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Old 02-26-2013, 10:09 AM   #426
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Elam's best 40 today was a 4.46 (unofficial) -- which is great. For his size, he should run that. However, he did not look good in the drills compared to those who he was with and the second group of DB was by far much better. Despite his straight line speed in the 40, his movements on the field were not fluid and he had heavy feet. He easily stood out as average compared to those with him on the field. Just my two cents.

The guy is simply not a first-rounder and it would be shameful to select him.
way overblown. he's a good run stuffing safety who will be good in the box with the speed to help recover on a bad angle or missed tackle.
Elam is a SS and you're selecting him to help in the run game and defend in the box. plus he lays the wood which is sometimes a lost trait in safeties today(granted mostly because of the fines)
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:11 AM   #427
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way overblown. he's a good run stuffing safety who will be good in the box with the speed to help recover on a bad angle or missed tackle.
Elam is a SS and you're selecting him to help in the run game and defend in the box. plus he lays the wood which is sometimes a lost trait in safeties today(granted mostly because of the fines)
I'm not drafting a stiff-hipped turd burglar @ #28 who is going to be a box safety. No thank you.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:13 AM   #428
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how the hell did these 40 times get off so bad? Williams from 4.25 to 4.42? Trufant from 4.31 to 4.38, Milliner from 4.31 to 4.37.
The side by side of Williams vs Goodwin showed he was faster then 4.42
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:14 AM   #429
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how the hell did these 40 times get off so bad? Williams from 4.25 to 4.42? Trufant from 4.31 to 4.38, Milliner from 4.31 to 4.37.
There is usually a +/- (usually plus) variation of .05 from unofficial to official times. Some guys had theirs get better, some worse. Hand to hand analysis by scouts will show differently too. Still all good times for them.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:14 AM   #430
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I'm not drafting a stiff-hipped turd burglar @ #28 who is going to be a box safety. No thank you.
Elam is gonna be a very nice safety at the NFL level. i think it will take him 2-3 years to come on but i think he will be very good as a intimidator and helping i shore up the run game.
i'd have no issue at all with that at safety considering the issues at MLB with making plays and stopping the run. it would help out a ton for us.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:14 AM   #431
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way overblown. he's a good run stuffing safety who will be good in the box with the speed to help recover on a bad angle or missed tackle.
Elam is a SS and you're selecting him to help in the run game and defend in the box. plus he lays the wood which is sometimes a lost trait in safeties today(granted mostly because of the fines)
I agree! I'm hoping for Eric Reid in the second.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:16 AM   #432
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Elam is gonna be a very nice safety at the NFL level. i think it will take him 2-3 years to come on but i think he will be very good as a intimidator and helping i shore up the run game.
i'd have no issue at all with that at safety considering the issues at MLB with making plays and stopping the run. it would help out a ton for us.
I respect your opinion, but I do not think he is anything special. Take him in the OM Draft.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:16 AM   #433
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The side by side of Williams vs Goodwin showed he was faster then 4.42
for real, he was like a 4.28 or 4.29 based on that similcam.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:17 AM   #434
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There is usually a +/- (usually plus) variation of .05 from unofficial to official times. Some guys had theirs get better, some worse. Hand to hand analysis by scouts will show differently too. Still all good times for them.
those times are way off though. the similcam comparison to guys who ran similar times to the unofficials show they're 0.02 or less off and yet the officials show 0.05 or worse? that's crazy.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:22 AM   #435
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I'm not drafting a stiff-hipped turd burglar @ #28 who is going to be a box safety. No thank you.
Agree. Elam is a HUGE waste of a 1st round pick.
Other than Philip Thomas possibly going to BALT with the last pick of the 1st round, there is no Safety in this draft worth taking in the 1st.
I see the CBs now as
1A/B Milliner/Trufant
2 Rhodes
3 Poyer
4 Slay
5 Amerson ( Who was reported to be as stiff as a board, couldnt turn his hips to save his life, and should be a safety at the NFL level.)
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:26 AM   #436
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And you would take him @28?
Depends on who is available and what I could get for a trade. Always dependent on the context. There is no #28 without 27 picks before it. Plus, there are no real values on these guys yet. Just a whole bunch of conjecture.

Would I draft him though, absolutely!
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:29 AM   #437
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I respect your opinion, but I do not think he is anything special. Take him in the OM Draft.
for me the safeties stack up like this for guys who will be top 2-3 round candidates.

Kenny Vaccaro
Jonathan Cyprien
Matt Elam
Eric Reid
Phillip Thomas
Shawn Williams
Bacari Rambo
Robert Lester
Shamarko Thomas
Duke Williams
JJ Wilcox

i lean more towards SS types because i think Moore will be fine and that we need a run game helped and hitter over the middle to make teams fear trying to take advantage of the LB corps.

Vaccaro,Cyprien and Reid or more playmaking types that can help in both areas, Cyprien is more of a striker similar to Elam but more explosive and fluid in the hips.
i think for the #28 spot Elam is a really good choice for what he brings and what our needs are.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:37 AM   #438
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Give me some Shamarko Thomas. Is he a 2nd or third rounder? Dude is a little beast.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:58 AM   #439
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Give me some Shamarko Thomas. Is he a 2nd or third rounder? Dude is a little beast.
Shamwowko Thomas.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:00 AM   #440
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I believe just the opposite.
Theres no way in hell Vaccaro goes anywhere near the top ten.
And Elam isnt a 1st rounder either.
Completely disagree.
Regarding Vaccaro, that's fine, but you disagree with basically every analyst in the football world. I haven't found one that doesn't have Vaccaro rated as the top safety and most have him going the top 15 to 20 (top 10 is outside shot, agree with you there). Elam is borderline 1st round based on most projections. Could drop into the 2nd for sure, but I doubt he falls outside the top 40. I haven't seen anyone who rates Thomas among the top 5 safeties available. Don't get me wrong, I like Thomas, but he's not going to be the top safety picked or anywhere close to it.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:04 AM   #441
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I'm not drafting a stiff-hipped turd burglar @ #28 who is going to be a box safety. No thank you.
I can only conclude you haven't watched much of Elam in actual games if that's your opinion of him. Dude can lay the wood and is very good in coverage, makes plays, is constantly around the ball. Only thing Vacarro has over him is superior size. He's easily the 2nd best safety in the draft and we'd be lucky to have him at #28 or later.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:17 AM   #442
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Regarding Vaccaro, that's fine, but you disagree with basically every analyst in the football world. I haven't found one that doesn't have Vaccaro rated as the top safety and most have him going the top 15 to 20 (top 10 is outside shot, agree with you there). Elam is borderline 1st round based on most projections. Could drop into the 2nd for sure, but I doubt he falls outside the top 40. I haven't seen anyone who rates Thomas among the top 5 safeties available. Don't get me wrong, I like Thomas, but he's not going to be the top safety picked or anywhere close to it.
I have seen just as many saying that Vaccarro is a bit overrated, and will not sniff anywhere near the top of the 1st round. Elam has NEVER been considered a true 1st round talent. Some goofy hype about him because hes the same size as Bob Sanders.
I see team needs trumping alot of these Safeties, and there will be a run on them in the 2nd round. Also, the reason i see Thomas going ahead of them is he actually plays faster than he is and is a monster INT machine, that has a knack for getting to the ball. Thats all. Check his stats.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:24 AM   #443
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I can only conclude you haven't watched much of Elam in actual games if that's your opinion of him. Dude can lay the wood and is very good in coverage, makes plays, is constantly around the ball. Only thing Vacarro has over him is superior size. He's easily the 2nd best safety in the draft and we'd be lucky to have him at #28 or later.
preach on brother Inferno, preach on!
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:26 AM   #444
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I can only conclude you haven't watched much of Elam in actual games if that's your opinion of him. Dude can lay the wood and is very good in coverage, makes plays, is constantly around the ball. Only thing Vacarro has over him is superior size. He's easily the 2nd best safety in the draft and we'd be lucky to have him at #28 or later.
You conclude wrong. I'm a diehard Noles fan and am big on ACC country ball. I follow all the big Florida programs (despite Gators not being ACC) closely because of the recruiting proccess associated with high school. I like to see the talent that comes out of the state. I've watched Elam the past several years now and have not been that impressed.

He needs to be paired with a FS who can cover a lot of ground and cover it well because he cannot cover the deep back well. He is a hell of an athlete, but is not fluid in coverage. His hips are stiff (if you saw his combine drills, it would reinforce that) and he takes bad angles. (Hence my heavy foot comment in regards to breaking on balls.) The dude is a big hitter, but he lays the big hits because he is almost ALWAYS one step slow in coverage.

I don't care if he timed well, because he clearly doesn't diagnose his assignments on the field nearly as quickly. Pair that with not taking the right angles and it is recipe for disaster in the NFL. I have a notebook on my DB assessments at home and would gladly share for you instances where I had him red flagged for play in the season.

I don't want Kenoy Kennedy, Jr. on the squad getting flag after flag after flag. I admire his athletic ability, but it merely compensates for a relatively poor skill set. I do like his leadership and love of the game. That cannot be questioned. His coverage abilities definitely can.

He did not perform well in the drills today and I watched it happening live. He was getting outperformed by small school guys I have barely even mentioned who looked much better than him in aspects of his game he desperately needs to improve. I do not see any sense in drafting an in the box safety with the #28 pick. I stand by my assessment of him as a player and will gladly eat crow if I'm wrong if he makes it in the NFL.

I would not roll the dice with having a midget safety try and take on the Jimmy Graham's and Rob Gronkowski's of this league. His overaggressiveness is going to get raped by quality players.

I understand you like him -- and that is fine. I do not. I assume he will follow suit like his brother Abram. As a box safety, he is fine. Being slow to diagnose plays and taking bad angles is a huge ISSUE in the NFL moving forward. You can get by with superior athleticism in college, it takes more than that to be a great pro. Which is why I don't want him in the first.

He is not in my Top 50.

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Old 02-26-2013, 11:29 AM   #445
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I have seen just as many saying that Vaccarro is a bit overrated, and will not sniff anywhere near the top of the 1st round. Elam has NEVER been considered a true 1st round talent. Some goofy hype about him because hes the same size as Bob Sanders.
I see team needs trumping alot of these Safeties, and there will be a run on them in the 2nd round. Also, the reason i see Thomas going ahead of them is he actually plays faster than he is and is a monster INT machine, that has a knack for getting to the ball. Thats all. Check his stats.
I'm familiar with Thomas's impressive stats. The reason he isn't rated higher as a prospect is because of his mediocre speed and athleticism. I like him as well and think he has a chance to exceed expectations as a pro because of his instincts, but my only point of contention is with your statement that he'll be the first safety off the board. There is almost zero chance of that happening. Vacarro will go in the top 20 whether you think he's overrated or not....that's a near lock. He may go higher depending on need, but safety is generally not a highly valued as other positions. And Elam has been moving up boards (Kiper has him #25 on his Big Board, for instance), as he should be. You've never seen him play if you don't understand why anyone would be impressed with him. There's more similarity with Bob Sanders than just size.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:32 AM   #446
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You conclude wrong. I'm a diehard Noles fan and am big on ACC country ball. I follow all the big Florida programs (despite Gators not being ACC) closely because of the recruiting proccess associated with high school. I like to see the talent that comes out of the state. I've watched Elam the past several years now and have not been that impressed.

He needs to be paired with a FS who can cover a lot of ground and cover it well because he cannot cover the deep back well. He is a hell of an athlete, but is not fluid in coverage. His hips are stiff (if you saw his combine drills, it would reinforce that) and he takes bad angles. (Hence my heavy foot comment in regards to breaking on balls.) The dude is a big hitter, but he lays the big hits because he is almost ALWAYS one step slow in coverage.

I don't care if he timed well, because he clearly doesn't diagnose his assignments on the field nearly as quickly. Pair that with not taking the right angles and it is recipe for disaster in the NFL. I have a notebook on my DB assessments at home and would gladly share for you instances where I had him red flagged for play in the season.

I don't want Kenoy Kennedy, Jr. on the squad getting flag after flag after flag. I admire his athletic ability, but it merely compensates for a relatively poor skill set. I do like his leadership and love of the game. That cannot be questioned. His coverage abilities definitely can.

He did not perform well in the drills today and I watched it happening live. He was getting outperformed by small school guys I have barely even mentioned who looked much better than him in aspects of his game he desperately needs to improve. I do not see any sense in drafting an in the box safety with the #28 pick. I stand by my assessment of him as a player and will gladly eat crow if I'm wrong if he makes it in the NFL.

I would not roll the dice with having a midget safety try and take on the Jimmy Graham's and Rob Gronkowski's of this league. His overaggressiveness is going to get raped by quality players.

I understand you like him -- and that is fine. I do not. I assume he will follow suit like his brother Abram.

He is not in my Top 50.
Fair enough, but I completely disagree with your assessment of his coverage skills.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:41 AM   #447
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I can only conclude you haven't watched much of Elam in actual games if that's your opinion of him. Dude can lay the wood and is very good in coverage, makes plays, is constantly around the ball. Only thing Vacarro has over him is superior size. He's easily the 2nd best safety in the draft and we'd be lucky to have him at #28 or later.
Word... I have watched every Gator game for years and this kid is a very, very good prospect. I agree with your comments 100% I would take him and not look back.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:46 AM   #448
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Word... I have watched every Gator game for years and this kid is a very, very good prospect. I agree with your comments 100% I would take him and not look back.
Good enough to go in the second round? Yes.

Good enough to go at #28? No.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:12 PM   #449
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I said it a few months ago.. I would not draft Elam. I like TJ McDonald or even Reid at SS. I think they both project much better there.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:20 PM   #450
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I would consider taking either Robert Alford or Jamar Taylor at #28. They both have the ball skills and speed to be #1 CB's in the NFL.

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