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Old 02-18-2013, 02:37 PM   #51
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Oh please. You're gonna use literally the most dominant defensive season I've ever seen and cite it like it could be achieved with regularity?
no haha i was just being a dick
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:39 PM   #52
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no haha i was just being a dick
I mean... I agree if that were an option.

****, I'd trade every ****ing defensive player on the roster to get 2012 JJ Watt every year.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:57 PM   #53
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I mean... I agree if that were an option.

****, I'd trade every ****ing defensive player on the roster to get 2012 JJ Watt every year.
miller for watt straight up? jw
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:03 PM   #54
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no haha i was just being a dick
I mean... I agree if that were an option.

****, I'd trade every ****ing defensive player on the roster to get 2012 JJ Watt every year.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:05 PM   #55
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Med dropped a couple names. Arthur Brown is probably a high 2nd. The thing is like people have said above, with LB's the game play tells the tale. LB's don't seem to move much after the combine and Pro days. Where they are projected at season's end is where they get drafted.
!! I have said Arthur Brown and Kasheem Green for quiet some time.. I was thinking middle round MLBs 3-5 range.. Cause of that OMane draft we are holding things close to the chest..
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:09 PM   #56
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If all has gone well and he has been working his ass hard at recovery - i like Mauti somewhere in rounds 5-6. It all depends on the recovery though. He might go really late or undrafted if no one gets to really check him out before April.
I just dropped his very name and even said in the fifth round! I would love Thr selection and value, and even later would be icing on the cake!
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:13 PM   #57
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AJ Klein
He or Mauti in the 4th-5th would be great value picks! And could compete with Irving! I'm really liking what I have seen from him but wanted to keep it quiet..
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:03 PM   #58
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It won't change regardless of the mike backer.

Von is the centerpiece. We adjust our DL AND our LBs to put him in advantageous situations.

When he gets stonewalled by Baltimore, we're ****ed.
You really think the scheme would not change if we had a real 3-down MLB? I think it would. As it is right now, the scheme is compensating for the lack of a 3-down MLB.

It's a whole different discussion about what they were trying to do on D in the Balt playoff game, JDR changed all kinds of things. Miller was not attacking, more playing back in coverage, and Balt went right the whole day for their big plays. They didn't go left side at all, they went right all day. JDR didn't try to switch Elvis to the left side to give Balt a different look.

Maybe they couldn't have stopped Balt no matter what they did, but I'm saying the D scheme would have been helped with a real 3-down MLB.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:12 PM   #59
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I think the Ravens drugged Champ, that's the only explanation.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:23 PM   #60
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John Henderson and Marcus Stroud were great big bodied DTs that dominated. Shariff Floyd is of the same mold. JDR is still def. cord in Denver and if Floyd is there at #28 I can almost promise you he will be a Bronco.
No, Floyd is Warren Sapp 3 technique quick with strength. Stroud and Henderson were Enormous run Stuffers with power, just like I said JDR likes his DT's. He modeled it after Siragusa and Sam Adams in BAL. Those dudes were quick in a phone booth, but not one gap penetrators like Sapp and Floyd.

If Floyd is there at 28, I gaurantee he would be the BPA by a large margin, and therefore he would hopefully be DEN's pick. However, I would be Shocked if he made it to 28.

The point of all of this still stands though. A real MIKE is a leader who elevates the defense and makes it play better than the sum of its parts. A 3 down player who commands the huddle and is balanced in Run and pass. That is why MIKE's are so damn important. DT's can be dominant, CB's can be dominant, and DE and OLB's can be dominant. However, A dominant MIKE is almost impossible to scheme out of the game. Drop a dominant MIKE in this defense and it takes the next step. ELITE level defense. One that has no more true weakness. Hell even Moore was not a weakness last year, just not a strength and an idiot with the biggest game of his life on the line.

Drop a dominant MIKE who can rush, play the run, and cover and there is no better investment to make this Defense dominant for 60 minutes.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:38 PM   #61
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjydMAu5kfg

Looks weak at the POA and struggles making open field tackles.

Although he did look comfortable defending the pass against a spread offense and seemed to make the right reads. Although his athletic ability seemed to prohibit him from making those plays (hence the missed open field tackles).

Last edited by Rascal; 02-18-2013 at 05:50 PM..
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:05 PM   #62
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He's a poor man's James Lariniuts.. Reminds me of Pat Angerer from Indy..
That's his downfall, he doesn't have tremendous athleticism.. But he has great instincts, awareness, and fundamentals.. If the FO really wants to give Irving the opportunity, I would prefer a mid round guy like Mauti or Klein to come in and compete..
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:09 PM   #63
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He's a poor man's James Lariniuts.. Reminds me of Pat Angerer from Indy..
That's his downfall, he doesn't have tremendous athleticism.. But he has great instincts, awareness, and fundamentals.. If the FO really wants to give Irving the opportunity, I would prefer a mid round guy like Mauti or Klein to come in and compete..
I would agree with that.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:12 PM   #64
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I'm watching some Nate Irving film, and I gotta say he looks better than most of the guys in the draft I've seen.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:15 PM   #65
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I'm watching some Nate Irving film, and I gotta say he looks better than most of the guys in the draft I've seen.
Is that before or after his injury?
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:22 PM   #66
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Is that before or after his injury?
not sure

here is one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKArcBAlXZY
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:28 PM   #67
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That's after. 2008-2009 is when he was injured.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:33 PM   #68
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That's after. 2008-2009 is when he was injured.
that's what I meant

not sure he will translate to more than a 2 down LB though, seeing some questionable pass defense skills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gA-nz5OldA
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:40 PM   #69
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No, Floyd is Warren Sapp 3 technique quick with strength. Stroud and Henderson were Enormous run Stuffers with power, just like I said JDR likes his DT's. He modeled it after Siragusa and Sam Adams in BAL. Those dudes were quick in a phone booth, but not one gap penetrators like Sapp and Floyd.

If Floyd is there at 28, I gaurantee he would be the BPA by a large margin, and therefore he would hopefully be DEN's pick. However, I would be Shocked if he made it to 28.

The point of all of this still stands though. A real MIKE is a leader who elevates the defense and makes it play better than the sum of its parts. A 3 down player who commands the huddle and is balanced in Run and pass. That is why MIKE's are so damn important. DT's can be dominant, CB's can be dominant, and DE and OLB's can be dominant. However, A dominant MIKE is almost impossible to scheme out of the game. Drop a dominant MIKE in this defense and it takes the next step. ELITE level defense. One that has no more true weakness. Hell even Moore was not a weakness last year, just not a strength and an idiot with the biggest game of his life on the line.

Drop a dominant MIKE who can rush, play the run, and cover and there is no better investment to make this Defense dominant for 60 minutes.
Agreed.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:40 PM   #70
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So.. I'm not exactly grasping the issue with Irving. He was injured in college, but returned and continued to play at a high level, and I remember how much Parcells loved Irving.. And he suffered through the lockout as all other rookies did. And what exactly is keeping him from claiming a spot that's a weak link in the defense, and when frankly he has little competition..?
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:50 PM   #71
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So.. I'm not exactly grasping the issue with Irving. He was injured in college, but returned and continued to play at a high level, and I remember how much Parcells loved Irving.. And he suffered through the lockout as all other rookies did. And what exactly is keeping him from claiming a spot that's a weak link in the defense, and when frankly he has little competition..?
Irving has just barely got himself into position as a good ST guy. He's had some snaps on D as a rookie and in his 2nd year, but did he really do anything noteworthy? Anything that stood out? Trevathan got more snaps than Irving did. The staff was waiting for DJ to come back, they didn't even consider Irving, it was Trevathan and hope DJ could come back and contribute.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:55 PM   #72
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Irving has just barely got himself into position as a good ST guy. He's had some snaps on D as a rookie and in his 2nd year, but did he really do anything noteworthy? Anything that stood out? Trevathan got more snaps than Irving did. The staff was waiting for DJ to come back, they didn't even consider Irving, it was Trevathan and hope DJ could come back and contribute.
Does he mentally not grasp the play book, conceptual and physical elements associated with the game at the pro level, or a hard time adjusting to the speed?

Or.. Is he not physically what they had hoped he would be..? I don't understand how he goes from special teamer and back-up limited used LB to competing as our starting Mike..?

Either he shows real promise in practice or we are in serious trouble..if we are going to trot him out there..
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:02 PM   #73
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So.. I'm not exactly grasping the issue with Irving. He was injured in college, but returned and continued to play at a high level, and I remember how much Parcells loved Irving.. And he suffered through the lockout as all other rookies did. And what exactly is keeping him from claiming a spot that's a weak link in the defense, and when frankly he has little competition..?
the more i watch, the more I think it's a combination of not grasping the play book and being a 3-4 ILB rather than a 4-3 MLB (there is a big difference despite what some people say). Which also explains why Parcells, a 3-4 guy, loved him

anybody remember how he did in the senior bowl?

Last edited by Rascal; 02-18-2013 at 07:05 PM..
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:31 PM   #74
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the more i watch, the more I think it's a combination of not grasping the play book and being a 3-4 ILB rather than a 4-3 MLB (there is a big difference despite what some people say). Which also explains why Parcells, a 3-4 guy, loved him

anybody remember how he did in the senior bowl?
Your referring to his downhill style as being a better fit in a 3-4..? I thought he was solid in coverage in college?
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:32 PM   #75
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the more i watch, the more I think it's a combination of not grasping the play book and being a 3-4 ILB rather than a 4-3 MLB (there is a big difference despite what some people say). Which also explains why Parcells, a 3-4 guy, loved him

anybody remember how he did in the senior bowl?
here is what I dug up,

6. At inside linebacker, top-rated Greg Jones struggled much of the week as his limited range and coverage skills were exposed in one-on-one drills. Of the inside linebackers, Nate Irving had the strongest week, showing the best combination of pass coverage and run-stopping ability.
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