head in the past several years. This list does not include players who are better run defenders than Elvis, and have a good amount of sacks each year at their position.

You are trying to act like a pass rusher in the NFL isn't replaceable. Over 40 guys in the NFL had 7.0+ sacks last year, 20 with over 10. Stop kidding yourself. Dumervil's replacement (if he is traded) may not have 11 sacks his first year, but he can certainly get there.

And no, I don't think 9 sacks a year would be hard to replace (years he played DE, OLB not figured in because we do not run a 3-4) by rotation or draft choice down the road.
You're the one that said "contribute right away."

Doom was a top ten pass rusher last season in total pressures. Revis, if healthy, would be better than him. But giving up Doom plus picks I'm not entirely comfortable with.

Also, he played standing up this season, and he played with his hand in the dirt when we were a 3-4. Separating out his seasons like that is stupid.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:41 AM   #99
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Jared Allen maybe?
He had 9 sacks his rookie season. That is less than Doom had this season.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:41 AM   #100
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Last year was Dumervil's sixth year in the league. He was also a fourth round selection. Why should I compare a rookie's # to a veteran NFL player? You are limiting the scope of your argument to make it harder for me to come up with a rebuttal. Us picking at #28 has nothing to do with this. I am not advocating drafting his replacement at #28 if he is dished in a trade for Revis. Though I do agree that the premium pass rushers are drafted early. There have been some great ones who came later in the draft.

How about Justin Houston? Third rounder. Second year in the league and he had a great year. (OLB 3-4)

How about Geno Atkins? Fourth round selection, third year player -- "In 2012, Atkins recorded 53 tackles, forced 4 fumbles, set a franchise record with 12.5 sacks, and was selected at a starter in the pro bowl as the Bengals made the playoffs for the second consecutive year."

Henry Melton played DE for Texas in college and in a few years, became an extremely productive player moving outside and in on the DL.

Three pro-bowlers selected in the middle rounds off the top of my head in the past several years. This list does not include players who are better run defenders than Elvis, and have a good amount of sacks each year at their position.

You are trying to act like a pass rusher in the NFL isn't replaceable. Over 40 guys in the NFL had 7.0+ sacks last year, 20 with over 10. Stop kidding yourself. Dumervil's replacement (if he is traded) may not have 11 sacks his first year, but he can certainly get there.

And no, I don't think 9 sacks a year would be hard to replace (years he played DE, OLB not figured in because we do not run a 3-4) by rotation or draft choice down the road.
Agree with some of you post, but the part in bold... you know there is a reason Elway picked Von. He said something along the lines that after having a franshice QB & LT, the next most important thing is the headhunter.

Sorry but not many defensive linemen have had a start to their career like Doom's first 6 years. I can't believe the lack of respect he gets around here. Finding that DE that can put a consistent pass rush on the QBs year and year out is not something done as simple as you imply. Sure he struggles a bit against the run, which is more baffling when talking about replacing him with Freeney as some poster says (he is basically and Older broken down Doom that's even worst against the run). But apart from the 10+ sacks/season he gets you he gets you a consistent push. Go look up how many QB hurries he was accounted for.

Doom is not a part you can replace and expect similar production from. You guys do understand that if he averages 12 sacks/season over the next 3 years and he would be a 100 sack career artist 9 years into his career? Find me a 4th round pick that has done that recently.
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