Kiper 07 Feb '13 Mock

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Watson has played in 20 football games in his life. Twelve out of fourteen this year with the Seminoles. He's an absolute freak, but extremely raw and will be a 25 year old rookie. He is going to get over drafted because of he will likely go off at Indianapolis and has all-world athleticism. For someone so new to football, he was quite impressive this year at Florida State. He has only played RT and I expect that to continue into the NFL. He has good mobility and would be an ideal fit for a heavy ZBS.

He received a second round grade from the advisory committee, but I think Watson is a tough sell for a team in the first round. You really have to believe he is going to be a difference maker. I don't see it. He was good for his limited experience, but he missed some key blocks this year and had trouble on picking up assignments in the next level. Mentally I just don't think he is all there yet. Too big of a gamble in regards to ROI. You could consider him at the end of second if there aren't better options under the premise that Franklin is moved inside -- but I just don't see that happening unless Kuper doesn't get better.

Watson simply isn't a realistic option for us @ 28. I don't see how it helps the team out immediately -- which is what a first pick should do.

Just my two cents as a Noles fan.

Watson has a tremendous talent, almost like Ezekiel Ansah. The problem is OL have to be consistent every down players and most teams believe he does not have the exeperience to start Right away in the NFL. I am not so sure he could not start at RT right away in some places with huge RT problems.

What I would do is call him a Horrible value pick before the late second round. He is so much like Bruce Campbell of Maryland coming out to me. Immensely talented, but not technically sound enough to play and impact right away. Campbell lasted to the fourth round and with such a solid OL group I think late third to early fourth is where he will really get picked. Heck the raiders traded Campbell to the Panthers last year after a slow start for him.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

Watson has a tremendous talent, almost like Ezekiel Ansah. The problem is OL have to be consistent every down players and most teams believe he does not have the exeperience to start Right away in the NFL. I am not so sure he could not start at RT right away in some places with huge RT problems.

What I would do is call him a Horrible value pick before the late second round. He is so much like Bruce Campbell of Maryland coming out to me. Immensely talented, but not technically sound enough to play and impact right away. Campbell lasted to the fourth round and with such a solid OL group I think late third to early fourth is where he will really get picked. Heck the raiders traded Campbell to the Panthers last year after a slow start for him.

Good thoughts and pretty much lined up with how I feel. I was absolutely shocked when they reported what the advisory committee gave him as a round grade. I know it is just an estimate, but I was flabbergasted. I remember at least a half dozen plays from the game against Miami this year where he got absolutely ragdolled on the edge and missed blocks downfield because his field awareness is not all there.

As you said, the experience + mental factor (still so much to learn) downgrades him big time for me. I think there will be a team that gambles on him (Raiders again? ), but I agree with your value placement on him as a player. Nobody is going to question his athletic ability, but I expect him to have a hard time when teams interview him and bring up the X's and O's on the whiteboard because of his inexperience. I've been wrong before, but ya never know. I just don't think he makes an impact right away, which is why I was surprised with pricejj having him as a first round target.

He's a Nole, so I gotta wish him the best. I know the coaching staff was pretty miffed that he declared and ultimately surprised. That is one position where we couldn't afford to lose talent at this coming season. We need more OL @ FSU. It's too bad the one four star guy we recruited has concussion problems and cannot even play, nice of Fisher and staff to honor the scholarship for him so he can still get an education.

[BroncosfanGuy]

Originally Posted by Rascal

I have zero confidence in Brooking. He was a huge liability against the pass and will only continue to get worse. He is not startable at this point in his career. He is a FA and I'd be surprised to see him picked up outside of a backup spot. There is a reason why he was a FA so late last year. The defense improving under his tenure speaks more about the ineptitude of Joe Mays than anything.

I agree. The D played better after he stepped in in part because Denver had finished playing its toughest opponents too. Brooking was a stopgap and I think there has to be a contingency plan should Irving not be the answer at mike. I'm still not sure what Irving did to give the impression that he can be the man in the middle going forward. Hope he can be, but I think it's pretty much wishful thinking at this point.

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I just don't think he makes an impact right away, which is why I was surprised with pricejj having him as a first round target.

I am looking for value in the 1st round. Kuper's status, and Clady's pending enormous contract have me looking for possible franchise OT's at the bottom of the 1st, in case Montgomery is off the board. If Watson can't be a franchise OT, then forget about it. Had no idea he is pushing 25 with only 20 games experience.

I think the Broncos need 2 impact starters out of their first 2 picks in 2013. Two guys that would get them over the top for a SB win. I'm looking for massive upgrades out of DE, OL, CB, and MLB.

The DT's confuse me, because even though there are some good prospects. I don't think drafting one in the 1st puts the Broncos over the top.

Te'o is on my list, because he would be a big difference maker towards giving the Broncos the ability to stop the run out of Nickel formation. He fights through blocks so well, and is a textbook tackler...even if he is a bit slow on pursuit to the edge.

[Mediator12]

Best impact players in this draft would be WR, OL, LB, and DB. A lot of guys who can come in and play right away, no matter where they are drafted.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

Best impact players in this draft would be WR, OL, LB, and DB. A lot of guys who can come in and play right away, no matter where they are drafted.

Bold claim considering the learning curve WRs generally experience.

[cutthemdown]

I heard that there are not pro ready middle linebackers in great abundance this yr in either FA or the draft. It may not be the year to get a young middle linebacker. But Broncos may not want that. They may just look for some linebackers who can cover better, and then grab a big fat DT to shore up the early down run defense.

Still though big fat DT run out of gas at Mile High. Broncos always seem to go for the more athletic ones like Wolfe, the tweeners. I had Wolfe on my list of players Broncos would look at last yr and many people thought I was crazy.

But they like players like that, ones that can move around with really high motors.

So IMO if they go DT it will be a physically fit one with a trememdous reputation for playing hard every down. I haven't read up on this yrs draft to know who those guys are yet but IMO they won't be changing their way of thinking.

They will look for fast linebackers and athletic front 7 guys in general.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Bold claim considering the learning curve WRs generally experience.

Same goes for DB and OL.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Same goes for DB and OL.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I heard that there are not pro ready middle linebackers in great abundance this yr in either FA or the draft. It may not be the year to get a young middle linebacker. But Broncos may not want that. They may just look for some linebackers who can cover better, and then grab a big fat DT to shore up the early down run defense.

Still though big fat DT run out of gas at Mile High. Broncos always seem to go for the more athletic ones like Wolfe, the tweeners. I had Wolfe on my list of players Broncos would look at last yr and many people thought I was crazy.

But they like players like that, ones that can move around with really high motors.

So IMO if they go DT it will be a physically fit one with a trememdous reputation for playing hard every down. I haven't read up on this yrs draft to know who those guys are yet but IMO they won't be changing their way of thinking.

They will look for fast linebackers and athletic front 7 guys in general.

Sounds like Sheldon Richardson to me, though he may be gone before we pick.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

What's so funny? Neither of those positions have traditionally been easy to transition to in the NFL (there's been exceptions lately, but that doesn't really change things overall). LB and RB are the only two positions where you can generally count on rookies thriving. Though yes CB and OL isn't as steep a learning curve as WR.

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by BroncosfanGuy

I agree. The D played better after he stepped in in part because Denver had finished playing its toughest opponents too. Brooking was a stopgap and I think there has to be a contingency plan should Irving not be the answer at mike. I'm still not sure what Irving did to give the impression that he can be the man in the middle going forward. Hope he can be, but I think it's pretty much wishful thinking at this point.

To the fan nothing, but maybe he has shown something in practice. Even if he has, practice is simply practice and I can't see the Broncos relying solely on that.

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by Rascal

To the fan nothing, but maybe he has shown something in practice. Even if he has, practice is simply practice and I can't see the Broncos relying solely on that.

I would take Nate Irving at MIKE any day of the week over Arthur Brown. Irving was an All-American in 2010, and a TFL machine.

The Broncos only moved Irving to SOLB after Keith Brooking joined the squad in Aug. 2012. Brooking made the team (even though he didn't even practice), because Fox/JDR knew that Mays was a big question mark. Irving showed so much progress this year (in very limited snaps), that the Broncos switched him back to MIKE to fight for the starting job in camp (as reported by the Denver Post). There is little doubt in my mind that Nate Irving could do just as good of a job as Keith Brooking did in 2012 at MIKE (and probably much better).


He's no slouch, watch his college video. He tracks well, has minimal false-steps, delivers big hits, and often catches the ball-carrier in the backfield. Everything you want out of a MIKE. You don't just throw away guys like Irving, because he hasn't broken into the league like a superstar. I think he's going to be a big player for the Broncos in 2013. I also think Keith Brooking will be resigned at $1M per to backup at MLB. They will also keep Steven Johnson. DJ will be cut (probably this week).

All the Broncos need to do is find a backup SOLB to Von Miller, which they can find in the 5th round.

Currently taking bets that Irving will be starting at MLB in 2013...

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Bold claim considering the learning curve WRs generally experience.

I am not talking #1 WR of course. I am talking slot WR where there is an amazing number of guys capable of coming in and playing due to the new Spread offenses. However, there are a bunch of guys like TY Hilton and Ryan Broyles who can come in and be difference makers in this offense in the slot.

There are no complete WR's in this draft Like AJ Green or Julio Jones. Guys who can come in and dominate inside or outside. However, the college game is making Slot WR's better and more ready than ever.

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I heard that there are not pro ready middle linebackers in great abundance this yr in either FA or the draft. It may not be the year to get a young middle linebacker. But Broncos may not want that. They may just look for some linebackers who can cover better, and then grab a big fat DT to shore up the early down run defense.

Still though big fat DT run out of gas at Mile High. Broncos always seem to go for the more athletic ones like Wolfe, the tweeners. I had Wolfe on my list of players Broncos would look at last yr and many people thought I was crazy.

But they like players like that, ones that can move around with really high motors.

So IMO if they go DT it will be a physically fit one with a trememdous reputation for playing hard every down. I haven't read up on this yrs draft to know who those guys are yet but IMO they won't be changing their way of thinking.

They will look for fast linebackers and athletic front 7 guys in general.

I doubt the accuracy of the no 4-3 MLB's available statement. I have seen several very good MLB's available in FA already and The draft has at least 3-4 second day players worth a look IMHO.

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by pricejj

I would take Nate Irving at MIKE any day of the week over Arthur Brown. Irving was an All-American in 2010, and a TFL machine.

The Broncos only moved Irving to SOLB after Keith Brooking joined the squad in Aug. 2012. Brooking made the team (even though he didn't even practice), because Fox/JDR knew that Mays was a big question mark. Irving showed so much progress this year (in very limited snaps), that the Broncos switched him back to MIKE to fight for the starting job in camp (as reported by the Denver Post). There is little doubt in my mind that Nate Irving could do just as good of a job as Keith Brooking did in 2012 at MIKE (and probably much better).


He's no slouch, watch his college video. He tracks well, has minimal false-steps, delivers big hits, and often catches the ball-carrier in the backfield. Everything you want out of a MIKE. You don't just throw away guys like Irving, because he hasn't broken into the league like a superstar. I think he's going to be a big player for the Broncos in 2013. I also think Keith Brooking will be resigned at $1M per to backup at MLB. They will also keep Steven Johnson. DJ will be cut (probably this week).

All the Broncos need to do is find a backup SOLB to Von Miller, which they can find in the 5th round.

Currently taking bets that Irving will be starting at MLB in 2013...

That report you mentioned from Denver post was pure conjecture and writers opinion. I don't recall seeing anything in that article that was not journalism subjectiveness (i.e. throwing **** on the wall and seeing if it sticks). I know, because I inaccurately posted it here.

[pricejj]

Originally Posted by Rascal

That report you mentioned from Denver post was pure conjecture and writers opinion. I don't recall seeing anything in that article that was not journalism subjectiveness (i.e. throwing **** on the wall and seeing if it sticks). I know, because I inaccurately posted it here.

I don't doubt that Irving has been moved to MLB. I also don't doubt that the Broncos told him he would have the chance to compete to start in 2013. No reason to make up either claim.

Brooking didn't stand out in 2012, but I think the Broncos were happy with him. Irving can play better than Brooking. Besides the 14 year age difference, Nate has the ability to blow plays up in the backfield that would make Old man Brooking's hamstrings quiver. If the Broncos were comfortable trotting out Joe Mays, they'll be ecstatic about starting Nate Irving.

Irving stacks up well against any MIKE that you're going to find at #58 or lower in this draft.

[schaaf]

John Elway said just today during his combine presser he drafted Irving to be the man in the middle and that he will get his chance this year. Goes hand in hand with what the Denver Post reported

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

I doubt the accuracy of the no 4-3 MLB's available statement. I have seen several very good MLB's available in FA already and The draft has at least 3-4 second day players worth a look IMHO.

Not saying there aren't a couple players to take a look at only that I don't see any stud sure thing MLB in the draft or FA IMO. But it would be look saying there aren't any great qbs for a team like Andrew Luck this yr. That would be true but it would not mean there isn't a Tom Brady in the 6th round. There are always players to "TAKE A LOOK AT".

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by schaaf

John Elway said just today during his combine presser he drafted Irving to be the man in the middle and that he will get his chance this year. Goes hand in hand with what the Denver Post reported

How dare he go against the Mane! Who does he think he is a HOF with 2 Superbowl rings? Oh wait.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by SpringStein

I can't post it all, but Kiper had us taking Kawann Short, DT, Purdue in his second mock released today.

FYI - Ogletree went #8 to Bills.
We passed on Elam (Pats), Jenkins (9ers) and Minter (Ravens)

He had zero QBs going in round 1. That would be a surprise. Biggest riser that I noticed was Quinton Patton, WR, Louisiana Tech going to Texans at #27.

I would be bummed if we passed on Elam.

[Requiem]

Only you and Inferno.

[Br0nc0Buster]

on an unrelated note, I am not quite sure about the Minter hype from some on here

Maybe there are specific games some have in mind of him dominating, but from what I saw at LSU he is a solid but unspectacular player

I also have always been on the Trufant and Rhodes train, but it looks like they will be gone now

I wonder if that Cyprien(?) guy will be there for our second
He intrigues me even though I have not seen much of his film

[Shananahan]

Somebody help me entertain my fantasy of Richardson falling to us.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Shananahan

Somebody help me entertain my fantasy of Richardson falling to us.

He gets caught smokin crack night before the draft.