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Old 03-01-2013, 07:39 PM   #26
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Lonestar has not been on nearly as much.. He still is holding onto hope another team coughs up two firsts. Though I think the top 3 LTs would be quality day one starters..
Not Clady level overnight, but certainly ale to handle their own.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:48 PM   #27
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Lonestar has not been on nearly as much.. He still is holding onto hope another team coughs up two firsts. Though I think the top 3 LTs would be quality day one starters..
Not Clady level overnight, but certainly ale to handle their own.
He is currently banned.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:03 PM   #28
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Really? Thats why I saw him on other sites..
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:13 PM   #29
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If you had kept up with previous FA discussions you would instead have remembered that all the doom and gloom via or cap number comes AFTER we tag/sign Clady. This just locked up about half of our cap space in a single move. More will be freed in cuts, maybe some restructures, but the point still remains that this team can't spend like drunken sailors. If they keep Clady they likely have one maybe two name players at best they can afford to sign. Picking the young mid-tier types ready to break out is the more necessary method to fill at least a few holes.
Just this week the cap Jumped from $120.6 Mill Up to $123Mill, that gives us $2.4 mill to play with. We can still redo or cut DJ's number and move him to Mike or the street and save another $5.3mill even if DJ still gets $13 Mil guarenteed.

Then there is the $3.8ish Mill that we could free up by letting KM go or trade. Hell I wouldn't mind seeing McGahee hit the door at the same time as KM saving us another $5mill if you count his cap number as both the Salary and the bonus.

We could have over $10 mill addressed if we cut or redid the contracts of those 3 underacheivers. We would then need to get a guy Like Steve Jackson at RB, draft another later round stud RB, draft a MLB to give competition to Stevie Johnson and Nate Irving, or even DJ. Then maybe go after Revis Hard and if he costs too much go after Woodson (then consider kicking Adams to the curb early and getting his $4mil ($2mil guaranteed and $2mill base off the books) and drafting a young guy to learn behind Woodson for a year.

So to recap,

Restructure DJ and make him play MIKE in 2013 for Vet Min

Trade or let go of McGahee and KM saving about $8.8 which we could use to go after Jackson at RB, keeping Hillman, and Ball and Hopefully the one cut positive yards of JJ who is on the PS. and draft a later round big bodied RB who has vision, can cut and finishes runs by dishing out pain.

Next with the money saved and added to the cap I would go hard after Revis and try to land him to play opposite Champ. Play Harris at Big nickle or switch with Champ or Revis depending on who we are playing for big nickle. We could even consider asking Harris to bulk up and play Safety as Carter is a very good man CB. I would draft another CB or Safety depending on if we get Revis or not.

We could also try to get Albert from kFc and play him at the right side, he would be on the team and able to step in at LT if Clady needs time to get back 100%. Maybe there is a draft pick that is just as good or better we can get cheaper than Albert who can do what we need done. either way we need to get more depth on the OL.

Then all we need to do in the draft is go BPA as they fall, looking for a MLB if one is there, WR to compete against Willis, a Lower round RB who can run between the tackles and protect the ball with the game on the line. And then Look at a DT or even C or G, depending on if they want to move Kuper over to C. If we got a good FA like Albert we could play him at RT and move Franklin inside. Beadles has proved to be an All pro pullling guard in the probowl this year.

I would love to see that happen. Sadly I fear I am dreaming because just before I wrote this I took a handfull of goofballs, nerve, and sleep meds and I am feeling no pain right now. It is getting harder and harder to type...
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:28 PM   #30
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I could see a team or 2 willing to give up 2 firsts for Clady.

Bears being one of them.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:37 PM   #31
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I could see a team or 2 willing to give up 2 firsts for Clady.

Bears being one of them.
Maybe we wouldn't completely blow them this time.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:38 PM   #32
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So it's like a 1 year contract with the guaranteed money all paid up front. You'd think the players would like this too but most of them say they can't stand the franchise tag.
I always wondered this too. I get that they want a long term deal, but those paper deals don't typically pay out their maximum value, and with the franchise tag you're still making double-digit millions of dollars, all guaranteed. Unless you blow all the money, one franchise tag year would set you for life.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:48 PM   #33
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I always wondered this too. I get that they want a long term deal, but those paper deals don't typically pay out their maximum value, and with the franchise tag you're still making double-digit millions of dollars, all guaranteed. Unless you blow all the money, one franchise tag year would set you for life.
Clady will get 10 million (?) from the tag, but if he signed a long term deal similar to Joe Thomas, he could have 45 million guaranteed.

That is why players want the long term deal.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:57 PM   #34
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True, but it's still not a terrible deal to be tagged. Still very highly compensated for one year's work.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:12 PM   #35
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Just this week the cap Jumped from $120.6 Mill Up to $123Mill, that gives us $2.4 mill to play with. We can still redo or cut DJ's number and move him to Mike or the street and save another $5.3mill even if DJ still gets $13 Mil guarenteed.

Then there is the $3.8ish Mill that we could free up by letting KM go or trade. Hell I wouldn't mind seeing McGahee hit the door at the same time as KM saving us another $5mill if you count his cap number as both the Salary and the bonus.

We could have over $10 mill addressed if we cut or redid the contracts of those 3 underacheivers. We would then need to get a guy Like Steve Jackson at RB, draft another later round stud RB, draft a MLB to give competition to Stevie Johnson and Nate Irving, or even DJ. Then maybe go after Revis Hard and if he costs too much go after Woodson (then consider kicking Adams to the curb early and getting his $4mil ($2mil guaranteed and $2mill base off the books) and drafting a young guy to learn behind Woodson for a year.

So to recap,

Restructure DJ and make him play MIKE in 2013 for Vet Min

Trade or let go of McGahee and KM saving about $8.8 which we could use to go after Jackson at RB, keeping Hillman, and Ball and Hopefully the one cut positive yards of JJ who is on the PS. and draft a later round big bodied RB who has vision, can cut and finishes runs by dishing out pain.

Next with the money saved and added to the cap I would go hard after Revis and try to land him to play opposite Champ. Play Harris at Big nickle or switch with Champ or Revis depending on who we are playing for big nickle. We could even consider asking Harris to bulk up and play Safety as Carter is a very good man CB. I would draft another CB or Safety depending on if we get Revis or not.

We could also try to get Albert from kFc and play him at the right side, he would be on the team and able to step in at LT if Clady needs time to get back 100%. Maybe there is a draft pick that is just as good or better we can get cheaper than Albert who can do what we need done. either way we need to get more depth on the OL.

Then all we need to do in the draft is go BPA as they fall, looking for a MLB if one is there, WR to compete against Willis, a Lower round RB who can run between the tackles and protect the ball with the game on the line. And then Look at a DT or even C or G, depending on if they want to move Kuper over to C. If we got a good FA like Albert we could play him at RT and move Franklin inside. Beadles has proved to be an All pro pullling guard in the probowl this year.

I would love to see that happen. Sadly I fear I am dreaming because just before I wrote this I took a handfull of goofballs, nerve, and sleep meds and I am feeling no pain right now. It is getting harder and harder to type...

Man. This is almost Mock status. Except with more details. And less cats......Good read though. Do the sleep meds involve a basement?
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:05 AM   #36
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Just this week the cap Jumped from $120.6 Mill Up to $123Mill, that gives us $2.4 mill to play with. We can still redo or cut DJ's number and move him to Mike or the street and save another $5.3mill even if DJ still gets $13 Mil guarenteed.

Then there is the $3.8ish Mill that we could free up by letting KM go or trade. Hell I wouldn't mind seeing McGahee hit the door at the same time as KM saving us another $5mill if you count his cap number as both the Salary and the bonus.

We could have over $10 mill addressed if we cut or redid the contracts of those 3 underacheivers. We would then need to get a guy Like Steve Jackson at RB, draft another later round stud RB, draft a MLB to give competition to Stevie Johnson and Nate Irving, or even DJ. Then maybe go after Revis Hard and if he costs too much go after Woodson (then consider kicking Adams to the curb early and getting his $4mil ($2mil guaranteed and $2mill base off the books) and drafting a young guy to learn behind Woodson for a year.
Your numbers are off on a large part of that, case in point releasing Moreno would only save $1.7M on the cap and DJ restructured so we don't really know what his cap number might be.

We do have plenty of people we can cut to free up more space, sure, but if we retain our guys that we actually want (Vickerson, Harris, Carter, Colquitt) we're going to need those cuts to have any substantial breathing room at all.

The Broncos aren't in bad shape or looking at cap hell, I'm not suggesting that. The team can definitely make some moves. But this team isn't going to have a ton of cap room either and going after the big name guys will really tie their hands at filling other holes.

We'll be in the lower end of the middle of the pack in free money to spend. The FO can go for one or two magic bullet solutions and hope to fix everything else through the draft and our in-house players getting better. Or the FO can spread that money around, targeting multiple young players and trying to hit on who's ready to break out and who isn't, addressing every problem but none with a definitive upgrade.

The best path all depends on how badly you think we need solutions at:
MLB
CB
S
RB
#3WR
C

If you think all of those need upgrades we won't get it done with name players. If you think that C, S, and #3WR are acceptable as-is then we can go for two name players and a first round selection to answer the other three (just an example, could be that some view MLB, S, and RB as the problem positions, not CB, or any other permutation).
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:20 AM   #37
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Part of me wouldn't be too upset if a team signed Clady.. I know that may sound like a radical Lonestar statement.. But Peyton has seriously worked wonders with horrendous OLines. Peyton's last LT was more of a natural G named Charlie Johnson, who spent the last two years playing GUARD in Minnesota opening up running lanes for AP. Minny signed him to play Guard not LT..

What I'm getting at, is while Clady is a great LT, there are going to be some solid LTs in free agency and the draft depending where we would get compensation picks of course..
There's still free agency and extra ammo to move up in the draft for the likes of Jockel, Fisher, Jones. So while I'm not advocating for or against Clady, my feelings wouldn't be hurt if we lost him..
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:59 AM   #38
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The only players I can recall going for two firsts who were in a franchise tag situation were Joey Galloway (SEA to DAL) and Sean Gilbert (CAR to WAS).

Can anybody else think of any others?

I think the Broncos and Clady will work something out long term though.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:18 AM   #39
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Part of me wouldn't be too upset if a team signed Clady...
No reason to be. Plenty of LTs available in FA. I'd gladly take a slightly lesser LT in FA and two 1st round picks, or a drafted LT and another 1st rounder. IAOFM spelled it all out a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...nt-bruton-back
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:19 AM   #40
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I could see a team or 2 willing to give up 2 firsts for Clady.

Bears being one of them.
Chargers perhaps another possibility...
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:20 AM   #41
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Part of me wouldn't be too upset if a team signed Clady..
Can't really disagree if the price paid for him is two first round picks. Clady's health issues the last few seasons makes giving him a long term deal risky and he wants stupid money. He should have known he was getting tagged when he turned down a deal last off-season worth more per year than the tag had any chance of being. The Broncos save nearly ~$1M by him turning down their offer last year if he plays under the tag this year.

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There's still free agency and extra ammo to move up in the draft for the likes of Jockel, Fisher, Jones. So while I'm not advocating for or against Clady, my feelings wouldn't be hurt if we lost him..
As TonyR pointed out, the free agent OT pool isn't too bad. If Clady does walk I'd like to see the team address the position with either Vollmer or Jake Long. Long is something of a roll of the dice based on health concerns himself, but if we're paying him half of what Clady would get from the tag we're talking about a savings of ~$5M. That is another very good starter we can add via FA.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:30 AM   #42
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I'm more open to Clady leaving getting 2 more #1's with Elway in charge. If it happens great but, doubt it will.

Last edited by NFLBRONCO; 03-02-2013 at 11:32 AM..
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:51 AM   #43
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Can't really disagree if the price paid for him is two first round picks. Clady's health issues the last few seasons makes giving him a long term deal risky and he wants stupid money. He should have known he was getting tagged when he turned down a deal last off-season worth more per year than the tag had any chance of being. The Broncos save nearly ~$1M by him turning down their offer last year if he plays under the tag this year.


As TonyR pointed out, the free agent OT pool isn't too bad. If Clady does walk I'd like to see the team address the position with either Vollmer or Jake Long. Long is something of a roll of the dice based on health concerns himself, but if we're paying him half of what Clady would get from the tag we're talking about a savings of ~$5M. That is another very good starter we can add via FA.
I agree with all of this, which is why I really like the move and these were my thoughts also. I do however think Long is going to want way north of $5 million a year. But there are plenty of LTs available.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:54 AM   #44
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I agree with all of this, which is why I really like the move and these were my thoughts also. I do however think Long is going to want way north of $5 million a year. But there are plenty of LTs available.
Long is likely going to get stuck taking a "get right" deal because he's been injury plagued and mediocre the last two years. Miami not tagging him is a red flag to other teams. I doubt he'll make as much as Vollmer and I can't see anyone going crazy for him either.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:29 PM   #45
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Ted Bartlett at IAOFM thinks the draft would be the better way to replace Clady.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...ing-ryan-clady
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:20 PM   #46
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Ted Bartlett at IAOFM thinks the draft would be the better way to replace Clady.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...ing-ryan-clady
he kind of negates his own argument. if there is all that talent available in free agency why would someone give up 2 first round picks for a tackle when they could just sign one
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:24 PM   #47
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they don't need to screw with the lineup that was successful last year...just add a couple pieces. The one thing they can't afford is putting manning in harm's way
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:26 PM   #48
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Your numbers are off on a large part of that, case in point releasing Moreno would only save $1.7M on the cap and DJ restructured so we don't really know what his cap number might be.

We do have plenty of people we can cut to free up more space, sure, but if we retain our guys that we actually want (Vickerson, Harris, Carter, Colquitt) we're going to need those cuts to have any substantial breathing room at all.

The Broncos aren't in bad shape or looking at cap hell, I'm not suggesting that. The team can definitely make some moves. But this team isn't going to have a ton of cap room either and going after the big name guys will really tie their hands at filling other holes.

We'll be in the lower end of the middle of the pack in free money to spend. The FO can go for one or two magic bullet solutions and hope to fix everything else through the draft and our in-house players getting better. Or the FO can spread that money around, targeting multiple young players and trying to hit on who's ready to break out and who isn't, addressing every problem but none with a definitive upgrade.

The best path all depends on how badly you think we need solutions at:
MLB
CB
S
RB
#3WR
C

If you think all of those need upgrades we won't get it done with name players. If you think that C, S, and #3WR are acceptable as-is then we can go for two name players and a first round selection to answer the other three (just an example, could be that some view MLB, S, and RB as the problem positions, not CB, or any other permutation).
Your right I saw the Cap hit of 3.x mil on KM and assumed it would be erased with a cut/trade. The bonus money must have thrown me.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:49 PM   #49
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they don't need to screw with the lineup that was successful last year...just add a couple pieces. The one thing they can't afford is putting manning in harm's way
EXACTLY!!!!! Denver has a lot of draft picks on the roster. Lets see what Irving, S. Johnson, Siliga, Q, Carter, Moore, Unrein, Beal, J. Johnson, Fannin, Blake, Bolden, T, Carter, Davis, Green, Hunter, Jackson.

These players are all you and all of them could really step up and help this team at a very low cap number. I hope Denver does not overpay for Revis or anyone else that will cost draft picks.

They need to find people they like in the draft and go from there. If they do not think they can get a WR where they want him, go after Welker, If you are worried about drafting a MLB too high go after Ellerbe. But don't give up draft picks and salary cap space for any player.
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