Sal Pal - Denver in mix for Revis trade

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Sorry, but Revis is no Champ. Longevity is great from a pure professional who values the franchise and honors his contracts. A decade of hearing the Island piss and moan about his contract and holding out every other year doesn't have quite the same level of appeal. At least not for me.

Revis' grief about his contract has nothing to do with his performance on the field. He is an All-Pro caliber player when healthy. This deal is about winning now and longevity down the road for when Champ eventually retires. If we get Revis and if (big if) he stays healthy, we have a guy who can compete at a high level at CB for 5+ years.

[TonyR]

Would it make more sense to just go get Asomugha? I know he's not Revis, but he'd sure as hell be less expensive in both trade comp (assuming he's not flat out cut) and pay comp.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I'd be pissed if Denver finally gets a defense that can rush the passer and them promptly trades one of their two big pass rushers.

I want some continuity and cohesiveness on the defense....Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil playing together again with another year of experience can only be a good thing.

[NFLBRONCO]

I'd like this move alot better if we were a CB away from SB ring. Honestly we are farther then that right now. If it were me if we do this I would move Champ to S for sure. I was expecting Champ to get picked on alot more in 13.


I will say what I always do how many SB's have we been in with Champ? Awesome trade no doubt but, 0 SB's.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Revis' grief about his contract has nothing to do with his performance on the field. He is an All-Pro caliber player when healthy. This deal is about winning now and longevity down the road for when Champ eventually retires. If we get Revis and if (big if) he stays healthy, we have a guy who can compete at a high level at CB for 5+ years.

I guess my point was that "longevity" is basically nothing when it comes to a guy like Revis. He's a year-to-year guy. If he thinks he could make a couple extra million holding out or demanding a trade, he'll do it. If you have to work with that, you do what you have to do. It's just not at all comparable to when we brought in Champ.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by Heyneck

Yeah, put a burner on Champ's side and see how him getting targeted most of the game comes out. Ugly!

Jesus Christ he has one bad game in 5 degree weather and suddenly Champ Bailey is a liability.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by NFLBRONCO

I'd like this move alot better if we were a CB away from SB ring. Honestly we are farther then that right now.

I'm not sure what this means, considering i think we had as good of a chance as anyone last year, but I'd agree getting Revis is a curious move.

[Heyneck]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Sorry, but Revis is no Champ. Longevity is great from a pure professional who values the franchise and honors his contracts. A decade of hearing the Island piss and moan about his contract and holding out every other year doesn't have quite the same level of appeal. At least not for me.

Feel the same way!

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

I'm not sure what this means, considering i think we had as good of a chance as anyone last year, but I'd agree getting Revis is a curious move.

You mentioned above how you'd be upset if we got Dumervil, but I don't think that his production (sacks) would be hard to replace. It seems like the past 3-5 years, teams have had no problem getting pass rushers in the draft who come in and contribute right away in that regard. However, the # of rookie ready CB's who come in and contribute in such a manner is relatively small.

Champ, Revis, Harris, Bolden and Carter means we are set there for a while. Revis' cap hit gets negated if Dumervil is dished, and we can afford him down the road after Bailey hangs up his cleats and warms up for his HOF induction.

Denver being interested in this move (if they have indeed made an offer) signals to me that despite the depth of this CB class, the Broncos feel it is necessary to had a high quality player to their secondary for the short and long-term benefit of the team.

Given the pass rushers in FA, etc. -- it seems they would rather take a shot there to replace Dumervil and gaining another All-Pro CB instead of bringing in guys who would have a several year learning curve.

At the end of the day, I would be surprised if this happened. I don't think the Jets can get a better offer than Dumervil + 2nd / Dumervil + 3rd. They are getting an impact 3-4 OLB and a high selection. It is probably better than just picks for them.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by NFLBRONCO

I'd like this move alot better if we were a CB away from SB ring. Honestly we are farther then that right now.

Not sure how you can say this. If we stand pat, we have a team that went 13-3 and only lost to the eventual champs in double overtime due to horrendous officiating. So, no, we are not that far away at all.

[NFLBRONCO]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

I'm not sure what this means, considering i think we had as good of a chance as anyone last year, but I'd agree getting Revis is a curious move.

Adding Revis would shore up CB spot.
Weaken pass rush
While I think Champ would be an A+ S he's still a B+ CB that will get tested alot more in 13. We'll see how he holds up under more fire.

We need another RB S DT G slot WR WR OLB DE

[Rabb]

Originally Posted by NFLBRONCO

Adding Revis would shore up CB spot.
Weaken pass rush
While I think Champ would be an A+ S he's still a B+ CB that will get tested alot more in 13. We'll see how he holds up under more fire.

We need another RB S DT G slot WR WR OLB DE

I just don't get the assumption that this will weaken the pass rush. I mean sure, if we look at this in a vacuum and say we lose Doom without replacing him at all...ok.

I just cannot fathom that if this happened, we wouldn't replace him somehow. If this happens, it's not an "either/or" situation with secondary versus pass rush. It's going to be both.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by NFLBRONCO

Adding Revis would shore up CB spot.
Weaken pass rush
While I think Champ would be an A+ S he's still a B+ CB that will get tested alot more in 13. We'll see how he holds up under more fire.

We need another RB S DT G slot WR WR OLB DE

There's a difference between "positions that could be upgraded" and true "needs." Every team has the former in the cap era. I'd say most of the positions you mentioned fall into the former category. We will be one the top Super Bowl contenders going into next season if we merely resign our own players and round out the roster through the draft.

[Houshyamama]

Originally Posted by Eldorado

Ayers and a 3rd.

That might not even work on Madden.

[Heyneck]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

Jesus Christ he has one bad game in 5 degree weather and suddenly Champ Bailey is a liability.

Not saying he is a liability. But under that scenario I wouldn't be comfortable with Champ. I saw more than the usual guys get behind him only for the QB to over throw them. Love Champ, he's been the best CB I have ever seen. He is still a Pro Bowl CB, but to say he isn't declining is just flat out denial. He had more than his usual lapses against speedy WR's this year.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by Requiem

You mentioned above how you'd be upset if we got Dumervil, but I don't think that his production (sacks) would be hard to replace. It seems like the past 3-5 years, teams have had no problem getting pass rushers in the draft who come in and contribute right away in that regard. However, the # of rookie ready CB's who come in and contribute in such a manner is relatively small.

Champ, Revis, Harris, Bolden and Carter means we are set there for a while. Revis' cap hit gets negated if Dumervil is dished, and we can afford him down the road after Bailey hangs up his cleats and warms up for his HOF induction.

Denver being interested in this move (if they have indeed made an offer) signals to me that despite the depth of this CB class, the Broncos feel it is necessary to had a high quality player to their secondary for the short and long-term benefit of the team.

Given the pass rushers in FA, etc. -- it seems they would rather take a shot there to replace Dumervil and gaining another All-Pro CB instead of bringing in guys who would have a several year learning curve.

At the end of the day, I would be surprised if this happened. I don't think the Jets can get a better offer than Dumervil + 2nd / Dumervil + 3rd. They are getting an impact 3-4 OLB and a high selection. It is probably better than just picks for them.

If its Doom and a 2 or 3, i can talk myself into it more than I can if its a first, though I'm still not sure how easy it is to replace his sack total. Plus, and yes I know modern surgery is fantastic, but this is a dude who wrecked his knee last year.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by Heyneck

Not saying he is a liability. But under that scenario I wouldn't be comfortable with Champ. I saw more than the usual guys get behind him only for the QB to over throw them. Love Champ, he's been the best CB I have ever seen. He is still a Pro Bowl CB, but to say he isn't declining is just flat out denial. He had more than his usual lapses against speedy WR's this year.

I didnt say he wasnt declining, but its not like its gonna be open season on Champ Bailey if Revis comes.

To me, the Ravens game was an anomoly, not some exposing of all the broncos weaknesses.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

If its Doom and a 2 or 3, i can talk myself into it more than I can if its a first, though I'm still not sure how easy it is to replace his sack total. Plus, and yes I know modern surgery is fantastic, but this is a dude who wrecked his knee last year.

I'm hesitant too because of the injury.

FWIW, there were 20 players in the league with at least 10 sacks last year. 14 of them # DE, 1 at DT (Atkins) and 5 @ OLB.

Then there are guys who had 7-9.5 sacks which are just as many as those who had the top tier.

The league doesn't have a lot of premium cornerbacks. It does have a lot of pass rushers. And I see a lot of rookies, 1st year and 2nd year players on that list.

[DENVERDUI55]

Doom for Revis makes sense consideing Denver could draft a DE in the first and there are some good FA options. I have mentioned it before I would love Paul Kruger and dumping Dooms salary. I think he could be had at half the price.

[BroncoBeavis]

If Doom's such a commodity, why exactly would the Jets pull the trigger on this? It would cost them more money to bring in Doom than if they just let Revis play out his contract. And then they'd still have cash to spare to sign one of those Doom replacements who are apparently growing on trees these days.

If what's being said here is true, basically they could have both Revis and a quality pass rushing DE for not much more than what they'd have to pay for just Doom. So either they see more value in Doom than we do, or there's some serious draft pick compensation in play.

Or this is all senseless speculation. In any case, I'm not a fan. Especially if we're talking 1st or 2nd round picks.

[ScottXray]

I think it is funny that everyone is discussing this like it is almost a done deal.

Frankly, Dumervil does disappear too much in games , and is overpaid also. But he is a potent rush threat. And Revis is a "shut down" corner.
But why would the Jets make this trade, when it is obvious that other teams are probably going to offer them more, in the way of picks, and they get rid of the cap problem they have. Adding Dumervil to their roster will cost them too much for his performance. Unless Denver agrees to pay half or most of his contract, the jets won't want Dumervil, and if we pay half of his salary WE don't get enough cap relief to sign Revis.

This deal aint gonna happen unless we give up WAY too much. I hope our FO isn't that stupid.

[razorwire77]

I am fairly confident that a rotation of Ayers, Wolfe, Malik Jackson, and a potential FA/draft pick could still be pretty effective rushing the passer. This is especially true when you have a top 3 pass rusher in the league Von Miller commanding a double team constantly. It's not going to be the same type of individual production, but still pretty good.

On the other hand, Revis is a once in a decade type player, he's still in his prime and should be a top flight CB for another 3-5 years. He's basically prime Champ Bailey. Champ in his prime probably had slightly better top end speed, but Revis is better at jamming the line of scrimmage. In terms of forcing turnovers, Revis basically shuts down half of the field and would allow our other very good on ball defenders like Champ to ball-hawk and choke up on TE's in the slot. Basically, Champ could play up in run support and take away a ton of the shallow crossing routes and TE drags that teams like New England kill us with. Plus with Revis on the field, you can provide Champ with help over the top with speed receivers as he gets older.

It would suck to lose Doom, but long-term I think Revis gets us closer to the SB. You can find situational pass-rushers in every draft and in FA. Truly top flight CB's?

Woodson in his prime, Champ in his prime, and Revis. He's that good.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

If Doom's such a commodity, why exactly would the Jets pull the trigger on this? It would cost them more money to bring in Doom than if they just let Revis play out his contract. And then they'd still have cash to spare to sign one of those Doom replacements who are apparently growing on trees these days.

Because Dumervil's best season in the NFL came as a 3-4 OLB and would fit in well with the Jets defensive scheme.

And yes, there is a plethora of pass rushers in the NFL. If you saw my link, you would understand that. Most of them are DE. The high profile guys in the 3-4 are the OLB types. Premium on those guys. How many made that list?

[maven]

Originally Posted by Requiem

The trade has to be contingent on Revis getting a long-term deal with the team.

The only way you would do the deal.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by razorwire77

I am fairly confident that a rotation of Ayers, Wolfe, Malik Jackson, and a potential FA/draft pick could still be pretty effective rushing the passer. This is especially true when you have a top 3 pass rusher in the league Von Miller commanding a double team constantly. It's not going to be the same type of individual production, but still pretty good.

On the other hand, Revis is a once in a decade type player, he's still in his prime and should be a top flight CB for another 3-5 years. He's basically prime Champ Bailey. Champ in his prime probably had slightly better top end speed, but Revis is better at jamming the line of scrimmage. In terms of forcing turnovers, Revis basically shuts down half of the field and would allow our other very good on ball defenders like Champ to ball-hawk and choke up on TE's in the slot. Basically, Champ could play up in run support and take away a ton of the shallow crossing routes and TE drags that teams like New England kill us with. Plus with Revis on the field, you can provide Champ with help over the top with speed receivers as he gets older.

It would suck to lose Doom, but long-term I think Revis gets us closer to the SB. You can find situational pass-rushers in every draft and in FA. Truly top flight CB's?

Woodson in his prime, Champ in his prime, and Revis. He's that good.

Great post!