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Old 03-05-2013, 07:38 AM   #26
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So you think our D with Ayers in for Doom & Revis in our secondary isn't netter than what we have at this point?
seriously? you expect a similar pass rush from a Ayers/Miller combo? I love it how people are always ready to bring the torch and burn Ayers, but now that "rumors" of doom getting traded for Revis started it's all turned into: "yeah, no biggie, Ayers can step in and produce the same push that Doom does because we have Miller".

Plus nobody has answered... are we willing to pay this guy 14+ million/year? And how long of a contract? because I bet he will be b****ing about money 2-3 years into that one.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:41 AM   #27
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Jack Del Rio was a huge fan of Robert Ayers when he had the opportunity to coach him at the Senior Bowl when he was still with the Jaguars. I have no doubt that he feels that he can be a quality player for this team moving forward. I'm guessing that it means Dumervil + 2nd for Revis. I would be more okay with it if it was Dumervil + 3rd for Revis. Still would like to avoid the situation all together. Would rather roll the dice with the depth of this DB class than go for a guy who just blew out his knee. Though, I can see where John and Co. understand the importance of having a legit star at corner after Champ retires.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:41 AM   #28
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It works we'll for both teams, so I could see it happening. Doom led the league in sacks as a 3-4 linebacker, and that is what his contract is adjusted for, while Revis provides the Broncos with stability at the Cornerback position long term after Champ retires. Everyone is worried about Revis' contract disputes, but I don't see that as a problem with the Broncos who haven't shied away from paying Champ top money every contractual cycle. The Broncos also know they have options in the market with Paul Kruger, Cliff Avril, Dwight Freeney, and Michael Bennett if they choose to replace Doom with a veteran player.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:43 AM   #29
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Yeah but Von ain't going to have the same impact he had with a very competent pass rusher. A CB can be great and cover "half the field", but just like other teams did with Champ in his prime, you just throw it the other way. Plus with the evolution of the TE in the offensive schemes, you have that many other options to not challenge Revis.

Plus, what you talking about? Champ was a better corner than Revis in his prime. What did that get us? I remember way more Champ saying during those days the importance of having a consistent pass rush.
If they throw to the other side of the field Champ will be there, you know "the guy who was better than Revis in his Prime."

Abraham, Freeney, Kruger, to name a few from free agency..
Not to mention the draft to add another pass rusher..
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:43 AM   #30
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dumervil isn't as effective as some of y'all think. His penalties and run defense are killers...He was super valuable when they had no other means of pass rush, but now with miller they have that pass rush threat. Del Rio only has his guys rush the passer on obvious passing situations and third downs. The Corners have to cover every down, and revis is a more than capable tackler if it ends up being a run.

Chris Harris is the top slot corner in the NFL. Champ and Revis on the two sides and Harris in the slot with Von rushing is a pretty good combination of rush and coverage if you ask me.

Plus, trading dumervil would finance most of revis's contract, so that's not the problem. revis gives you way more for your money than doom.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:44 AM   #31
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i love doom, but weak against run and disappears a lot. I would rather keep doom, great leader/team player, unless we get a RB, SS, MLB in FA and get a long term deal done for Revis and Clady. Also Freeny is older, but pretty much same as doom...maybe a lot cheaper and not a big drop off.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:47 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by cousinal11 View Post
So you think our D with Ayers in for Doom & Revis in our secondary isn't netter than what we have at this point?
I don't see how replacing 63.5 career sacks with 6.5 will improve the D that much.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:47 AM   #33
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If they throw to the other side of the field Champ will be there, you know "the guy who was better than Revis in his Prime."

Abraham, Freeney, Kruger, to name a few from free agency..
Not to mention the draft to add another pass rusher..
Yeah, put a burner on Champ's side and see how him getting targeted most of the game comes out. Ugly!
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:52 AM   #34
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Yeah, put a burner on Champ's side and see how him getting targeted most of the game comes out. Ugly!
Revis would have matched up with Smith, Bailey on Bolden... Had we had Revis this year..
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:52 AM   #35
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I would do it in a heart beat if we are able to sign Freeney. A rotation of Ayers and Freeney plus Revis = better than Doom.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:08 AM   #36
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I love the debate of pass rush versus secondary. We are acting like we have neither when we have both but they each could use some help. I am curious what those against this move would say if we were able to trade Chris Harris as an example for an impact pass rusher (I am just throwing a name out there).

Rev is going to love this thread.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:11 AM   #37
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Revis would have matched up with Smith, Bailey on Bolden... Had we had Revis this year..
And so you go all New England on us and just dump it to the TE's, and get rapped by that position like we did all last year.

Look I am not saying Revis wouldn't be an upgrade, but for the bucks and lack off pass rush it's not.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:11 AM   #38
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...The Broncos also know they have options in the market with Paul Kruger, Cliff Avril, Dwight Freeney, and Michael Bennett if they choose to replace Doom with a veteran player.
^ Yup, this is a pretty important consideration in this whole thing.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:13 AM   #39
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I would do it in a heart beat if we are able to sign Freeney. A rotation of Ayers and Freeney plus Revis = better than Doom.
According to Mediator, who knows a lot about the Colts -- Dwight has nothing left in the tank and is a polarizing figure in the locker room. Don't want!
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:14 AM   #40
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People are seriously underestimating how good Revis is. I'm not thrilled with the idea of Doom and a high round draft pick, but we're talking about the best CB in the game. He's the best press CB I've ever seen. Champ, Revis, Harris would an incredible trio of CB's in a league which is all about passing the football.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:15 AM   #41
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I'm assuming the bold would mean Dumervil? If so, that could make it workable from a financial/cap standpoint since Dumervil has an eight figure cap number. Then, we'd have Ayers - who looked great off the bench last season - to step into his spot. That said, I'd still rather pass. Especially if we'd have to include "a high draft pick" in addition to Dumervil. We were 13-3 and lost to the eventual champs due to horrible, one sided officiating. We don't need to overact by making a move like this. Hold steady and use the draft and 2nd/3rd tier free agents to round out the roster. Don't make a panic move in the hopes that it will be the magic elixir that will put us over the top. Those types of moves generally don't work out.
i love the Broncos, but that game was not as close as the final score indicated. Baltimore was in control basically the entire game. Remove a RECORD setting day by Trindon and Baltimore wins by 2 TD's
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:17 AM   #42
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I think it would be a great trade for Denver if we can get a long term deal sewn up w/ Revis. I love Doom and all but his best value is as a OLB in a 3-4 type defense. He's a great pass rusher, but can get overwhelved in run defense. He recently sat out a season with a torn pectoral and his production has been ok-good since then but he's getting older.

Obviously w/ Revis coming off a torn ACL, there is some risk there but I think the reward outweighs the concern. As Champ has showed us, long term value is always rewarded with secondary players as they have some of the best longevity in the league. Portis has been done for about 5 yrs now and Champ is still having all-pro seasons.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:20 AM   #43
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People are seriously underestimating how good Revis is. I'm not thrilled with the idea of Doom and a high round draft pick, but we're talking about the best CB in the game. He's the best press CB I've ever seen. Champ, Revis, Harris would an incredible trio of CB's in a league which is all about passing the football.
Yep, and based off last year's FA period...my guess is the front office still believes we need some secondary help and will make it a priority.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:21 AM   #44
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I would like to point out that it was pass rush and coverage issues that lost us the playoff game.. The pass rush didn't get home, and coverage was less than average..

The two work hand in hand..

To me, Revis is a game changer. He will completely eliminate a WR. That allows you to schematically do things different with the pass rush if need be. Doom didn't get home against the Ravens, as a result our coverage was exposed. There will be pass rushers in the draft and in FA, but there isn't a Revis Island in free agency, and a draftee would take time to develop into a shut down corner..
This **** is killing me. Lead the league in sacks for the year (as a team) and because of one ****ty game all the sudden it's time to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I blame the scheme just as much as the players for the lack of rush in THAT ONE GAME.

It was quintessential Fox Playoff Pussball. He wanted Flacco to hand his defense the game (like he did the first time), and it didn't work out. Joe was on fire.

#1 in the league in sacks. #3 in passing allowed. "Oh, ****! We lost in double OT to the world champs! We better move our probowl ****ing corner to safety and replace him by trading our second best pass rusher!"

If this goes down, Holy **** is all I'll have to say.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:23 AM   #45
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i love the Broncos, but that game was not as close as the final score indicated. Baltimore was in control basically the entire game. Remove a RECORD setting day by Trindon and Baltimore wins by 2 TD's
This is a dumb retort that I hear far too often. Baltimore wasn't in control other than official aided TD's & drives via penalty. You're assuming that if T. Holliday doesn't return kicks for TD's that Manning doesn't drive us for TD's like he had all season? Take away Denver's flubbed FG, INT returned for TD which was really a PI against Decker, and a hail marry from B-More, where does that leave the game?
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:23 AM   #46
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The trade has to be contingent on Revis getting a long-term deal with the team.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:25 AM   #47
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As Champ has showed us, long term value is always rewarded with secondary players as they have some of the best longevity in the league. Portis has been done for about 5 yrs now and Champ is still having all-pro seasons.
Sorry, but Revis is no Champ. Longevity is great from a pure professional who values the franchise and honors his contracts. A decade of hearing the Island piss and moan about his contract and holding out every other year doesn't have quite the same level of appeal. At least not for me.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:26 AM   #48
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This is a dumb retort that I hear far too often. Baltimore wasn't in control other than official aided TD's & drives via penalty. You're assuming that if T. Holliday doesn't return kicks for TD's that Manning doesn't drive us for TD's like he had all season? Take away Denver's flubbed FG, INT returned for TD which was really a PI against Decker, and a hail marry from B-More, where does that leave the game?
Not just that but everyone assumes if you take of Holliday's scores that we wouldn't have scored on those possessions anyhow. It's a dumb ass argument for sure, because nobody knows.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:28 AM   #49
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This **** is killing me. Lead the league in sacks for the year (as a team) and because of one ****ty game all the sudden it's time to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I blame the scheme just as much as the players for the lack of rush in THAT ONE GAME.

It was quintessential Fox Playoff Pussball. He wanted Flacco to hand his defense the game (like he did the first time), and it didn't work out. Joe was on fire.

#1 in the league in sacks. #3 in passing allowed. "Oh, ****! We lost in double OT to the world champs! We better move our probowl ****ing corner to safety and replace him by trading our second best pass rusher!"

If this goes down, Holy **** is all I'll have to say.
I don't think it is going to be hard to replace what Doom does on the field. He is best suited for a 3-4 OLB. As BPC said, he leaves a lot to be desired against the run game. There are a half dozen FA, along with 5-7 players in the draft who could give us the sack replacement we get with Dumervil. I've always been a fan of Elvis, but this isn't too bad of a deal.

I would be upset if it was our first and Dumervil for Revis.

Hopefully we can get a mid-round pick back from them if we throw in a second. Dumervil + 2nd for Revis + 4th. And trade out of the first in order to get back whatever pick we give up in the process.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:29 AM   #50
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This is a dumb retort that I hear far too often. Baltimore wasn't in control other than official aided TD's & drives via penalty. You're assuming that if T. Holliday doesn't return kicks for TD's that Manning doesn't drive us for TD's like he had all season? Take away Denver's flubbed FG, INT returned for TD which was really a PI against Decker, and a hail marry from B-More, where does that leave the game?
Agree. Multiple times we stopped them and they had drives extended due to penalties, some of which were questionable, and some of which were flat wrong. We also got stopped by penalties at least once, the phantom hold called on a 3rd down dive for a 1st down immediately coming to mind. There were swings in momentum, and I suppose to could argue that Baltimore "controlled" certain parts of the game. But overall it was our game to lose and we did just that.
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