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Old 02-15-2013, 12:16 PM   #76
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only for one year, Glen Cadrez the other
Yeah Cadrez in SB33...the 6th round draft pick, multi-year vet. After Aldridge left in free agency (I think).

Both averaged under 50 tackles per year.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:28 PM   #77
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I've said it before.

The Broncos were willing to trot out Joe Mays as starter the last two years. They now have 5 players better than Mays that they can play at MLB(Brooking, Irving, Williams, Trevathan, and Johnson), and are coming off a top 5 Defensive ranking.

Not that I advocate spending a 1st round draft pick on a CB, but you would think replacing an undrafted FA Nickel CB (Tony Carter) who gave up the game winning TD in the last 30 seconds of the playoff game, would be a slightly higher priority than trying to replace 5 Bronco veterans by reaching in the 1st round on an unexperienced rookie, with average speed, who isn't clearly better than everybody else we have already.


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Old 02-15-2013, 12:30 PM   #78
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Brooking = not resigned
Williams = restructure or cut
Mays = cut
Trevathan = spot duty LB in nickel situations
Johnson = depth

We need help there, doesn't gotta be first-round, but we need it.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:04 PM   #79
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Brooking = not resigned
Williams = restructure or cut
Mays = cut
Trevathan = spot duty LB in nickel situations
Johnson = depth

We need help there, doesn't gotta be first-round, but we need it.
Anybody not drafted in the 1st round will not start in 2013. You could make a case for Arthur Brown in the 2nd round...but even then JDR would probably put him behind Brooking or Irving, just like he put Wolfe behind Bannan (until Hunter got hurt).

Ellerbe in FA is a possiblity, but the Broncos don't really have the cap space. Irving is making like $500k, and Brooking would resign another 1 year $1M deal to try to win a SB.

The Broncos, do however, need another backup SOLB. 1st and 2nd round are for starters, so I don't see them picking a backup SOLB until after that.

The crazy thing, is that DJ is still on the team. They're obviously trying to work with him...and it's not to backup WW at WOLB. I would be more than ok with DJ starting at MIKE in 2013. It's logical, if he's affordable. DJ vs. Brooking vs. Irving in camp.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:07 PM   #80
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IMO, a 3-down MLB is an asset. A guy that commands the defense on all three downs, the QB of the defense. Denver doesn't have one on the roster right now, they should try to find one. Irving, Johnson, Mays, they're ST guys. DJ has the skill to be a decent MLB, but IMO doesn't have the brains and leadership to take the playcall and communicate it properly to his teammates.

They need to find some guys with intestinal fortitude, because they sure didn't have them in the 2012 playoffs.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:11 PM   #81
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Factors other than MIKE that cost the Broncos the SB in 2012:

1. Tony Carter sucks. Champ got beat like a stepchild.
2. Rahim Moore cheated up too much and was 6 inches short
3. Turnstile at RG that made Manning fumble
4. No pass rush against the Ravens

There's 4 different positions to spend a possible 1st round pick on.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:34 PM   #82
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I would take Cyprien in the second before I would take Elam in the first..

If you take a RT or RG you either move on from Kuper or move him to another position..

I would take a first round CB but not to play as our Nickel. That's a unique position, and wouldn't require a first round pick..

Pass rush could use some improvement..Particularly interior pressure..
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:42 PM   #83
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I would take Cyprien in the second before I would take Elam in the first..

If you take a RT or RG you either move on from Kuper or move him to another position..

I would take a first round CB but not to play as our Nickel. That's a unique position, and wouldn't require a first round pick..

Pass rush could use some improvement..Particularly interior pressure..
Cyprien has climbed out of our reach (at #57) and is now a top 45 prospect (good job spotting him early on).

Don't think they're going to move on from Kuper yet.

They will try to draft a #1 CB in either round 1 or 2. They don't have a choice.

Gotta get rid of Bannan as the UT, either by replacing him with Wolfe and drafting a 1st round DE (my preference), or by drafting a 1st round UT.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:09 PM   #84
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If you take a first or second round RT/RG you cannot leave him on the bench.. Kuper is either moved to another position, or moved on.. Can't pay him $5 million to be a back-up.

I am fine with an early CB. But if you take Rhodes, he's not playing in the slot. That's a horrible fit of his skill set. Harris would move back inside or Champ. Not all CBs fit the slot, and I wouldn't draft one early..

I have no issue with drafting an early DE. I just don't like your prospect. Jones or Hunt would be my preference. And I'm not sure about taking either at #28.. Would prefer the second..
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:36 PM   #85
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I am fine with an early CB. But if you take Rhodes, he's not playing in the slot. That's a horrible fit of his skill set. Harris would move back inside or Champ. Not all CBs fit the slot, and I wouldn't draft one early..

I have no issue with drafting an early DE. I just don't like your prospect. Jones or Hunt would be my preference. And I'm not sure about taking either at #28.. Would prefer the second..
Jones or Hunt would be fine, but I don't think Jones will be there at #28, and I don't think Hunt will be there at #58. I don't know why you don't like Montgomery, he's a blue chipper...and to be honest, I don't like the Broncos 2012 scheme, it's like a patchwork with holes in it.

If the Broncos draft someone like Poyer or Alford, they can play in the slot for one year until Champ moves to Safety (or retires)...or you could always move Harris. Or maybe they can add a Nickel CB in free agency...they do have a little money to play with.

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Old 02-15-2013, 07:02 PM   #86
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Margus Hunt sucks. He was terrible all Senior Bowl week. Looks like Tarzan, plays like retarded baby with epilepsy.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:19 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Factors other than MIKE that cost the Broncos the SB in 2012:

1. Tony Carter sucks. Champ got beat like a stepchild.
2. Rahim Moore cheated up too much and was 6 inches short
3. Turnstile at RG that made Manning fumble
4. No pass rush against the Ravens

There's 4 different positions to spend a possible 1st round pick on.
Looking at one sub-par game as the basis of what we need is beyond silly...
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:30 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Margus Hunt sucks. He was terrible all Senior Bowl week. Looks like Tarzan, plays like retarded baby with epilepsy.
I've cooled on him since watching him there. I still wouldn't hate drafting him in the third though.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:15 PM   #89
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I think DJ would be a decent MLB and if playing there from day 1 of the season probably could be a good MLB with all the practice reps. But I still think they need to draft a MLB to see what they might find. I haven't seen enough from Irving to say he's got a real shot at starting. He'll be on the team for depth and further development but he's got some strides to make this year or he could be gone. I still think with improved DT play our LB's could produce better results.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:32 PM   #90
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Hunt brings more potential in our current scheme at SDE than Wolfe would. But he also brings a bigger bust factor..

Price Montgomery is not a SDE, I'd personally much rather have Oakfor. The big issue here is that the scheme and Miller in particular thrived with Wolfe at DE. I'm more than content leaving it the same and drafting a more disruptive DT.

You don't draft a first round CB to play Nickel during his career. And why play him there if Harris is exceptional there? I think we maybe take a late round prospect to develop but not an early CB..
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:38 PM   #91
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Margus Hunt sucks. He was terrible all Senior Bowl week. Looks like Tarzan, plays like retarded baby with epilepsy.
Really? The dude dominated Hawaii's RT during the bowl game. Thought he was coming around. Forget him then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
Looking at one sub-par game as the basis of what we need is beyond silly...
All the Broncos problems were amplified during the playoff game. Carter, Kuper, pass-rush out of the Nickel formation...all came back to haunt us.


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Price Montgomery is not a SDE, I'd personally much rather have Oakfor. The big issue here is that the scheme and Miller in particular thrived with Wolfe at DE. I'm more than content leaving it the same and drafting a more disruptive DT.
Montgomery was an SDE at LSU, and I think he projects that way as a pro. He's not an elite pass-rusher that you need on the weakside...but he's a good-pass rusher, and he plays the run well too. Gotta love his pursuit (which the DL lacked in 2012). He also has a non-stop motor. I would take Okafor too. I'm Wolfe's biggest fan, but he sucks at DE, just no impact at all. Too slow. The Broncos need a Justin Tuck type player (a real 4-3 DE), who can penetrate from anywhere on the line. I think that is Montgomery (or Okafor).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
You don't draft a first round CB to play Nickel during his career. And why play him there if Harris is exceptional there? I think we maybe take a late round prospect to develop but not an early CB..
A Nickel CB is pretty much a starter. The good passing teams exploited our nickel CB all year long (NE, Balt). The Broncos need a top-notch 3rd CB if they expect to get to the Superbowl...not a developmental prospect.

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Old 02-15-2013, 09:56 PM   #92
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Factors other than MIKE that cost the Broncos the SB in 2012:

1. Tony Carter sucks. Champ got beat like a stepchild.
2. Rahim Moore cheated up too much and was 6 inches short
3. Turnstile at RG that made Manning fumble
4. No pass rush against the Ravens

There's 4 different positions to spend a possible 1st round pick on.
My replies would be

1- Carter doesn't stink, but he's a 3rd or 4th corner at best. Champ played horrid and seemed to sort of lack a lot of fire in that game. I was surprised I thought he would be ready to rock n roll and get to the Superbowl. You can't have enough corners so IMO they are always a target.

2- How that play took place was the epitome of being soft. CB let guy run right buy him, Moore not deep enough. All because they played soft and the coaches coached soft.

3-Our interior oline even when healthy is still a little soft in short yardage. With Kuper banged up interior oline seems to be the most logical spot on offense to expect a high draft pick.

4-Doom and Miller vanished and also had offisides. Just a bad showing by defense overall.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:59 PM   #93
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Personally I question DJ Williams committment to winning football games. He's stated over and over its about the party for him during the week and he then goes 100% football on Sundays. But thats not enough for a middle linebacker and leader of a defense.

Sorry I say pass on DJ Williams and his partying DUI ways. He's old, never lived up to his potential, better on the weakside but not near as good as Woodyard anymore.

Broncos draft a linebacker and DJ might not even make the roster anyways.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:58 AM   #94
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Moore didn't cheat up too far and wasn't out of position. Watch the tape again. He was deep enough and had good position, he just cut it off too soon and timed the jump very badly. In that circumstance, you can even say he shouldn't have gone for the ball at all. Just play the defender and make sure it's either an incomplete pass or a tackle. No need to even play the damn ball. Ah yes, here we are again going over this play, ugh.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:39 AM   #95
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Price, the only thing keeping our D from being a 3-4, is Doom being in a two point stance. Wolfe played like a 3-4 DE not a 4-3 DE.. The hybrid scheme we run accentuates what Miller does best. I would not mess with the combo.. You put a smaller body in front of Miller and it compromises our scheme..
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:56 AM   #96
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Margus Hunt sucks. He was terrible all Senior Bowl week. Looks like Tarzan, plays like retarded baby with epilepsy.
That why I called him a 4th rounder.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:50 AM   #97
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Quote:
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Moore didn't cheat up too far and wasn't out of position. Watch the tape again. He was deep enough and had good position, he just cut it off too soon and timed the jump very badly. In that circumstance, you can even say he shouldn't have gone for the ball at all. Just play the defender and make sure it's either an incomplete pass or a tackle. No need to even play the damn ball. Ah yes, here we are again going over this play, ugh.
Go read the article at NFP from Matt Bowen here:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...s-Broncos.html

That is what actually happened. Moore allowed the outside Vertical to get behind him before the ball was thrown, that is poor play recognition, and even worse recovery once beaten.

It simply was a terrible mental effort, followed by poor technique once beaten. Nothing more, nothing less. It can be corrected, but is Moore a coachable kid or is he just not capable of learning. This is my question to JDR and staff next week. And believe me, I will ask it
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:43 AM   #98
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Price, the only thing keeping our D from being a 3-4, is Doom being in a two point stance. Wolfe played like a 3-4 DE not a 4-3 DE.. The hybrid scheme we run accentuates what Miller does best. I would not mess with the combo.. You put a smaller body in front of Miller and it compromises our scheme..
I think, to win the Superbowl, the Broncos are going to have to play a majority of the playoffs (against elite QB's) out of the Nickel formation (4-2-5), just like the Ravens did. There are a few factors at play here:

1. The Broncos CANNOT stop the run effectively out of the Nickel formation. There are two reasons for this. a) Their LB's (Woodyard, Brooking), aren't good enough at fighting off blocks and making the tackle. b) Their DL is too slow in pursuit to the outside (Vickerson, Bannan, Wolfe) or easily blockable (Dumervil). Replacing Brooking with someone better (Irving?), and replacing Wolfe at DE with a faster player (Montgomery) will help alleviate this.

2. Von Miller is able to be double-teamed when the Broncos are only rushing 4...rendering the Broncos pass-rush non-existent. Adding another bonafide pass-rusher to the mix is the only way to solve this problem. In the draft, that would either be Sam Montgomery, Alex Okafor, or maybe Kawann Short. Though, I don't like the idea of adding Kawann Short, because I want Wolfe at UT.

3. Champ is on the verge of not being able to guard elite WR's in single-coverage anymore. This severely comprimises the Broncos secondary scheme, which compensates to account for the relatively weak coverage ability of every one else in the secondary (Harris, Carter, Adams). They NEED to go with 2-deep Safeties against elite QB's (for the most part) from here on out. Replacing Carter (at Nickel CB), is the best way the Broncos can remedy this situation for now. Allowing for 5 dB's (instead of 4), gives both Harris and Bailey help over the top (which they both need now).

All Defenses are in effect like a house-of-cards, where one weak link will make the entire scheme crumble. The Broncos are no different. Playing with a 5 man line (3-4 as you call it), leaves the Broncos too vulnerable in the secondary. They won't be able to beat elite QB's that way, and they know it.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:12 PM   #99
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Playing as a disguised 3-4 was to address the weakness against the run. Two gapping everyone one the line except Doom allowed our two best defensive front 7 players to do what they do best, and that's hunt. It also masked the defencies of our LBs, allowing them to flow to the ball and make a play.

Make no mistake about it, Wolfe is a huge reason for Millers success this year, as I have called him the peanut butter to Von's Jelly. He is as important to Miller as Justin Smith is to Aldon Smith. Why change that? I love our hybrid scheme. Sure I think Wolfe could play UT in a true 4-3, but he has a similar role now in our scheme, but of greater importance, because he facilitates Von Miller. If Wolfe is moved inside, we need a DE who can set the edge and allow Von to come around. If you put a smaller body there, you are compromising the scheme...

Seattle runs a very similar scheme. Doom would act as the Leo or the permanent rusher off of the weak side. Sometimes they one-gap the DT next to him (Branch) and Mebane (NT) and Red Bryant (DE) two gap. That's it in terms of pass rush, and they will bring Irvin at SOLB off the edge like Miller in obvious passing downs. We have a huge advantage in that Wolfe is way more athletic then Red Bryant. And Miller plays most of the downs unlike Irvin. Wolfe will grow and develop more, he was only a rookie! Where Seattle has the tremendous upper hand aside from MLB, is their secondary. Sherman is in my opinion the second best CB in the NFL, and Browner is so physical at disrupting a WR in bump and run.

We don't have press man corners....

That ability to blanket their WRs allow that pass rush more time to get home. It allows Seattle the ability to scheme their LBs and Safeties into the passing game. What I think our scheme needs is the ability to get home from the inside, whether that means sliding Wolfe inside or drafting a disruptive DT.

Truthfully price either way could work, but if you move Wolfe inside you need a DE, if you leave Wolfe at DE you need a pressure DT. Your substituting one for one. It depends who's available come #28 and then you factor in that it takes rookie DTs time to develop and that puts us back at square one where it's just our best guess..

My question is can Ayers, or Jackson, or Beal, or Hunter, or a FA, or a rookie free up Von while setting the edge in run defense like Wolfe? At the beginning of the year I didn't like Wolfe at DE, but when I found out/saw we were two gapping, he really grew on me at DE..

Time will tell if we stay as a masked 3-4 or switch thing up to a more traditional 4-3 with Wolfe at UT. Personally I like the scheme how it is and would improve on it, rather than make new changes..
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:39 PM   #100
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Truthfully price either way could work, but if you move Wolfe inside you need a DE, if you leave Wolfe at DE you need a pressure DT. Your substituting one for one. It depends who's available come #28 and then you factor in that it takes rookie DTs time to develop and that puts us back at square one where it's just our best guess..
Great analysis. An impact UT is perhaps the most difficult player to find (other than QB). We have one in Wolfe. I think he is a better UT than any other UT the Broncos are going to find at #28 (including Kawann Short, who is older than Wolfe BTW). I would be happy with Sam Montgomery or (possibly) Datone Jones at #28. Bannan should be (and has always) been a backup.


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My question is can Ayers, or Jackson, or Beal, or Hunter, or a FA, or a rookie free up Von while setting the edge in run defense like Wolfe? At the beginning of the year I didn't like Wolfe at DE, but when I found out/saw we were two gapping, he really grew on me at DE.
Robert Ayers - Never been a pass rusher (only 3 sacks as a Sr. in college, his "big" year).
Malik Jackson - Could be a poor man's Datone Jones (don't know, I haven't really seen him play). Not fast, and not many sacks in college.
Jason Hunter - Perennial backup, averages 2 sacks per year in his 6 year NFL career. The only reason he was a starter before he was injured was because he was trying harder than everyone else in training camp and starting fights every day.
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