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Old 02-11-2013, 12:29 PM   #126
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I had an Accord before and its a solid car, hell the new one looks like the 335! I drove it to 150 as well and the cheaper gas is nice. The V6 engine does leave something to be desired. My wifes Optima has more juice and it does not require premium either.
What year did you have? My 2006 V6 is fine with me.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:57 PM   #127
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Hahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!

Good Lord, I'm so ahead of the curve! check out this crap, it backs up my rant on German cars being homogenous, plastic, cookie cutter machines:

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/has-volk...192022985.html

PS--I wouldn't by a new VW. Quality is questionable and as other's have mentioned, the parts on German cars (which VW claims to be lol) are over the top.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:45 PM   #128
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Hahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!

Good Lord, I'm so ahead of the curve! check out this crap, it backs up my rant on German cars being homogenous, plastic, cookie cutter machines:

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/has-volk...192022985.html

PS--I wouldn't by a new VW. Quality is questionable and as other's have mentioned, the parts on German cars (which VW claims to be lol) are over the top.
shouldn't this make their parts cheaper in the long run? i actually love the gti, was going to buy one, love the engine and utility of hatchbacks. i'm holding out until 2014-15 if audi launches the a3 sportback tdi quattro, that's mine.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:12 PM   #129
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shouldn't this make their parts cheaper in the long run? i actually love the gti, was going to buy one, love the engine and utility of hatchbacks. i'm holding out until 2014-15 if audi launches the a3 sportback tdi quattro, that's mine.
Nope, it just makes the profits larger for these big conglomerates. More modular is not better. It's just more modular.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:12 PM   #130
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Hahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!

Good Lord, I'm so ahead of the curve! check out this crap, it backs up my rant on German cars being homogenous, plastic, cookie cutter machines:

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/has-volk...192022985.html

PS--I wouldn't by a new VW. Quality is questionable and as other's have mentioned, the parts on German cars (which VW claims to be lol) are over the top.
Well, technically, their MQB platform will (potentially) drive down the cost of parts in the near future. Quality on the new VW's are pretty solid, imo...I've sold/leased 15 jettas/passats/tiguans in the last 8 months, and even their BASE models have a well built feel. Obviously, the reliability remains to be seen, but they have some of the most inexpensive lease options on the market, and are producing some solid vehicles. The only companiues I'm MORE impressed with right now (in terms of innovation, quality, and pricing), are Ford and Subaru.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #131
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Nope, it just makes the profits larger for these big conglomerates. More modular is not better. It's just more modular.
I'm going to disagree. Obviously, we have to wait and see how it pans out, but the whole business model is designed around having inexpensive parts that can be utilized by a multitude of platforms. SO, instead of having to buy that aerodynamically designed hand crafted blinker fluid container, there will be an interchangeable surplus of them hanging around. Now, CHANGING that part might still be a colossal biotch, and require $100 plus dollars an hour in labor (haha), but the part itself will in theory be more inexpensive.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:18 PM   #132
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Well, technically, their MQB platform will (potentially) drive down the cost of parts in the near future. Quality on the new VW's are pretty solid, imo...I've sold/leased 15 jettas/passats/tiguans in the last 8 months, and even their BASE models have a well built feel. Obviously, the reliability remains to be seen, but they have some of the most inexpensive lease options on the market, and are producing some solid vehicles. The only companiues I'm MORE impressed with right now (in terms of innovation, quality, and pricing), are Ford and Subaru.
It will increase profits, not necessarily drive down costs. These savings won't be passed on to the customer, especially when fixing your car. You have to remember that fixing and servicing cars is the bread and butter of dealerships, not new car sales. There may be some plateauing of up front pricing on these vehicles but that's about it.

You want to invest in a great German machine--buy a Porsche. Porsche is NOT a car company. It's an engineering firm that just happens to make great cars.

Here's another little fact: Porsche had the chance to BUY VW. That's right, it had the chance to buy the majority shares in VW but it said "hell no."

Porsche knows what it's doing.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:21 PM   #133
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I'm going to disagree. Obviously, we have to wait and see how it pans out, but the whole business model is designed around having inexpensive parts that can be utilized by a multitude of platforms. SO, instead of having to buy that aerodynamically designed hand crafted blinker fluid container, there will be an interchangeable surplus of them hanging around. Now, CHANGING that part might still be a colossal biotch, and require $100 plus dollars an hour in labor (haha), but the part itself will in theory be more inexpensive.
Well, you got that right. But the consumer won't benefit from this. Sorry.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:23 PM   #134
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Nope, it just makes the profits larger for these big conglomerates. More modular is not better. It's just more modular.
Modular is better, because it reduce production cost, supply chain cost, line start up cost and provides faster engineering and deployment. And as more companies switch their production to modular format it will decrease cost to the buy, because like computers it becomes a commodity driven market.

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Old 02-11-2013, 02:26 PM   #135
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Modular is better, because it reduce production cost, supply chain cost, lnie start up cost and provides faster engineering and deployment. And as more companies switch their production to modular format it will decrease cost to the buy, because like computers it becomes a commodity driven market.
Like I said, increased profits. But it's not necessarily better for the consumer, quality can go way down too.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:34 PM   #136
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Like I said, increased profits. But it's not necessarily better for the consumer, quality can go way down too.
Quality usually goes up, because your quality inspectors don't need to be trained in multiply pieces and when end up doesn't work correctly it easier to to identify the root cause. And profits are only going to be high when the competitive advantage is there, once the competition jumps on board it becomes price point issue to win market share.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:41 PM   #137
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Quality usually goes up, because your quality inspectors don't need to be trained in multiply pieces and when end up doesn't work correctly it easier to to identify the root cause. And profits are only going to be high when the competitive advantage is there, once the competition jumps on board it becomes price point issue to win market share.
I guess we will just agree to disagree. The cost to produce will go down for sure which will increase profit margins. However, if you got one part going into 1 million different vehicles on multiple platforms and that part fails, well then you got a problem, a massive problem. Also, if a part or a few parts have questionable quality to begin with, and a bad design, then it's a massive and systemic failure and a multitude of platforms, affecting millions of consumers all over the world.

Modularity is not new to the car industry and yes, it can be an excellent way to do some things. However, you have to be very careful on how you use it. Modularity on computers is one thing, you aren't going to be driving a computer around and if it breaks down you can get another one for $500.00 or so. Cars, not so much. JMHO of course.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:42 PM   #138
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It will increase profits, not necessarily drive down costs. These savings won't be passed on to the customer, especially when fixing your car. You have to remember that fixing and servicing cars is the bread and butter of dealerships, not new car sales. There may be some plateauing of up front pricing on these vehicles but that's about it.

You want to invest in a great German machine--buy a Porsche. Porsche is NOT a car company. It's an engineering firm that just happens to make great cars.

Here's another little fact: Porsche had the chance to BUY VW. That's right, it had the chance to buy the majority shares in VW but it said "hell no."

Porsche knows what it's doing.
If you're taking your car to a dealership to get serviced, then I also have some wonderful Volcano Insurance I'd like to talk with you about
You're absolutely right, service underwriting IS their bread and butter, and the majority of that profit comes from labor mark ups, AND part costs. Find yourself a reliable independent mechanic, and profit. The dealerships aren't going to change their labor pricing, but IMO you'll see substantial decreases in part pricing once you have a massive production increase.

As to your second point, about porsche buying out VW but saying "hell no" at the last minute...total ****ing bull****. They were doing EVERYTHING in their power to take over VW, including the increase of their shares up to 40% before the market collapsed in 2008. The ONLY reason they didn't go ahead with the market share takeover (which they are on record as saying was their ultimate goal), is because the banks wouldn't lend them any more money. Now they're owned by VW. But seriously, nice try.

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Old 02-11-2013, 02:54 PM   #139
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The dealerships aren't going to change their labor pricing, but IMO you'll see substantial decreases in part pricing once you have a massive production increase.
A few phone calls can also save alot of money.

Ford ranger, Mazda B3000 pickup, both the exact same truck. After market emergency brake cables, 3 parts, 69, 69, and 89, ford dealer 89,89,89, mazda dealer 49,49,49.

Valve cover gaskets for the 4L motor, after market 59 bucks, ford 29, mazda 49.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:05 PM   #140
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If you're taking your car to a dealership to get serviced, then I also have some wonderful Volcano Insurance I'd like to talk with you about
You're absolutely right, service underwriting IS their bread and butter, and the majority of that profit comes from labor mark ups, AND part costs. Find yourself a reliable independent mechanic, and profit. The dealerships aren't going to change their labor pricing, but IMO you'll see substantial decreases in part pricing once you have a massive production increase.

As to your second point, about porsche buying out VW but saying "hell no" at the last minute...total ****ing bull****. They were doing EVERYTHING in their power to take over VW, including the increase of their shares up to 40% before the market collapsed in 2008. The ONLY reason they didn't go ahead with the market share takeover (which they are on record as saying was their ultimate goal), is because the banks wouldn't lend them any more money. Now they're owned by VW. But seriously, nice try.
the price on the parts to the independent service shops is still the same price. Your independent guy will still have to pay to get the part. His labor may be cheaper but not the price of the part.

As for Porsche, I'm checking on what you are talking about. I don't recall VW buying Porsche.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:10 PM   #141
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the price on the parts to the independent service shops is still the same price. Your independent guy will still have to pay to get the part. His labor may be cheaper but not the price of the part.

As for Porsche, I'm checking on what you are talking about. I don't recall VW buying Porsche.
Number one. Everyone marks up the price on their parts differently. Independent shops are almost always more inexpensive in both parts cost AND labor to the consumer.

Secondly.

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...d/viewall.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...n-buys-porsche

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ory-board.html

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/01/p...ally-say-i-do/
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:11 PM   #142
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A few phone calls can also save alot of money.

Ford ranger, Mazda B3000 pickup, both the exact same truck. After market emergency brake cables, 3 parts, 69, 69, and 89, ford dealer 89,89,89, mazda dealer 49,49,49.

Valve cover gaskets for the 4L motor, after market 59 bucks, ford 29, mazda 49.
You're absolutely correct! It's pretty incredible, but most people would rather just fork over the dough then put in the time for savings.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:32 PM   #143
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Number one. Everyone marks up the price on their parts differently. Independent shops are almost always more inexpensive in both parts cost AND labor to the consumer.

Secondly.

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...d/viewall.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...n-buys-porsche

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ory-board.html

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/01/p...ally-say-i-do/
dude, I know. Point being the friggen cost of the part is the same for everyone. If the independent guy wants to make less on the part that's his call, but he's still paying the same price for the part.

As for VW buying Porsche, fair enough. It's still pretty amazing a smaller manufacturer like Porsche had the chance to buy a huge company like VW to begin with (at least the majority shares). VW now owns 50.1% of Porsche

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Old 02-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #144
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Owning 2 German cars, I never pay half of dealer price for an OEM part. There is actually a dealer that has an online parts department that sells the parts at half price. You just have to do your research and learn about your vehicle and where to get the parts. There are several online companies that specialize in selling import OEM car parts far cheaper than the dealer prices, and sometimes they have better quality parts available than the dealer.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:52 AM   #145
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Owning 2 German cars, I never pay half of dealer price for an OEM part. There is actually a dealer that has an online parts department that sells the parts at half price. You just have to do your research and learn about your vehicle and where to get the parts. There are several online companies that specialize in selling import OEM car parts far cheaper than the dealer prices, and sometimes they have better quality parts available than the dealer.
This, and I have a world Class Mechanic who specializes in upgrading German cars. We have been friends forever and I get a huge discount by sending him referrals. I have paid 1/4 of the price for repairs and upkeep the last 10 years because we network. Its actually cheaper for me to go to him than have a lesser mechanic work on the car for cheaper Labor costs.

I love dealing with independent shops too. He has sent me several clients as well including one who wanted to drive my car when he took his in to the shop! That was a good day, second largest account I have too
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:26 AM   #146
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It will be interesting to see where the independent mechanic is in the next 50 years or so, the technology for the cars is changing rapidly and they are more and more software as much as hardware.

I did speak to a family member about Porsche and basically the minnow "Porsche" got way ahead of itself on 2007 when it made a stock grab for the largest auto company in the world, VW. When the crash came in 2008 it was bad timing and Porsche was so backwards in debt from the loans it took to buy VW stock that VW eventually came in and rescued Porsche.

Its really too bad, but that's what happens when greed and power go to your head. I wouldn't be surpised if Porsche eventually goes back to being and independed manufacturer.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:15 AM   #147
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It will be interesting to see where the independent mechanic is in the next 50 years or so, the technology for the cars is changing rapidly and they are more and more software as much as hardware.

I did speak to a family member about Porsche and basically the minnow "Porsche" got way ahead of itself on 2007 when it made a stock grab for the largest auto company in the world, VW. When the crash came in 2008 it was bad timing and Porsche was so backwards in debt from the loans it took to buy VW stock that VW eventually came in and rescued Porsche.

Its really too bad, but that's what happens when greed and power go to your head. I wouldn't be surpised if Porsche eventually goes back to being and independed manufacturer.
The new mechanics have to be software specialists, its not the grease monkeys of old Sure they still get dirty, but they do their best work on the computers and prevent bad things from happening long term. They can pinpoint potential problems by running numbers every six months on the performance. Its really quite interesting, but way over my head
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:22 PM   #148
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Forget buying a car for fun. Cars are boring.

Buy a cheap boring car that gets good gas mileage and can get you from A-B in relative comfort. You can find those cheap. Ford Focus, Honda Civic, etc.

Then buy a motorcycle for fun. You can find those cheap as well. For under $5k you can find a used low mileage bike in great condition that will absolutely destroy 99.99% of the cars on the road. Plus, they are just more fun than a car.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:49 PM   #149
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Here's a video on the BRZ and where it's built in Japan, it's a little long but interesting:

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