The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2013, 07:02 AM   #26
Lestat
Oreo Lucian Rockefeller
 
Lestat's Avatar
 
Say what again! I dare you!

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 7,717
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalorado View Post
Both Lacy and Bernard are really good. And Bernard is just a freak, electric playmaker. Ultimately, i would love to see Bernard gain about 7 lbs, and still be as fast, and turn into a 3-down RB. I have become very interested in the possibility of Bernard in the DEN offense.
However, i dont think DEN will spend a really high pick on the RB position. Just my 2 cents.
i think after the issues we've had getting the run game fully going and being consistent we will indeed take a RB in the top 2 rounds.
John Fox loves a running game and Elway knows that a potentially dominant running game is key for a aging QB.
the real issue is where do they rank the RB's value wise.
Lestat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 07:09 AM   #27
elsid13
Lost In Space
 
elsid13's Avatar
 
Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 19,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
i think after the issues we've had getting the run game fully going and being consistent we will indeed take a RB in the top 2 rounds.
John Fox loves a running game and Elway knows that a potentially dominant running game is key for a aging QB.
the real issue is where do they rank the RB's value wise.
I think you get the same value out running backs in rounds 3 and 4 as you get in rounds 1-2 of this draft. The value of this draft appears to be in Defense line, OGs Corners and WRs. That were you focus early and look for steal in the runner later.
elsid13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 07:37 AM   #28
SlyEli
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
Bernard is gonna be a beast in the NFL, but if you want to solve that issue in house, just run Holliday on reverses
I agree completely, I was a big advocate all season for getting Holliday involved in the offense. He played a couple games but only as a decoy. They may not have trusted him with the ball in his hands yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalorado View Post
To me, in the Manning offense, DEN needs a guy who can play 3 downs, and make the opposing defense have to account for him for all 3 downs.
Stepfan Taylor has been doing it for 3 year now, and is very good at all 3.
The STAN offense is just a fantastic system to draft from, and Taylor fits what DEN needs perfectly. Gillisee is also very good at all 3 too.
But i think the NFL is different now than when Faulk was in the league. There aren't many true number one backs anymore. You have to find a group of guys that is good at a particular thing, like the thunder lightning combos of the giants (jacobs-bradshaw) and niners (gore-L.James). I'm not sold on Taylor bringing more to the table than McGahee. I think McGahee is more elusive laterally and an equally, if not more tough runner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Not mentioning Le'veon Bell out of Michigan State is a crime. The guy absolutely punishes defenders and not only is a downhill runner, but does well side to side and outside the tackles. He has shed weight (was 240 in college) for the combine looking to add more speed and agility. He can also catch too. I compare him to Michael Bush, but a better receiver than he is. Would be an excellent fit for this offense. Just the kind of thunder we need to Hillman's lightning.
I'm gonna watch some more tape of him now. All I really remember of him is his hurdles earlier in the season, but he seems like a heckuva athlete for his size. I had no idea he was that big. He seems like a delanie walker h-back type at that size. edit: he's a beast. And he loves that hurdle move. I like the elusiveness. Why is he so lowly rated?

I don't have much faith in Lacy. He was so successful in college because he was bigger than everyone, an NFL running back playing in college. When he gets to the NFL and everyone is bigger, stronger, faster, I don't see him being as successful. He's not the as good as Ingram was, and Ingram hasn't panned out. There's way better value in the middle rounds.

Last edited by SlyEli; 02-22-2013 at 07:43 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 08:03 AM   #29
cmhargrove
Is this thing on???
 
cmhargrove's Avatar
 
Travis Henry's love child...

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 6,710

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Hillis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Not mentioning Le'veon Bell out of Michigan State is a crime. The guy absolutely punishes defenders and not only is a downhill runner, but does well side to side and outside the tackles. He has shed weight (was 240 in college) for the combine looking to add more speed and agility. He can also catch too. I compare him to Michael Bush, but a better receiver than he is. Would be an excellent fit for this offense. Just the kind of thunder we need to Hillman's lightning.
+1

I am 100% on the Bell train. If I could have any RB from this year's draft on our team, it would be him. Landing him in the third round would be a total coup. He has all the tools we need, and will make our run game significantly more effective.

I'll throw out another name of a very solid player that can be had in rounds 3-5. Joseph Randle from Oklahoma State. He's a very productive back that plays with power and speed. He could be a solid 1-2 punch with Knowshon (which I think ended the season pretty strong).
cmhargrove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 08:05 AM   #30
socalorado
Ring of Famer
 
socalorado's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,291
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elibroncofan View Post
I agree completely, I was a big advocate all season for getting Holliday involved in the offense. He played a couple games but only as a decoy. They may not have trusted him with the ball in his hands yet.



But i think the NFL is different now than when Faulk was in the league. There aren't many true number one backs anymore. You have to find a group of guys that is good at a particular thing, like the thunder lightning combos of the giants (jacobs-bradshaw) and niners (gore-L.James). I'm not sold on Taylor bringing more to the table than McGahee. I think McGahee is more elusive laterally and an equally, if not more tough runner.



I'm gonna watch some more tape of him now. All I really remember of him is his hurdles earlier in the season, but he seems like a heckuva athlete for his size. I had no idea he was that big. He seems like a delanie walker h-back type at that size. edit: he's a beast. And he loves that hurdle move. I like the elusiveness. Why is he so lowly rated?

I don't have much faith in Lacy. He was so successful in college because he was bigger than everyone, an NFL running back playing in college. When he gets to the NFL and everyone is bigger, stronger, faster, I don't see him being as successful. He's not the as good as Ingram was, and Ingram hasn't panned out. There's way better value in the middle rounds.
And thats great and all, but thats not the Manning offense.
Again, DEN needs a 3-down back in this offense, that can do all i referred to.
Hillman is the complimentary back.
And if Gio Bernard could just work on his pass pro, i could easily see DEN going after him. But Gio wont make it out of the top 45 picks.
DEN isnt gonna give the responsiblity of blocking blitzers coming at the 90 bazzilion dollar, 37 year old QB to a rookie who isnt very good at it.
We all saw how bad Hillman was in passpro, and Ball as well. Ugly.
But a rookie who has done it for 3 years in a pro-style sytem that has produced a bunch of 1st rounders in recent drafts like RB Stepfan Taylor, yeah i could see that.
Having 2 RBs is great, but teams will know when Manning is gonna throw and adjust if there isnt a 3-down threat in the backfield in this offense.
Thats why Moreno, when healthy was so effective.
Having 2 RBs doesnt change the necessity of having one of them be a 3-down RB that is legit in all phases.
socalorado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 08:10 AM   #31
Lestat
Oreo Lucian Rockefeller
 
Lestat's Avatar
 
Say what again! I dare you!

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 7,717
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
I think you get the same value out running backs in rounds 3 and 4 as you get in rounds 1-2 of this draft. The value of this draft appears to be in Defense line, OGs Corners and WRs. That were you focus early and look for steal in the runner later.
there isn't a back i would really take in the first. but Lacy and Bernard are the best two backs in this draft and will pay immediate dividends. i don't see a RB in round 3-4 doing the damage those two can do.
developmental wise there are a few who will do well on the right team. but i want instant impact and a good or better career.
Lestat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 08:28 AM   #32
SlyEli
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalorado View Post
And thats great and all, but thats not the Manning offense.
Again, DEN needs a 3-down back in this offense, that can do all i referred to.
Hillman is the complimentary back.
And if Gio Bernard could just work on his pass pro, i could easily see DEN going after him. But Gio wont make it out of the top 45 picks.
DEN isnt gonna give the responsiblity of blocking blitzers coming at the 90 bazzilion dollar, 37 year old QB to a rookie who isnt very good at it.
We all saw how bad Hillman was in passpro, and Ball as well. Ugly.
But a rookie who has done it for 3 years in a pro-style sytem that has produced a bunch of 1st rounders in recent drafts like RB Stepfan Taylor, yeah i could see that.
Having 2 RBs is great, but teams will know when Manning is gonna throw and adjust if there isnt a 3-down threat in the backfield in this offense.
Thats why Moreno, when healthy was so effective.
Having 2 RBs doesnt change the necessity of having one of them be a 3-down RB that is legit in all phases.
I buy the pass pro argument. But I still see Taylor as a jack-of-all-trades, master of none kind of guy. I don't think his size and power will translate as well to the nfl. He lacks the elusiveness of a guy like Bell from msu.

I haven't been impressed at all watching Bernard's tape, but everyone seems to be high on him so maybe they know something that I don't.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 08:30 AM   #33
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 22,294

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Gilgamesh
Default

Would be completely floored if the Broncos spent their #1 or #2 on a RB.

Sounds like Carolina is actively shopping DeAngelo Williams, but with his cap # I don't see us being interested, despite the obvious links to John Nightfox.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:00 AM   #34
socalorado
Ring of Famer
 
socalorado's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,291
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elibroncofan View Post
I buy the pass pro argument. But I still see Taylor as a jack-of-all-trades, master of none kind of guy. I don't think his size and power will translate as well to the nfl. He lacks the elusiveness of a guy like Bell from msu.

I haven't been impressed at all watching Bernard's tape, but everyone seems to be high on him so maybe they know something that I don't.
And thats as good as it gets for a 3-down RB in this draft.
Slowshon is the master of none kind of guy, and he thrived when healthy.
Bell has HUGE concerns as a NFL RB.
1st, hes not elusive at all. Hes downright slow.
And by slow, i mean he never hits the hole with any kind of quickness.
he is projected to be a FB more than a RB in the NFL, and many dont think he will ever pan out as a RB.

I am not sure you understand the kind of RB that is needed in the
Manning-style offense. Again, Marshall Faulk is the model you want to look to. 3-down back. ( I know, a HOF calibur RB. Shady McCoy is an example of a "poor-mans" Faulk)

In the playoff game against BALT, ( I know. It still stings) there was a specific point in the game where DEN lost all its momentum.
No, it actually wasnt when Rahim blew it, and no it wasnt when Manning threw that pick in OT.
The momentum of that game was lost when Moreno went out of the game with the injury.
The offense became completely non-existant. It just ran out of gas.
Other RBs came in (Hillman, Ball) but the offense just took a dump and was stagnant. Hillman got some free yards here and there for the rest of the game, but BALT began to simply BLITZ the living crap outta Manning knowing that he couldnt throw if Moreno (or McGahee for that matter) wasnt in there.
BALT just sent in an extra blitzer for the rest of the game and wore down Mannings ability to create at the LOS.
And Hillman and Ball were literally decimated on pass-pro.
With no real threat from a RB that can run betweeen the tackles and outside of the tackles (Moreno), and catch out of the backfield (Moreno), like Slowshon did and scored a TD doing it in that playoff game, and most importantly pass protect (Moreno), and keep the opposong defense too scared to blitz for fear of a dump off (Moreno), or an adequate pass protecting RB(Moreno) that can take on an extra blitzer allowing Manning to torch a team throwing downfield, then DEN is in deep trouble.

Le'Von Bell is NOT the RB that DEN needs. Ron Dayne all over again.
Jonathan Stewart would be perefct, but thats a bit of a pipe dream.

Last edited by socalorado; 02-22-2013 at 09:03 AM..
socalorado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:09 AM   #35
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 22,294

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Gilgamesh
Default

Bell fits here just fine. He was playing at 240 pounds and showed good quickness for his size and deceptive speed down the field. If he sheds that weight, he is going to be more explosive. The big questions on him are consistent vision (as you alluded to with hitting the hole) and that he needs better effort in pass protection, which is said for almost every back coming out of college.

He has caught 30+ balls the past two years and rushed for over 2,700 and 25 touchdowns. Don't see how he is Ron Dayne all over again. The kid was legitimately one of the top backs in the country playing out of a pro-style offense. He is also a monster inside the 20. Definitely what we need. Agree to disagree. I would like to see all the quotes on people doubting his ability to be a RB in the NFL.



Doesn't look slow to me at all. http://www.youtube.com/embed/1r74G2Mm2xQ

Not sure if that worked:


Last edited by Requiem; 02-22-2013 at 09:15 AM..
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:22 AM   #36
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 22,294

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Gilgamesh
Default

Did you see that complete field reversal against Boise State in the end of that clip? He just went dummy. No way is that slow. Ron Dayne ain't do that.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:23 AM   #37
SlyEli
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Taylor is way more of a Dayne clone. Big, bowling ball type. Straight linish. Bell is way better in space
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:25 AM   #38
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 22,294

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Gilgamesh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elibroncofan View Post
Taylor is way more of a Dayne clone. Big, bowling ball type. Straight linish. Bell is way better in space
I'm riding the Bell train 4 life.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:29 AM   #39
ZONA
Ring of Famer
 
ZONA's Avatar
 
Fun at the range MAR 2014

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 9,244

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtown View Post
Shonn Green is terrible.
You and Ray are obviously lacking something upstairs. The dude is 225 pounds who can move around like a Ray Rice. You say he hasn't done anything since those playoffs but I'd like to point out, mind you, playing in an offense with Mark Sanchez as your starting QB and NO defense is playing pass at all against you, he still had over 1000 yards, 8TD's, averaged 3.9 YPC. And he's been pretty consistent, having averaged 5.0, 4.2, 4.1 and 3.9 YPC over 4 seasons, and we all know the last several years would have been even high had defenses not stacked, oh say 10 guys in the box, lol hahaha.

Now those aren't exactly Peterson numbers but when you consider they had no passing game at all and he still did what he did, that's pretty good. I could understand if you said you think he's a bit overrated or something. But to say he's terrible just shows you really have a lack of football IQ
ZONA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:31 AM   #40
socalorado
Ring of Famer
 
socalorado's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,291
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Did you see that complete field reversal against Boise State in the end of that clip? He just went dummy.
Thats why there called "highlights".
Its easy to post the highlights of any player.

I have never seen anyone saying that Bell is a 3-down NFL back.
Theres a possibility, but theres the same possibility for any RB in this years draft. I do however like Bells quick feet though!
DEN could simply draft a late round back to push the pile, or keep McGahee.
The only RBs in this draft that currently before even entering the NFL have the ability already to play 3-downs as a rookie are Taylor, Gillisee, Franklin and Ball. And Ball has concussion issues.
Bells also already is trying to state hes gonna lose weight.
And many analysts have stated concernsd over his lack of speed hitting the hole. Dont care about trick, reverse plays.
socalorado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:32 AM   #41
socalorado
Ring of Famer
 
socalorado's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,291
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elibroncofan View Post
Taylor is way more of a Dayne clone. Big, bowling ball type. Straight linish. Bell is way better in space
socalorado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:33 AM   #42
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 22,294

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Gilgamesh
Default

I would take Bell over all of the running backs you listed, but I do like Franklin out of UCLA.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:39 AM   #43
socalorado
Ring of Famer
 
socalorado's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,291
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
I would take Bell over all of the running backs you listed, but I do like Franklin out of UCLA.
If your looking for a guy who can be a real sleeper. A RB that is under the radar and can do it all. Play all 3 downs and be a real steal then look no further than Stephon Jefferson of Nevada.
From all accounts hes just a really good guy with a ton of potential.
socalorado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:42 AM   #44
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 22,294

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Gilgamesh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalorado View Post
If your looking for a guy who can be a real sleeper. A RB that is under the radar and can do it all. Play all 3 downs and be a real steal then look no further than Stephon Jefferson of Nevada.
From all accounts hes just a really good guy with a ton of potential.
Oh believe me, he is on my board. Don't mention him ever again. Nobody can know he exists.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:51 AM   #45
NFLBRONCO
Ring of Famer
 
NFLBRONCO's Avatar
 
Go Nuggets Go Lakers

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lafayette Colorado
Posts: 7,882
Default

I'd love at least 2 new RB's this offseason but, with Fox we'll stand with what we have imo.
NFLBRONCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:03 AM   #46
SlyEli
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Oh believe me, he is on my board. Don't mention him ever again. Nobody can know he exists.
He runs so high and stiff. Reminds me of Darren McFadden. My deep sleeper pick is John White from Utah. Will probably be undrafted. I also like Ray Graham from Pitt. He's got sick moves, very similar to Shady McCoy
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:22 AM   #47
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,224

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Running Back weigh ins
Eddie Lacy 5'11 230....10 pounds above listed weight
Giovani Bernard 5'8 202...2 or 3 inches below listed hight
Montee Ball 5'11 214.
Johnathan Franklin 5'10 205
Le'Veon Bell 6'1 230...10 pounds below list weight
Mike Gillislee 5'11 208
Marcus Lattimore 5'11 221
Stepfan Taylor 5'9 214
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:27 AM   #48
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 22,294

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Gilgamesh
Default

Lacy is gettin' fat.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:29 AM   #49
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,224

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Lacy is gettin' fat.
Yeah now I know why he isn't running.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:55 AM   #50
yerner
Ring of Famer
 
yerner's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charlottesville VA
Posts: 3,861
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZONA View Post
You and Ray are obviously lacking something upstairs. The dude is 225 pounds who can move around like a Ray Rice. You say he hasn't done anything since those playoffs but I'd like to point out, mind you, playing in an offense with Mark Sanchez as your starting QB and NO defense is playing pass at all against you, he still had over 1000 yards, 8TD's, averaged 3.9 YPC. And he's been pretty consistent, having averaged 5.0, 4.2, 4.1 and 3.9 YPC over 4 seasons, and we all know the last several years would have been even high had defenses not stacked, oh say 10 guys in the box, lol hahaha.

Now those aren't exactly Peterson numbers but when you consider they had no passing game at all and he still did what he did, that's pretty good. I could understand if you said you think he's a bit overrated or something. But to say he's terrible just shows you really have a lack of football IQ

yeah, all the pro scouts compare greene to ray rice. stop making stuff up.
yerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:59 AM.


Denver Broncos