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Old 02-12-2013, 09:55 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
All you people who actually believe the whole Bin Laden story kill me. "Hey we just killed the most infamous terrorist of all time. Let's load him onto a boat and dump him into the ocean according to Muslim tradition."
Alright MacGruder... I would think Al-Qeada would fall over themselves at the chance to prove the American government wrong. We're coming up on two years out and they've confirmed the kill and haven't released a public statement from Osama since.

Do you think the CIA got naked pictures of his mom or something to shut him up? This guy isn't well known for his cooperation with the U.S. government.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:01 AM   #27
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All you people who actually believe the whole Bin Laden story kill me. "Hey we just killed the most infamous terrorist of all time. Let's load him onto a boat and dump him into the ocean according to Muslim tradition."

Seriously guys, after the long and extensive history our government has of lying to us why are you so quick to believe them? Bin Laden was probably in a CIA prison for years and either died of natural causes or was killed when he was no longer useful. Hell maybe he got vaporized by a bomb years ago. All the speculation aside, their haste to dispose of the body before anyone could actually look at it should arouse the suspicions of every rational individual on the planet.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:02 AM   #28
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The guy was burnt out. What, would you prefer having a burnt out SEAL continue to go on the most dangerous missions so he could get his retirement benefits?

I don't know, I am so in awe of SF that when hearing about 1 or more of them getting screwed by the government it just makes my blood boil. And this travesty needs to be dealt with. And if the government won't do anything about it, a few private charities need to get going to help these heroes out.

Like me, I'm a vet, did 4 years and out, didn't see any combat, I'd have gone if sent but I'm glad I didn't see any. If someone were to ever come up to me and say I'm a hero, I'd tell em to **** off. Cuz I'm not anywhere close to this guy. I might make it 3 or 4 days of SF training before quitting or washing out. This guy and his team members are better people than me. And better people than 99% of the world. This guy and his team members have done more for this country than 99% of the rest of us combined. And to think that he got the same kind of benefits that I got when I got out? Its total bull****. What in the hell can he put on a resume?
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:04 AM   #29
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Alright MacGruder... I would think Al-Qeada would fall over themselves at the chance to prove the American government wrong. We're coming up on two years out and they've confirmed the kill and haven't released a public statement from Osama since.

Do you think the CIA got naked pictures of his mom or something to shut him up? This guy isn't well known for his cooperation with the U.S. government.
Bro the Illuminati runs both sides, you know that.

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Old 02-12-2013, 10:59 AM   #30
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Blackwater changed it's name twice. It was Xe Services and now it's Academi.

Why? Because they partake in criminal activity and tried to save face.

But do they get in trouble? No. Just fines. How typical.

(And I'm not trying to be offensive to your bro Rabb.)
Oh believe me, none taken brother.

He's an epic a-hole anyhow.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:08 AM   #31
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This sounds entirely too freaking Whiny to be a Seal team member, let alone a ST6 member. I have a couple buddies I shoot with who were Seals and their East Coast Sniper Academy is 45 minutes from my house. This is NOT the attititude of a "Quiet Professional" let alone one at the top of Tier One.

I am stunned at the way the government treats these guys when they muster out, but come on. These guys have skills most consulting companies would DIE to have in there personnel. These guys have tremendous work effort, do NOT complain, and are one of the most highly motivated get the Job done people EVER.

I work with several service groups who help place guys like this, and its absolutely stunning none of them have reached out to this guy. I for one will make sure someone in VB gets a head up on this, but I am sure someone there has already read the article.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:36 PM   #32
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Let's cut more money from defense. Shyt there's talk of going away from the pension and just doing a 401k for the military.
It's too bad there isn't more of a graduated system of retirement benefits for our military. You should get more benefits sticking around for 19 years than someone who does 4. I'm no expert, so maybe you do, but my impression is that isn't the case.

Cutting military spending should be (and mostly is) about eliminating spending on unneeded weapons development and procurement, and reducing the active force to levels appropriate for our current commitments (which have been reduced as we extricate ourselves from our major wars). We should take some of the savings and drastically increase our funding for veteran's support, in particular health-care (especially mental health), and programs to transition to civilian life. These aren't regular jobs, and shouldn't be treated as such. It is our responsibility to allow our military personnel to re-enter civilian life with as little trauma as possible.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:41 PM   #33
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This sounds entirely too freaking Whiny to be a Seal team member, let alone a ST6 member. I have a couple buddies I shoot with who were Seals and their East Coast Sniper Academy is 45 minutes from my house. This is NOT the attititude of a "Quiet Professional" let alone one at the top of Tier One.

I am stunned at the way the government treats these guys when they muster out, but come on. These guys have skills most consulting companies would DIE to have in there personnel. These guys have tremendous work effort, do NOT complain, and are one of the most highly motivated get the Job done people EVER.

I work with several service groups who help place guys like this, and its absolutely stunning none of them have reached out to this guy. I for one will make sure someone in VB gets a head up on this, but I am sure someone there has already read the article.
I was surprised by this as well. I've known a couple of ex-SEALs and you won't find people who are more dedicated and task driven. One of the guys I know would always tell me that getting through SEAL training isn't about being the strongest, toughest, most bad-ass warrior. It's 90% mental toughness, the ability to endure extremely stressful environments and stay focused on the task at hand.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:50 PM   #34
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The government has went under a mass initiative in the past sixth months after an executive order that happened in 2010 which boosted the Feds Hire Vets program. I think Obama also said he was in favor of a tax credit to employers who hire veterans. Not sure if that every went through or made a mark. Programs are there, I just think awareness of them is down.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:13 PM   #35
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http://gawker.com/5983541/despite-es...to-health-care

In the wake of the Esquire article's publication, which prompted a wave of media coverage (including here on Gawker), Stars and Stripes reporter Megan McCloskey did some digging and discovered that one of the main cruxes of the piece—that the the SEAL shooter receives no health coverage from the government—is inaccurate. Like other Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, asserts McCloskey, the SEAL is eligible for five years of free medical care upon retirement, a fact Esquire writer Phil Bronstein left out of his piece.

The writer, Phil Bronstein, who heads up the Center for Investigative Reporting, stands by the story. He said the assertion that the government gave the SEAL "nothing" in terms of health care is both fair and accurate, because the SEAL didn't know the VA benefits existed.
The guy didn't retire. I do recall them offering something like the 18 month healthcare when I transitioned out but I didn't need it so I'm not sure the exacts of it. The claim here just doesn't make any sense.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:15 PM   #36
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It's too bad there isn't more of a graduated system of retirement benefits for our military. You should get more benefits sticking around for 19 years than someone who does 4. I'm no expert, so maybe you do, but my impression is that isn't the case.
The military folks actually get two pensions: Their retirement and their "disability". It used to be that you essentially only got one but they've changed that. I was in 7 years, I get 20 or 30% retirement so a few hundred bucks a month. That's with almost nothing wrong with me (and getting f'd over by VA in a paperwork mess I was too lazy to fix). Guys who spend the better part of two decades will have a laundry list of problems they'll get compensated for.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:19 PM   #37
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This sounds entirely too freaking Whiny to be a Seal team member, let alone a ST6 member. I have a couple buddies I shoot with who were Seals and their East Coast Sniper Academy is 45 minutes from my house. This is NOT the attititude of a "Quiet Professional" let alone one at the top of Tier One.

I am stunned at the way the government treats these guys when they muster out, but come on. These guys have skills most consulting companies would DIE to have in there personnel. These guys have tremendous work effort, do NOT complain, and are one of the most highly motivated get the Job done people EVER.

I work with several service groups who help place guys like this, and its absolutely stunning none of them have reached out to this guy. I for one will make sure someone in VB gets a head up on this, but I am sure someone there has already read the article.
I'm just not buying the story, personally. Sounds like a publicity cry, to me.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:21 PM   #38
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The guy didn't retire. I do recall them offering something like the 18 month healthcare when I transitioned out but I didn't need it so I'm not sure the exacts of it. The claim here just doesn't make any sense.
Huh? From the article:

"By early September of last year, the Shooter was out, officially. Retired."

The editor who ran the story says the story is making a point about the difficult and byzantine nature of the VA system, and how it is broken, and how it has affected this particular guy.

The original piece makes no such argument. It could have made that argument, but it did not, because it was badly edited. Esquire chose to publish a sweeping, overwrought account of how this hapless SEAL was "screwed" by the system—utterly abandoned—rather than presenting the case that the current system is inadequate and frustrating and difficult to navigate. That would have been a good case to make, but the story did not make it, and now the editors are trying to backfill the work they didn't do in the first place.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:24 PM   #39
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Huh? From the article:

"By early September of last year, the Shooter was out, officially. Retired."

The editor who ran the story says the story is making a point about the difficult and byzantine nature of the VA system, and how it is broken, and how it has affected this particular guy.

The original piece makes no such argument. It could have made that argument, but it did not, because it was badly edited. Esquire chose to publish a sweeping, overwrought account of how this hapless SEAL was "screwed" by the system—utterly abandoned—rather than presenting the case that the current system is inadequate and frustrating and difficult to navigate. That would have been a good case to make, but the story did not make it, and now the editors are trying to backfill the work they didn't do in the first place.
He didn't retire - that's where this mess came from. If he'd retired, he'd have healthcare. He got out at 16 so that's the same, in that regard, as getting out after 3.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #40
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The guy was burnt out. What, would you prefer having a burnt out SEAL continue to go on the most dangerous missions so he could get his retirement benefits?

I don't know, I am so in awe of SF that when hearing about 1 or more of them getting screwed by the government it just makes my blood boil. And this travesty needs to be dealt with. And if the government won't do anything about it, a few private charities need to get going to help these heroes out.

Like me, I'm a vet, did 4 years and out, didn't see any combat, I'd have gone if sent but I'm glad I didn't see any. If someone were to ever come up to me and say I'm a hero, I'd tell em to **** off. Cuz I'm not anywhere close to this guy. I might make it 3 or 4 days of SF training before quitting or washing out. This guy and his team members are better people than me. And better people than 99% of the world. This guy and his team members have done more for this country than 99% of the rest of us combined. And to think that he got the same kind of benefits that I got when I got out? Its total bull****. What in the hell can he put on a resume?
No one is question his honor or fact that he did his duty, but he made very bad decision. I am sure that everyone in his command from the CO on down told him what would happen and gave him options. If he was burned out but needed the years they could have gotten him something down in Little Creek or NB Norfolk that could done his time and been home by 1600 every day. Heck he could walk right into Veteran Civilian Intern Billet for the DoN and had a job in Civil Service if he wanted it.

BTW I think there is more to this story then what been reported.

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Old 02-12-2013, 03:34 PM   #41
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http://gawker.com/5983541/despite-es...to-health-care

In the wake of the Esquire article's publication, which prompted a wave of media coverage (including here on Gawker), Stars and Stripes reporter Megan McCloskey did some digging and discovered that one of the main cruxes of the piece—that the the SEAL shooter receives no health coverage from the government—is inaccurate. Like other Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, asserts McCloskey, the SEAL is eligible for five years of free medical care upon retirement, a fact Esquire writer Phil Bronstein left out of his piece.

The writer, Phil Bronstein, who heads up the Center for Investigative Reporting, stands by the story. He said the assertion that the government gave the SEAL "nothing" in terms of health care is both fair and accurate, because the SEAL didn't know the VA benefits existed.
My dad goes to the VA and gets free or very reduced treatment and he has been out of the service for 45 years. Did they change coverage for VA services down to 5 years? That would suck.

I am surprised they don't have a better outplacement support in place for these guys. What is the line about teaching a man to fish? In the end it is his life and he has to make the transition himself. Sure people are making money off the event but he needs to focus on his life and what he can control.

I am all for giving these hero's unlimited healthcare (through the VA) and the support (mental and outplacement) he needs to adapt to civilian life but I am not for giving them anything. They need to forge their own paths through the rest of their lives. If anything the armed forces should have these guys thinking about life after the service the whole time they are in it.

I have been through a sudden life change and it sucks but I got through it by having goals, plans and doing what I could to make my life better.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:04 PM   #42
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As for the Seal not knowing about benefits, he must have skipped out on his mandatory separation briefings.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:11 PM   #43
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Alright MacGruder... I would think Al-Qeada would fall over themselves at the chance to prove the American government wrong. We're coming up on two years out and they've confirmed the kill and haven't released a public statement from Osama since.

Do you think the CIA got naked pictures of his mom or something to shut him up? This guy isn't well known for his cooperation with the U.S. government.
My guess is that he was already dead, was secretly being held prisoner and died, or was captured and is now secretly being interrogated for intel while being officially dead, though I don't pretend to know one way or the other. What I do know is that you have to be one gullible idiot (which most Americans clearly are) to just nod your head when the U.S. government, known to be full of pathological liars, say "hey we killed that uber-evil guy everyone was looking for, but you can't see his body to confirm it was really him because we dumped it in the ocean".
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:11 PM   #44
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Just because he shot Bin Laden doesn't mean he is more special then the soldier who shot at jow blow terrorist. We should be making sure they all get medical care and help when they get home.

With another 34 thousand coming back from Afghanistan soon this will be really important.

My buddy only did 4 yrs in the marines, got discharged because of an injury. He recently went to the local VA and got bennies so no way they cut people off. He served way back in the early 90's. Not sure what he is getting but he told me starting in march he will be going to the VA for healthcare. It is taking him awhile to get signed up.

Taking care of troops should be one of those easy issues both sides agree on. Govt should be happy and pass a veteran jobs bill or even a tax cut.

I would have no problem with say giving former soliders a few years of a tax break after they are honorably discharged.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:13 PM   #45
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My guess is that he was already dead, was secretly being held prisoner and died, or was captured and is now secretly being interrogated for intel while being officially dead, though I don't pretend to know one way or the other. What I do know is that you have to be one gullible idiot (which most Americans clearly are) to just nod your head when the U.S. government, known to be full of pathological liars, say "hey we killed that uber-evil guy everyone was looking for, but you can't see his body to confirm it was really him because we dumped it in the ocean".
I sort of believe them but its not out of the realm of possibility we don't know exactly what happened or that he could be alive still.

Jimmy Carter kept the Argo thing a secret when it could have helped him. For all we know our govt knew where bin laden was for a long long long time before they killed him.

I do believe they got him though because the other side admitted we got him. Hard to lie about that.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:34 PM   #46
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I sort of believe them but its not out of the realm of possibility we don't know exactly what happened or that he could be alive still.

Jimmy Carter kept the Argo thing a secret when it could have helped him. For all we know our govt knew where bin laden was for a long long long time before they killed him.

I do believe they got him though because the other side admitted we got him. Hard to lie about that.
What other side? A few anecdotal "Yes I saw them kill him" from family members? Al Jazeera, who are no better informed on the matter than the western media? Yeah none of that really holds any water. If they killed him when and where they say they did, why is there zero actual evidence of it?

The official story is swiss cheese and all Freedom of Information Act requests for actual proof have been denied by our government. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around all the people accepting the government's story despite all the signs that it's bull****.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #47
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Just because he shot Bin Laden doesn't mean he is more special then the soldier who shot at jow blow terrorist. We should be making sure they all get medical care and help when they get home.

With another 34 thousand coming back from Afghanistan soon this will be really important.

My buddy only did 4 yrs in the marines, got discharged because of an injury. He recently went to the local VA and got bennies so no way they cut people off. He served way back in the early 90's. Not sure what he is getting but he told me starting in march he will be going to the VA for healthcare. It is taking him awhile to get signed up.

Taking care of troops should be one of those easy issues both sides agree on. Govt should be happy and pass a veteran jobs bill or even a tax cut.

I would have no problem with say giving former soliders a few years of a tax break after they are honorably discharged.
It took my dad a while to get signed up too but it is the best benefit he has ever had from any employer in his whole life.

He went in dragging and kicking but loves it now, he has people of his age who experienced the same type of things he did he can talk to.

People look down at VA's because they think they are 2nd rate but actually they have improved leaps and bounds over the last 10+ years. He might not get a private room but the quality of Doctors is very high.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:10 PM   #48
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My guess is that he was already dead, was secretly being held prisoner and died, or was captured and is now secretly being interrogated for intel while being officially dead, though I don't pretend to know one way or the other. What I do know is that you have to be one gullible idiot (which most Americans clearly are) to just nod your head when the U.S. government, known to be full of pathological liars, say "hey we killed that uber-evil guy everyone was looking for, but you can't see his body to confirm it was really him because we dumped it in the ocean".
Area 51...just sayin...
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:23 PM   #49
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My guess is that he was already dead, was secretly being held prisoner and died, or was captured and is now secretly being interrogated for intel while being officially dead, though I don't pretend to know one way or the other. What I do know is that you have to be one gullible idiot (which most Americans clearly are) to just nod your head when the U.S. government, known to be full of pathological liars, say "hey we killed that uber-evil guy everyone was looking for, but you can't see his body to confirm it was really him because we dumped it in the ocean".
Wait.. so you think he might've been captured that night... or he might not've. He might be dead... or he might not be. You're just adamant that the story that he was captured and is now dead is impossible.

You're literally just deciding the government lied for absolutely no reason and you have no idea what the lie could be.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:54 PM   #50
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so much of this story smells. first, if he left at 16 yrs, he either was mustered out for cause or he left on his own. nobody, i mean NOBODY, in the military does not know the retirement impact of leaving at 16. you are briefed on it. now, there used to be a graduated retirement at 15, but i don't know if its still in effect. apparently not.
second, every security company in the world would die to get an ex seal on staff, for a lot more than a chief petty officer's pay. so, what's up with that?
there has to be more to the story than what we read.
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