The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-20-2013, 05:37 PM   #51
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,406
Default

One more point broncosteven.....again, responsible people who own guns also train their children about gun safety....and teach them to respect guns. this 14 year old was calm and cool....did not panic and saved his sibling's lives along with his own...and who knows how many others by making sure this ****wad doesn't do it again.

errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 06:36 PM   #52
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nęstved, DK
Posts: 11,103

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
And yet the gun free zone that is the airplane did not prevent 9/11 now did it?

amazing how people can devise numerous ways to keep guns out of law abiding people's hands, but not once have I heard their plan to keep them out of a criminal's hands.
The majority of guns in criminals hands got there from law abiding citizens, either through theft or resale - keep guns away from law abiding citizens and you cut off the number 1 source of weapons for criminals.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 07:28 PM   #53
broncosteven
Kranz Dictum
 
broncosteven's Avatar
 
Where is Amazon!

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tranquility Base
Posts: 35,687

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CJ Anderson!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
In bold
Why don't you ask me to cure cancer while I am at it?



I have said this somewhere else here, at this point, I think for our country to be a totally free society we should be able to own a gun if we want to.

I think something that's sole purpose to destroy should be regulated either by gun owners via the NRA or if gun owners won't or can't regulate themselves the government should.

I think every gun owner should go through more testing and training than you go through to get a drivers license. I think Gun owners should be required to keep their training current and prove they still have their weapons. They should prove they have locked gun safes and locks and use them.

I think there should be a tax or yearly licensing that goes toward local police forces. Chicago's problem is an issue of man power. We need more and better police on the streets.

I like the idea of public service, I think everyone in the USA should commit time volunteering. We cannot impact our communities by hunkering down in a bugout shipping containers buried in our back yards. If you want real change we need to reach youths that are in high risk area's before they "Break Bad". A lot of these kids committing these heinous crimes have grown up without a mentor or authority figure. Mentoring kids and teaching them to make good decisions is key to turning this around. People who have mental issues need help, not more access to guns. It is too easy to roll up on a group of kids and shoot into them and drive off. They are totally desensitized to the violence. Could exposure to violent games, music, and movies contribute to this, yes, would having a mentor that instills values that keep these kids on track to succeed in life allow them to know right from wrong? Yes. Would Columbine happened if Klebold and Harris had authority figures or mentors involved in their lives? I don't think so. Will there always be antisocial people who will commit heinous acts? Sadly yes.

Do I feel that all guns should be taken away and destroyed? No. I know there are legit gun owners who hunt and eat their kills and are responsible. Is every gun owner responsible? Nope, but that is OK.

I think it comes down to Gun Owners makeing a choice to regulate or ask for regulation on their terms. Do you really need a 30 or even 10 round clip? Why isn't 5 good enough for the avg citizen? If you feel the need to fire a 30 round semi-auto rifle why not take it to a range where they allow you to use one of their clips, you can shoot up **** and cause mayhem then give them back the clip and go home. The clip stays locked up and accounted for and you get your rocks off.

Why are 17 round hand guns available to the general public? How many rounds is enough? How many rounds do you think you would need in a home invasion before you or the perp is put down?

I have been watching PBS this week, they have a special series about the Newtown aftermath. Fact is we over react as a society. Why make drastic changes when all we need is change? Putting guns in schools or on everyone's hip is only going to lead to vigilantism and anarchy. If gun owners want to exercise their freedom why not police or regulate themselves?

Invest more in our police force, create stronger security systems (hey if your so worried about home invasion why not buy an alarm system! What a concept) support our local communities by giving back, be part of the solution not the problem, Mentor at risk people, invest in more mental health research, fund bigger and better police forces, volunteer in neighborhood watches, anything but add more guns in public.
broncosteven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 10:40 AM   #54
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
The majority of guns in criminals hands got there from law abiding citizens, either through theft or resale - keep guns away from law abiding citizens and you cut off the number 1 source of weapons for criminals.
....that's like saying the best way to prevent school shootings is get rid of the schools to cut off their number one source of potential victims

God, some of you people really need help.....
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 06:30 PM   #55
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by broncosteven View Post
Why don't you ask me to cure cancer while I am at it?

So you admit your so called answers only punish the law abiding.......which for some reason doesn't make sense. If your neighbor got a DUI, should we limit or confiscate your alcohol?



I have said this somewhere else here, at this point, I think for our country to be a totally free society we should be able to own a gun if we want to.

I think something that's sole purpose to destroy should be regulated either by gun owners via the NRA or if gun owners won't or can't regulate themselves the government should.

We do regulate ourselves...when others make the conscious decision to attack innocent people with their handguns, or semi-auto rifles we shoot back at them. We insist that others show respect for guns and use them safely.....

I think every gun owner should go through more testing and training than you go through to get a drivers license.

Really? Cars kill more people than guns do.....in fact my guns have killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car has.


I think Gun owners should be required to keep their training current and prove they still have their weapons. They should prove they have locked gun safes and locks and use them.

Again, drunk drivers kill more people than guns do....so should we push for legislation that limits the alcohol own by those who responsibly drink? And since many kids who engage in alcohol abuse get their booze from their parents should we require their parents lock their booze up, and register their bottles of Jack Daniels?

BTW, a Democrat leader pushing for gun locks couldn't get one unlocked while trying to demonstrate how fast one could potentially respond to an intruder.......and guns have several safety mechanisms.....you could leave the magazine out or if magazine is in, not have a round in the chamber, and if you're locked and loaded, there is the safety....My 1911 has a grip safety, sear disconnect, slide stop, half cock position, and manual safety.....that's basically 5 ways to ensure I don't have an accidental discharge (feel free to make jokes)


I think there should be a tax or yearly licensing that goes toward local police forces. Chicago's problem is an issue of man power. We need more and better police on the streets.

Umm, no...Chicago's problem is the monkeys are running the farm. toughest gun laws in nation and the criminals have no fear......because they know the young co-ed, granny, or the average homeowner isn't packing...not by choice, but because they are being punished and denied their 2nd amendment rights.

I like the idea of public service, I think everyone in the USA should commit time volunteering.

WTF does this have to do with denying law abiding citizens their 2nd amendment right to defend themselves?


We cannot impact our communities by hunkering down in a bugout shipping containers buried in our back yards.

Don't lump doomsday preppers with those of us ordinary law abiding citizens who fear that an over reaching government is a threat to everyone's freedoms....


If you want real change we need to reach youths that are in high risk area's before they "Break Bad". A lot of these kids committing these heinous crimes have grown up without a mentor or authority figure.

It's not my fault or responsibility to teach someone else's child to respect human life.....it is my responsibility to protect my family from those who do not respect human life. You liberals love to talk about leaving a better world for the children, but never talk about leaving better children for the world.


Mentoring kids and teaching them to make good decisions is key to turning this around. People who have mental issues need help, not more access to guns.

OK, I've mentored and raised my children.....how about telling the rest of the nation to raise and mentor their children. As for people with mental issues.....are you saying we should lock people who have never been violent but have been diagnosed with mental problems? The kid who shot up Sandy Hook was a goofball, and made people feel weird, but prior to going on his shooting rampage, had never displayed any signs of committing the carnage he did......


It is too easy to roll up on a group of kids and shoot into them and drive off. They are totally desensitized to the violence. Could exposure to violent games, music, and movies contribute to this, yes, would having a mentor that instills values that keep these kids on track to succeed in life allow them to know right from wrong? Yes.

So you have no problem with the government taking away your 1st amendment rights?


Would Columbine happened if Klebold and Harris had authority figures or mentors involved in their lives? I don't think so. Will there always be antisocial people who will commit heinous acts? Sadly yes.

so which is it? Would they have been ok if their parents paid more attention to them or are they just those anti-social people who will always commit heinous acts? I'm sure if you look into their history, they had gotten into trouble before....it's not like they were honor society students who all of a sudden snapped. I don't know, but would guess they had brushes with law enforcement or faculty. and it's because of this we shouldn't punish law abiding citizens their 2nd amendment rights.....just as we shouldn't limit your right to free speech because some utters a racially insensitive name, or take away your car because someone else got a DUI.

Do I feel that all guns should be taken away and destroyed? No. I know there are legit gun owners who hunt and eat their kills and are responsible. Is every gun owner responsible? Nope, but that is OK.

Again, one person being irresponsible doesn't make a case to punish those of us who are. some people over eat, some drink too much, and others don't practice safe sex.....so I should be punished for their actions? You wouldn't like it if the government said you couldn't eat certain foods because your neighbor was fat would you?

I think it comes down to Gun Owners makeing a choice to regulate or ask for regulation on their terms. Do you really need a 30 or even 10 round clip? Why isn't 5 good enough for the avg citizen?

Then wouldn't it make sense that a well trained police officer wouldn't need 15 rounds? so why not limit what cops can carry? Do cops need a 30 round clip on their AR-15's?

If your answer is yes they do need them because they can't possibly know how well-armed the criminals they encounter are, then pray tell how the average citizen/homeowner would know how well armed the clowns who kick in his door would be?



If you feel the need to fire a 30 round semi-auto rifle why not take it to a range where they allow you to use one of their clips, you can shoot up **** and cause mayhem then give them back the clip and go home. The clip stays locked up and accounted for and you get your rocks off.

while going to the gun range is an enjoyable experience for me personally, it is not where I go to "get my rocks off" I go to stay sharp....to improve my accuracy.....which reduces the chances of my weapons not hitting my target

Why are 17 round hand guns available to the general public? How many rounds is enough? How many rounds do you think you would need in a home invasion before you or the perp is put down?

the average home invasion has 2 or more perps.....very rarely is it one solitary person. As far as how many rounds I would need....who knows...what if 5 guys take a sledge hammer to my door?

I have been watching PBS this week, they have a special series about the Newtown aftermath. Fact is we over react as a society. Why make drastic changes when all we need is change? Putting guns in schools or on everyone's hip is only going to lead to vigilantism and anarchy. If gun owners want to exercise their freedom why not police or regulate themselves?

And you are over reacting.....you want to punish people who obey the laws of gun ownership instead of those who choose to ignore them. Kennesaw GA requires every citizen to own a gun (but don't inspect their resident's homes for compliance) and they haven't turned into OK Corral or anarchy...however chicago with very tough guns laws has.

Invest more in our police force, create stronger security systems (hey if your so worried about home invasion why not buy an alarm system! What a concept)

My taxes are high enough.....and I help my local law enforcement by making sure my domicile is safe because I own guns....as for an alarm system....once again, when seconds matter, the police are minutes away. Cops generally show up in time to draw a chalk outline of a body. you remind me of those liberals who have suggested that women should urinate on themselves if sexually assaulted to try and kill the thrill for the rapist.....while I think it's better she pulls out her Glock and makes the rapist piss himself


support our local communities by giving back, be part of the solution not the problem,

How does my owning guns and teaching my kids to respect human life and gun safety, not to mention defending the 2nd amendment (and all the others) make me part of the problem?


Mentor at risk people, invest in more mental health research, fund bigger and better police forces, volunteer in neighborhood watches, anything but add more guns in public.

Vermont has very few gun control laws. Gun dealers are required to keep a record of all handgun sales. It is illegal to carry a gun on school property or in a courthouse. State law preempts local governments from regulating the possession, ownership, transfer, carrying, registration or licensing of firearms

Vermont law does not distinguish between residents and non-residents of the state; both have the same right to carry while in Vermont. The state of Vermont permits the concealed carry of handguns without a permit.

Yes, that's right. In Vermont, you can carry a handgun concealed on your person without obtaining any kind of permit or license.


With that kind of crazy right-wing law in place, the murder rate in Vermont must be through the roof!

Oh no, it's not. The murder rate in Vermont is about 1 per 100,000 of population. That's roughly equivalent to the UK, every liberals' shining example of "common sense gun laws."

Meanwhile, in Chicago, the murder rate is about 16 per 100,000 of population. (These numbers are as of 2010.)

This despite the fact that, until very recently, Chicago completely banned the possession of handguns.

Explain how that's possible please.....

In Bold....
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 09:18 PM   #56
broncosteven
Kranz Dictum
 
broncosteven's Avatar
 
Where is Amazon!

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tranquility Base
Posts: 35,687

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CJ Anderson!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
In Bold....

Vermont has very few gun control laws. Gun dealers are required to keep a record of all handgun sales. It is illegal to carry a gun on school property or in a courthouse. State law preempts local governments from regulating the possession, ownership, transfer, carrying, registration or licensing of firearms

Vermont law does not distinguish between residents and non-residents of the state; both have the same right to carry while in Vermont. The state of Vermont permits the concealed carry of handguns without a permit.

Yes, that's right. In Vermont, you can carry a handgun concealed on your person without obtaining any kind of permit or license.


With that kind of crazy right-wing law in place, the murder rate in Vermont must be through the roof!

Oh no, it's not. The murder rate in Vermont is about 1 per 100,000 of population. That's roughly equivalent to the UK, every liberals' shining example of "common sense gun laws."

Meanwhile, in Chicago, the murder rate is about 16 per 100,000 of population. (These numbers are as of 2010.)

This despite the fact that, until very recently, Chicago completely banned the possession of handguns.

Explain how that's possible please.....
I am guessing that Cook County alone has 100 times the gang activity that Vermont does. How can you compare the issues that Chicago, a city of over 5 million people has compared to a state that is listed at having less than 700,000 people?

You would be happy to learn that just today the Conceal Carry law is being challenged here in IL.

Again I don't know how adding more guns is a deterrent.

I would not feel safe anywhere downtown while packing heat. I took the family down to the loop last month and felt safe, sure there are homeless trying to sell you street wise but the other types of pan handling have been reduced. I am actually surprised at the volume and persistence of panhandlers in CO compared to Chicago. You don't see them here outside of the loop. As long as one doesn't go into Lawndale or south of 35th street your fine. There is crime everywhere and you have to be alert but these shootings are not occuring on State Street and Jackson. These shootings are happening in gang and drug infested communities. Communities where they need more police.


I can't respond to every point. You asked what I would do to reduce gun violence, I believe that we need to be leaders and mentors at home 1st, I am glad you believe the same, but I also think we need to take it to the next level and be active in the communities as well. We cannot tell our country "Well I did my part and took care of me and my own, why should I care about others as well"? I think this is the hart of the problem, kids are having kids they do not know how to be role models or tell right from wrong. Even the kids that do grow up in 2 parent homes who should know better end up acting out and resorting to drugs and violence.

Being greedy and telling people to fend for themselves is not the solution. Expecting every person to pack heat and protect themselves because you pay too much in Taxes already is unacceptable. Do you expect the disabled an elderly to pack heat and leave there safety up to weather they can put down a perp in a purse snatching? I would rather have a trained officer who's job is public safety patrolling doing his job. I would love to see all these troops who are finally returning home have jobs in expanded police forces if they so choose. Adding police means more jobs which helps the feedback loop that is the economy.

I believe the issue you have boils down to 2 points:
1 - You were in the military (I thank you for your service BTW) and you received more training than an avg citizen or even police officer in how to use a weapon. You can't seem to change perspective and look at the issue from my POV. You keep bringing up the 2nd amendment which is fine, I am with you on guns being available in a truly free society (I don't have to like it) but what measure of ownership is enough? At what point is the gun owners cup full? 10 rounds, 30, 100? Does the public need access to Semi-auto guns? We can't get RPG's, what's up with that!

2 - You don't want to pay more tax and likely feel already your paying way too much. I think to have a society that grows we need to invest in infrastructure and address social needs. Have you ever seen the documentary "The Queen of Versailles"? At what point in the USA does a family or person have "enough" money? 325' Yacht? A G4 Jet? Couple Hundred Billion in the bank? OMG people making over $200k a year will pay more tax! The only people I know making anything near that are my Dr and my Lawyer and both are smart enough to find (or pay someone to find) the loop holes to reduce what they have to pay. I live in a nice area, the median avg income is right at $80k. How much is ever enough. I have nice cars, I want to drive them on nice roads. OMG we have to pay tax to build roads! Who knew! Do I live in fear that a team of armed intruders are going to break into my home and gun us down like the book "In Cold Blood"? Nope, if they did it would be a waste of time, unless they really want a couple old musical instruments and a wall of CD's and books.

I really don't get the fear and loathing of our neighbors. Why is it unacceptable to regulate a product that is built to kill and destroy? Is it crazy to expect our society to move past the hate and on to bigger and better things as one? I don't get why people think it is still 1791 and we are still living in a frontier where WE are brutally pushing the indiginous peoples off the continent. They NEEDED guns for true protection back then. A freaking Jaguar could jump you on your way back from town. Migrating Indians could see you as a threat to your way of life and attack. Now we just have violent crime and drug epidemics that would be better left to police and federal agencies to address. You want to buy a gun "Just incase" or to look at or target practice...fine go ahead and use up whatever money your not paying on taxes in Ammo. Do you really need a 30 round clip, can you live without the semi-auto rifle? Just consider your fellow man, some one who didn't get the breaks you or I got, everyone needs help during any point of their lives. Don't you think being involved in public service for a couple hours change the life of someone for the better?

Put some John Lennon on and give peace a chance!
broncosteven is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:56 AM.


Denver Broncos