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Old 02-21-2013, 10:19 PM   #51
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A little lengthy but a good video none the less.

A bit long? How about a summary. I'll admit, I watch that show. I think most of it is a bit far fetched but they have some interesting theory's. If there was any time in history I could go back to, it'd be during the time the Egyptians constructed the pyramids. Perfectly constructed. It'd be cool to know how they did it without the technology we have today.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:16 AM   #52
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Nope. It's like a fat person who can lose 100 pounds easy but when somebody in shape wants to lose that last 10 pounds it's a MF'er. hahaha


Seriously though, who knows what will happen. The 2 main things we need to master, IMO, are fusion and magnetic fields. Fusion for the energy to propel you through space at light speed and the magnetic fields to protect you from radiation and micro asteroids. You've got to be able to generate pseudo gravity, atmospheric pressure, water generation, food supply. And you've got roughly a few million years to get it done because our Sun will most likely be going into Red Giant phase by then.

I love this crap man, one of my favorite past times. We should have a sticky all offseason long with fun discussions on this topic.
This may sound defeatist, but we as a species have nothing to fear from the sun. By the time the sun kills off all life on earth we will either have moved elsewhere or destroyed every opportunity of ever going anywhere ourselves. We have all the resources we need.

Fusion would definitely be a good power source. Magnetic fields are not the only option for radiation protection, electronically charged shielding may be a lot better. Fake gravity can be done by making a rotating vessel, protection against debris, you are probably going to have to go low-tech with a Titanic like solution, compartmentalize and accept that if there is an impact you may take casualties, so make sure you have very high redundancy. Water generation is trickier, you would need to bring a lot of water from the outset and you would need to recycle like crazy, so you would need to purify urine and bathing would be a thing of the past. Food is a bit easier, it is much more compactable than water and diets that are very high nutrients can be devised.

I think the best option of going far (out of solar system) would be to create either flotillas of smaller ships or a few bigger ships so groups of 50.000 to 100.000 can go together, that would leave room for redundancy and provide enough genetic variance to avoid inbreeding problems among descendants.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:34 AM   #53
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Someone had this up on FB a while back pretty cool 3 minute vid.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:41 AM   #54
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Nope. It's like a fat person who can lose 100 pounds easy but when somebody in shape wants to lose that last 10 pounds it's a MF'er. hahaha


Seriously though, who knows what will happen. The 2 main things we need to master, IMO, are fusion and magnetic fields. Fusion for the energy to propel you through space at light speed and the magnetic fields to protect you from radiation and micro asteroids. You've got to be able to generate pseudo gravity, atmospheric pressure, water generation, food supply. And you've got roughly a few million years to get it done because our Sun will most likely be going into Red Giant phase by then.

I love this crap man, one of my favorite past times. We should have a sticky all offseason long with fun discussions on this topic.
Not a few million. 1-3 billion. The earth will be uninhabitable somewhere in the gradual warming phase.

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Old 02-22-2013, 09:43 AM   #55
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This may sound defeatist, but we as a species have nothing to fear from the sun. By the time the sun kills off all life on earth we will either have moved elsewhere or destroyed every opportunity of ever going anywhere ourselves. We have all the resources we need.

Fusion would definitely be a good power source. Magnetic fields are not the only option for radiation protection, electronically charged shielding may be a lot better. Fake gravity can be done by making a rotating vessel, protection against debris, you are probably going to have to go low-tech with a Titanic like solution, compartmentalize and accept that if there is an impact you may take casualties, so make sure you have very high redundancy. Water generation is trickier, you would need to bring a lot of water from the outset and you would need to recycle like crazy, so you would need to purify urine and bathing would be a thing of the past. Food is a bit easier, it is much more compactable than water and diets that are very high nutrients can be devised.

I think the best option of going far (out of solar system) would be to create either flotillas of smaller ships or a few bigger ships so groups of 50.000 to 100.000 can go together, that would leave room for redundancy and provide enough genetic variance to avoid inbreeding problems among descendants.
The water thing can be helped, by dragging meteors along with us in our convoy of ships. Also, they've shown that water is more abundant in the universe then previously thought. We could stop off nearby planets that had ice and extract the water. We would just have to have some monster sized floating tankers in our convoy

I honestly think before we would be taking long space travel, millions of years from now most likely, I think humans will tweak their DNA and you would probably see hybrid humans in the future better suited for long space travel.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:47 AM   #56
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CNN has an article saying that the dude who went to the ISS in 2001 (some rich guy) is having a 2018 expedition to Mars that they want to complete in ~ 500 days or so.

BroncoSteven, you have been nominated to represent the Mane. You are gonna be an astronaut buddy!
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:54 AM   #57
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Not a few million. 1-3 billion. The earth will be uninhabitable somewhere in the gradual warming phase.

It says right there on the illustrationg "approx". Not all G type stars live exactly 14 billion years. Some can be shorter, say 10-12 billion years. There's no real way to say how much longer we have until the Sun starts heating up. It could be a few million, it could be a few billion. Better to estimate the lower side of things to be on the safe side.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:21 PM   #58
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CNN has an article saying that the dude who went to the ISS in 2001 (some rich guy) is having a 2018 expedition to Mars that they want to complete in ~ 500 days or so.

BroncoSteven, you have been nominated to represent the Mane. You are gonna be an astronaut buddy!
I would rather be the Flight Director. My body would hold up getting to orbit much less the moon.

Managing a mission like that from the Earth would be awesome, if just as demanding.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:36 PM   #59
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This may sound defeatist, but we as a species have nothing to fear from the sun. By the time the sun kills off all life on earth we will either have moved elsewhere or destroyed every opportunity of ever going anywhere ourselves. We have all the resources we need.

Fusion would definitely be a good power source. Magnetic fields are not the only option for radiation protection, electronically charged shielding may be a lot better. Fake gravity can be done by making a rotating vessel, protection against debris, you are probably going to have to go low-tech with a Titanic like solution, compartmentalize and accept that if there is an impact you may take casualties, so make sure you have very high redundancy. Water generation is trickier, you would need to bring a lot of water from the outset and you would need to recycle like crazy, so you would need to purify urine and bathing would be a thing of the past. Food is a bit easier, it is much more compactable than water and diets that are very high nutrients can be devised.

I think the best option of going far (out of solar system) would be to create either flotillas of smaller ships or a few bigger ships so groups of 50.000 to 100.000 can go together, that would leave room for redundancy and provide enough genetic variance to avoid inbreeding problems among descendants.
I think our best option for long term space travel would be capturing a couple nice sized asteroids, get them rotating fast enough for gravity, hollow them out for living space. An ideal one would have lots of ice on/in it already. Use the excavated material to manufacture tools and possibly even metal/mud sheets that form bulkheads. I would capture a couple asteroids and get them rotating around the main "ship". Attach Fission and ION propulsion to the main asteroid and smaller chemical based engines to the "resource" asteroids to keep them orbiting properly etc... Get everything spinning the right way, allow gravity to keep it all together then propel the whole mass using the main ships engines. You could have chemical engines to alter course and get the mass moving, then use a combo of Fission and ION engines to get fast over time. Not sure how big the main asteroid would need to be to keep the other smaller resource asteroids in tow as it gains speed. That would be a lot of math for people smarter than me.

As far as radition shielding the rock and ice from the asteroid would be the major protection and we could store the liquid water (both clean and dirty tanks) around the sleeping and or living quarters, places where the crew would spend the majority of their time. I have read that water is the best or one of the better shields for cosmic radiation, at least that is what they are looking to do for a trip to Mars.

I think for long term manned missions and habitations we need to look at inflatable fabrics that are extremely strong, stuff made of Kelvar that can be lifted into space then expanded to provide working/living space. A hollowed out asteroid that has a blown up Kevlar type shell. Think pop up camper type stuff but more reliable.

Just a quick thought in response to what Glynden said.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:09 PM   #60
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A bit long? How about a summary. I'll admit, I watch that show. I think most of it is a bit far fetched but they have some interesting theory's. If there was any time in history I could go back to, it'd be during the time the Egyptians constructed the pyramids. Perfectly constructed. It'd be cool to know how they did it without the technology we have today.
Aliens didn't help create anything. People did.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:16 PM   #61
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Just a quick thought in response to what Glynden said.
Need to colonize moons and planets in our solar system. Mine them and build a network going back and forth(hey maybe a vacation one day). Slowly build out and continue to develop more technology for space travel. I think eventually we should send men/women on a one way mission to explore other worlds and beam back data, and possibly starting a colony somewhere else in the universe.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:25 AM   #62
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Not a few million. 1-3 billion. The earth will be uninhabitable somewhere in the gradual warming phase.

ITS MAN MADE GOLBAL WARMING!

Oh wait this is real science not global warming myth.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:26 AM   #63
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Not a few million. 1-3 billion. The earth will be uninhabitable somewhere in the gradual warming phase.

Yeah I was going to see it won't happen in a million. They can estimate the life of the sun and the amount of fuel left relatively accurately since it's right there. It will be at least a billion. As for if the Earth will be uninhabited by then, I estimate we will be so advanced as a species, provided we haven't killed ourselves, that we'll be able to do whatever we want with our Earth long before the warming phase.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:44 AM   #64
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ITS MAN MADE GOLBAL WARMING!

Oh wait this is real science not global warming myth.

I was gonna post the same thing. The sun clearly has some of those evil Capitalists on it, otherwise it would not go through a warming phase. If the sun was solely populated with the good people, aka the democrats and liberals of course, it would stay at the perfect temperature for all of eternity and everybody would be kind to each other and all sing Cumbaya. Somehow technology and industry would never be needed because all necessities of life and progress would simply manifest themselves, thanks to the democrats.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:55 AM   #65
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On all the other planets surrounding all the other stars, the refereees in the playoffs are fair unbiased creatures and The Broncos won every other game in the universe that day. In addition, since those societies are fair and just, ray lewis was in prison in every one of them for what he did in the past. We are on the only planet in the entire Universe where the Broncos were hosed that day.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:50 PM   #66
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Need to colonize moons and planets in our solar system. Mine them and build a network going back and forth(hey maybe a vacation one day). Slowly build out and continue to develop more technology for space travel. I think eventually we should send men/women on a one way mission to explore other worlds and beam back data, and possibly starting a colony somewhere else in the universe.
Yep, we have to take baby steps right here in our own solar system with Earth as vacation, resting spot. Long range exploration is only viable with robotics and such. Once data is received from those sources it will be determined if it's worth it to send humans.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:26 PM   #67
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Need to colonize moons and planets in our solar system. Mine them and build a network going back and forth(hey maybe a vacation one day). Slowly build out and continue to develop more technology for space travel. I think eventually we should send men/women on a one way mission to explore other worlds and beam back data, and possibly starting a colony somewhere else in the universe.
I agree! So do some of the richest people on the planet.

Planetary Resources and another less funded company DSI are launching ventures to mine Asteroids. Imagine hitting on an Asteroid that is composed of gold and Platinum among other heavier metals?

We don't **** where we eat, why should we mine where we live?

Set up bases on the moon, and the moons of the gas giants and mine the **** out of them!
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:28 PM   #68
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Yep, we have to take baby steps right here in our own solar system with Earth as vacation, resting spot. Long range exploration is only viable with robotics and such. Once data is received from those sources it will be determined if it's worth it to send humans.
Yep, Just look at the data Voyagers are still sending out 30 years later!

No reason we couldn't solar manned missions though, we need to learn to walk in space in reach of home.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:32 PM   #69
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Yeah I was going to see it won't happen in a million. They can estimate the life of the sun and the amount of fuel left relatively accurately since it's right there. It will be at least a billion. As for if the Earth will be uninhabited by then, I estimate we will be so advanced as a species, provided we haven't killed ourselves, that we'll be able to do whatever we want with our Earth long before the warming phase.
The other factor is the wobble of the Earth on the axis. I live where a huge glacier once stood that carved the great lakes. I really think the roation of Earth's axis impacted the ice ages and the recent heat up. Does CO2 play a big part in the warm up? Yes! Is it all man made? Nope, can we control it? Nope.

I think reducing CO2 emmissions is just plain common sense. They have proof that the Earth has gone through cycles of heat and cold throughout the millienia(sp?)
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:18 PM   #70
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A bit long? How about a summary. I'll admit, I watch that show. I think most of it is a bit far fetched but they have some interesting theory's. If there was any time in history I could go back to, it'd be during the time the Egyptians constructed the pyramids. Perfectly constructed. It'd be cool to know how they did it without the technology we have today.
I'm suprised The History Channel even allows "Ancient Aliens" to be a show. It's so filled with flaws and questionable sources (and I'm being kind) that it's really a joke.

Watch that youtube vid or go to the website http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/

The History Channel should be called The Fictional History Channel based on this Ancient Aliens program/series.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:50 PM   #71
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I'm suprised The History Channel even allows "Ancient Aliens" to be a show. It's so filled with flaws and questionable sources (and I'm being kind) that it's really a joke.

Watch that youtube vid or go to the website http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/

The History Channel should be called The Fictional History Channel based on this Ancient Aliens program/series.
This history channel is full of questionable "History" material. Though this season's Ax Men has been very compelling for staged reality TV
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:40 PM   #72
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ITS MAN MADE GOLBAL WARMING!

Oh wait this is real science not global warming myth.
We're having a nice discussion about space and somebody's just got to put their political spin on it somehow someway. Does everything you do throughout your day have to revolve around a political view of something. Can't you just, for a moment, give it a rest. Enjoy the topic, leave the politics out of it. Thank you.


Steven, loved your thinking out of the box on the asteroid ship. I don't think the rotation of it to provide gravity would really work though. Even the largest asteroid would still be too small for it to work correctly. It's not just the earth spin that creates the gravity we are used to, it's the mass of the planet as well. I think with an asteroid, to create gravity equal to what we feel on earth, you would have to make it spin quite fast and relative to the mass of the asteroid, I would think it would feel like awkward gravity. It would be a cool thing for them to test out though. Alot of that theory sounds good, such as the asteroid having water, protection from small particles and radiation.


And last but not least - to our global warming is a hoax gentleman, forget about the fact you don't believe greenhouse gases are heating up the planet. Don't you think it's still a good idea to create less toxic fumes in the air so we have cleaner air to breath. Haven't you seen those images of the lungs of people who have lived their entire lives in a big city vs those who have lived in the rural areas. It's quite a difference. It's like looking at a person who smoked and one who has not. I for one don't wish to breath fossil fuel air as much as I can help it. But there are so many other reasons why we need to look to cleaner more modern fuels and energy's. What, do you think we're all going to travel the galaxy on oil and gasoline, hahahaha.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:21 AM   #73
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We're having a nice discussion about space and somebody's just got to put their political spin on it somehow someway. Does everything you do throughout your day have to revolve around a political view of something. Can't you just, for a moment, give it a rest. Enjoy the topic, leave the politics out of it. Thank you.


Steven, loved your thinking out of the box on the asteroid ship. I don't think the rotation of it to provide gravity would really work though. Even the largest asteroid would still be too small for it to work correctly. It's not just the earth spin that creates the gravity we are used to, it's the mass of the planet as well. I think with an asteroid, to create gravity equal to what we feel on earth, you would have to make it spin quite fast and relative to the mass of the asteroid, I would think it would feel like awkward gravity. It would be a cool thing for them to test out though. Alot of that theory sounds good, such as the asteroid having water, protection from small particles and radiation.


And last but not least - to our global warming is a hoax gentleman, forget about the fact you don't believe greenhouse gases are heating up the planet. Don't you think it's still a good idea to create less toxic fumes in the air so we have cleaner air to breath. Haven't you seen those images of the lungs of people who have lived their entire lives in a big city vs those who have lived in the rural areas. It's quite a difference. It's like looking at a person who smoked and one who has not. I for one don't wish to breath fossil fuel air as much as I can help it. But there are so many other reasons why we need to look to cleaner more modern fuels and energy's. What, do you think we're all going to travel the galaxy on oil and gasoline, hahahaha.

Some of the posts that turned the nice pictures discussion into space travel and colonization mentioned how we are messing up our own planet and will need to find somewhere else to go if not careful. IMHO that puts things right in the political zone as it mirrors what we have shoved in our faces by the media 24-7.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:29 PM   #74
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The other factor is the wobble of the Earth on the axis. I live where a huge glacier once stood that carved the great lakes. I really think the roation of Earth's axis impacted the ice ages and the recent heat up. Does CO2 play a big part in the warm up? Yes! Is it all man made? Nope, can we control it? Nope.

I think reducing CO2 emmissions is just plain common sense. They have proof that the Earth has gone through cycles of heat and cold throughout the millienia(sp?)
As a NASA enthusiast, you of all people have greater access to the scientific data behind the theoretical evidence regarding global warming.



http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/iceco...ok/vostok.html


If climate changes naturally over time, why isn't the current warming just another natural cycle?

The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide and methane to higher levels than at any point during the last 650,000 years. Scientists agree it is very likely that most of the global average warming since the mid-20th century is due to the human-induced increases in greenhouse gases, rather than to natural causes.

While natural variations have altered the climate significantly in the past, it is very unlikely that the changes in climate observed since the mid-20th century can be explained by natural processes alone.

http://climate.nasa.gov/climatechangeFAQ#Q1
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:55 PM   #75
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As a NASA enthusiast, you of all people have greater access to the scientific data behind the theoretical evidence regarding global warming.



http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/iceco...ok/vostok.html


If climate changes naturally over time, why isn't the current warming just another natural cycle?

The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide and methane to higher levels than at any point during the last 650,000 years. Scientists agree it is very likely that most of the global average warming since the mid-20th century is due to the human-induced increases in greenhouse gases, rather than to natural causes.

While natural variations have altered the climate significantly in the past, it is very unlikely that the changes in climate observed since the mid-20th century can be explained by natural processes alone.

http://climate.nasa.gov/climatechangeFAQ#Q1
I agree we need to address the man made CO2 issues. I have seen the data and agree that man is contributing to the issue but again I point to the fact that at one point a long time ago I would be living on top of a Glacier.

CO2 is an issue we need to address but if you look at other data they have gathered from the Ice at the poles they have found periods of warming and cooling, before the industrial revolution. I think the Earth has been on a warming trend since the last little ice age back in the middle ages.

The CO2 spike is us for sure and it is something we need to reduce quickly or find a new place to live but it can be addressed quickly if we invest in scrubbing it from the enviroment and regulate abusers. We have made some strides already.

When I lived in Denver back in the early 70's Denver had some of the worst air pollution, to the point where my dad, who had Asthma, had to stay in doors and or wear a mask. I believe it is much better as each time I have been back over the years they don't mention it in the news, it is something we can address quickly. Other towns like LA have done the same things, and we cleaned up the Cuyohoga(sp?) river in Ohio that once caught fire. With proper regulations we can turn this around. I am worried about things we can't control. We live on a very active planet that vary's it's spin on it's axis. We can't control stuff like that which is why space flight is in our best interest if we want to stay alive in this universe.
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