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Old 02-22-2013, 02:31 PM   #51
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Jones is a versatile player, but not worth it at #28 unless you think he is starting right away somewhere on the line for the team.
Req I think Jones would be starting at center by the time training camp is over. It would give us a guy that's strong enough to anchor the middle of the line against the big boys, and is athletic enough to get to the second level when needed. Nix is a future NFL starter. Jones dominated throughout the championship game with a torn ligament. Just another example of his ability.

There are some players who are highly decorated in college because they can dominate college level competition. Then there are the ones like Jones who are highly decorated because they are NFL caliber studs. Without the injury, the Broncos don't get him at 28. With it, Elway might be able to trade down to the upper 2nd and still get his guy.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:19 PM   #52
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I personally would send Kuper his walking papers save his salary and draft a starting G in this draft.
Sounds like a great idea. Suddenly the Broncos may have enough scrilla to bring in Woodson and an impact DT.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:04 PM   #53
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This is good news. I was afraid we would be good.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:24 PM   #54
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I personally would send Kuper his walking papers save his salary and draft a starting G in this draft.
Wow you don't even give him a chance to come back? Not sure you can do that without an injury settlement?

I don't see anyway your way is the smart move. Kuper gets his chance to come back and be one of the 2 best guard on the team, start etc. Now if he ever wasn't the clear cut bst guard when healthy his salary would make him a target.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:25 PM   #55
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I personally would send Kuper his walking papers save his salary and draft a starting G in this draft.
I think this would be a very good move.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:46 PM   #56
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Wow you don't even give him a chance to come back? Not sure you can do that without an injury settlement?

I don't see anyway your way is the smart move. Kuper gets his chance to come back and be one of the 2 best guard on the team, start etc. Now if he ever wasn't the clear cut bst guard when healthy his salary would make him a target.
It has more to do with his salary than anything. To me he isn't a 6 mil a year OG. I would rather have that money on other players and replace him with a bandaid like Moore or Slauson for half the price. I would even roll with a top G out of the draft. Kuper is paid way too much in my opinion. Yes I know his dad posts here but Denver's cap situation is getting up to where it is an issue.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:22 PM   #57
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It has more to do with his salary than anything. To me he isn't a 6 mil a year OG. I would rather have that money on other players and replace him with a bandaid like Moore or Slauson for half the price. I would even roll with a top G out of the draft. Kuper is paid way too much in my opinion. Yes I know his dad posts here but Denver's cap situation is getting up to where it is an issue.
I still think Kuper our best guard when healthy so i wouldnt cut him loose just yet. But i agree its a great draft to grab a starting guard. We are bottom of round 1 so the value you is good IMO. But I like Warford and he is supposedly a 2nd round pick? We could actually draft DT, then OG and really improve the trenches where games are won. Just keep renting vet RBs on the free agent market. There are OG projected in first and 2nd rounds that could compete for a spot on the Broncos starting oline this yr IMO.

If it worked out you would probably part ways with Kuper next yr.

I think broncos love Kuper though and until he shows he isn't coming back they are sticking with him. They won't just cut him.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:07 AM   #58
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It's strange, I mentioned cutting/trading Kuper because of his cap implications and caught serious stuff for it...

I would be very fine with taking Fluker and moving Franklin to Guard. Or I would be fine with taking Cooper/Warford to start at RG.

I would first try to get Kuper on a pay cut and have him compete at LG/C. We are in a short win now window, so I'm not too worried about Walton/Beadles being a reserve. Before the season started, nobody wanted either one to be a starter.

An OLine with Kuper at LG/C has the potential to be pretty special.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:13 AM   #59
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The dude is maxed out physically. Now, he is starting to breakdown. He's pretty close to outlived his usefulness.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:21 AM   #60
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Ankle joint problems are usually chronic (if that's what it is).
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:57 AM   #61
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drafting Jones at 28 would fix potentially one of 3 spots. C,RG or LG.
so ideally he's great value, my guess is he would be a C for us.

it'd be really huge if he came in and took over the C role, i think he has a chance to be a Pouncey type of C. hopefully without the injuries.
Jones wouldn't be my first choice(Montgomery or Floyd would be) but he'd fix some key issues for a cheap price.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:23 PM   #62
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I like the idea of drafting a C or moving Kuper to C and moving Frankin down, then we need to get an RT.

I hate to see Kuper go, I hope his injuries heal up and he is back to 100%, he is a top 5 G when healthy.

Drafting great OLmen is always a good idea no matter what you have on the team. Depth is key. I still think we can find a solid RB later in the draft. MLB? Depends on what they decide to do with DJ.
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Old 02-23-2013, 03:05 PM   #63
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It's strange, I mentioned cutting/trading Kuper because of his cap implications and caught serious stuff for it...

I would be very fine with taking Fluker and moving Franklin to Guard. Or I would be fine with taking Cooper/Warford to start at RG.

I would first try to get Kuper on a pay cut and have him compete at LG/C. We are in a short win now window, so I'm not too worried about Walton/Beadles being a reserve. Before the season started, nobody wanted either one to be a starter.

An OLine with Kuper at LG/C has the potential to be pretty special.
Kuper is everyone's pet around here. You better watch what you say.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:13 PM   #64
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Now that they might actually be considering it though, I don't like the idea of moving Franklin. 1 - This draft is deep at guard, 2 - Beadles better than I thought (Pro Bowl?), 3 - They like Walton okay after all, 4 - Franklin grading out the #2 pass-blocking RT? No, let's keep him there. Draft a guard and hope Kuper rehabs.

I must echo, "cutting Kuper loose," that is some cold-blooded crazy-talk right there.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:45 AM   #65
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Now that they might actually be considering it though, I don't like the idea of moving Franklin. 1 - This draft is deep at guard, 2 - Beadles better than I thought (Pro Bowl?), 3 - They like Walton okay after all, 4 - Franklin grading out the #2 pass-blocking RT? No, let's keep him there. Draft a guard and hope Kuper rehabs.

I must echo, "cutting Kuper loose," that is some cold-blooded crazy-talk right there.
Wouldn't it have to be an injury settlement? Whats the rule on cutting injured players? I just don't see it either. Broncos like Kuper and won't give up on him just yet. Now another yr of being injured, or if he comes back and doesn't play well, then maybe.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:52 AM   #66
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Kuper is everyone's pet around here. You better watch what you say.
Yep I got beat up pretty bad for not being on the Kuper bandwagon. And that was just for not agreeing he was a pro bowl player. I just said i thought for NFL level he was sort of an avg starter.

Still though avg at this level means you have done really well for yourself. He's still when healthy our best guard though. I think we draft a guard, let Kuper heal, and that solves our problem at guard for this yr. I think there are about 4 OG we could look at rounds 2-4 that could help.

I like brian winters and Warford and they could be had after the first round.
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:10 AM   #67
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If Kuper was cut it would accelerate any pro rated bonus money. He didn't end the year on IR, so I don't see why he couldn't be outright released. But we would owe him any bonus money, which would all accelerate to this years cap.

As far as talent is concerned, I think Beadles and Walton and all the OLine members for that matter benefited from the placebo known as the PM effect. Because those two are the weak links, I would have no issue with replacing Kuper at LG/C.

I also have no issue with using the non exclusive tag on Clady, getting outbid by say a team like Arizona/San Diego and using their first round pick on that stud Lane Johnson.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:53 AM   #68
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There are some good RT in this class, but if the Broncos are doing their homework they should see the treasure trove of OG available in this class. Draft one to be Kuper's replacement and after next season (if he doesn't get better) send him packing.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:35 AM   #69
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I think there's too much pigeon-holing of Barrett Jones in here ... over and over calling him "versatile" as if he's 'Jack of All, Master of None.' and I think that's pretty wrong.

He was named All-America three years running (at 3 positions), and he won both a Rimington and an Outland. So he didn't just play three positions, he was the best in the country at each.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:07 AM   #70
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So if we move Franklin to guard this year, what becomes of Beadles/Kuper? Beadles just made the pro-bowl, so I can't see him getting demoted and he has shown consistent growth the past two seasons.

The only thing I can envision is the release of Kuper which is sad, but not surprising considering his huge health concerns. Apparently the Broncos are preparing to move on from Kuper. If so, that bumps RT to the top of the priority list.

What is the cap hit/savings if we release Kuper?
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:26 AM   #71
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I think there's too much pigeon-holing of Barrett Jones in here ... over and over calling him "versatile" as if he's 'Jack of All, Master of None.' and I think that's pretty wrong.

He was named All-America three years running (at 3 positions), and he won both a Rimington and an Outland. So he didn't just play three positions, he was the best in the country at each.
I'll bet you $20 he isn't selected in the Top 40.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:47 AM   #72
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I'll bet you $20 he isn't selected in the Top 40.
Can't bet money right now, I'm saving up to buy a present for TheReverend.

But I'll take the bet for a couple beers when I see you ... so 9th selection 2nd round or later ... you win. Fair enough.

Usually I use my 'Leinart-Bush Logic' on guys like Jones ... that is, players who excel on great teams are overrated. But this one's different ... 3 All-Americas, an Outland AND a Rimington? So I'll take yer bet and yer gonna regret he's the best who ever ... was picked #28
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:57 AM   #73
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Sounds good to me, Buff. Hope all is well with ya.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:23 AM   #74
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So if we move Franklin to guard this year, what becomes of Beadles/Kuper? Beadles just made the pro-bowl, so I can't see him getting demoted and he has shown consistent growth the past two seasons.

The only thing I can envision is the release of Kuper which is sad, but not surprising considering his huge health concerns. Apparently the Broncos are preparing to move on from Kuper. If so, that bumps RT to the top of the priority list.

What is the cap hit/savings if we release Kuper?
Whatever his salary is this year minus any remaing bonus money. I wouldn't mind reworking Kuper's contract and putting him at Center. I still think he upgrades Beadles at LG.. I think that's a placebo effect of PM. In fairness Charlie Johnson looked like a stud LT for PM.. He was a LG in Minny the past two years..Clady may also help Beadles look better, especially in pass protection.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:34 AM   #75
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Whatever his salary is this year minus any remaing bonus money. I wouldn't mind reworking Kuper's contract and putting him at Center. I still think he upgrades Beadles at LG.. I think that's a placebo effect of PM. In fairness Charlie Johnson looked like a stud LT for PM.. He was a LG in Minny the past two years..Clady may also help Beadles look better, especially in pass protection.
From what I remember, Beadles looked pretty good with Tebow and Clady wasn't 100% that year either.
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