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Old 02-09-2013, 12:29 PM   #201
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I disagree. Don't be a coward, produce a number.

Then we can subtract the minimum wage and figure out what they need to make per table per hour to be fair. Let's try this. See how it works.

What do you think they deserve? (and I didn't ask you in the first place but since you ventured in, feel free to join completely)
$20+ per hour.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:32 PM   #202
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Now that you've been b****slapped as not knowing what you're talking about, I'll let that go. Back to my previous question, though:

How much do you think a waitress should make in an hour? How much does that kind of work deserve?
Ignoring that your first line is as factually correct as Willy's IRS quote...

Where does this person work? Denny's? Outback? Chophouse? How often do they have to deal with cheap a-holes? Lots of different factors
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:33 PM   #203
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So we agree that most (if not all) servers and wait staff do not claim their entire income on their taxes, yes?
Missed this. Yes.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:35 PM   #204
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I'd offer him a beer, and comparing $4,300 in annual salary, to $18,000 doesn't seem like apples to apples in my eyes.
Really? Offer him a beer while he's working?

I just shake his hand and put a few bucks in it....he'll appreciate that more.

My point was is that he too doesn't make what you consider a living wage, but you never consider giving him a little bit of your money to help him out like you do a server though right?
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:37 PM   #205
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That doesn't change the fact the he was completely wrong himself; and more than a little hypocritical.
Hypocritical if he's wrong, yes. I assumed he was right when the guy he was arguing with agreed.

But if his point was simply to point out the guy was wrong, he did that by doing so in a way the guy instantly admitted he didn't know what he was talking about. Mission accomplished though the insult did backfire.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:38 PM   #206
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$20+ per hour.
I completely, absolutely, whole-heartedly disagree. I guess this is where the major miscommunication happens, then.

I do appreciate that you offered up a number, though.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:40 PM   #207
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Ignoring that your first line is as factually correct as Willy's IRS quote...

Where does this person work? Denny's? Outback? Chophouse? How often do they have to deal with cheap a-holes? Lots of different factors
I don't care where they have to work. 80% of the jobs are the same. They're scribes for what I want and mules from the kitchen.

In higher end restaurants where they have to know more about the food, that may be a slight difference. If they're gonna look on the menu to answer my questions, they're slightly more useful than a remote-control wheelbarrow.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:42 PM   #208
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It's 12.5% btw. I've gotten so used to 15% as a minimum that I automatically assume that now. That's my bad, I was wrong saying 15%. But 8% is straight up wrong.

Either you:
1) Claim 12.5% of all sales or
2) You claim all credit card tips and claim cash tips within 5%. So if you make a 20% CC tip, the government assumes you can make at least 15% cash tips.

When I was a waiter, I was aware of 12.5% only.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:43 PM   #209
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Really? Offer him a beer while he's working?

I just shake his hand and put a few bucks in it....he'll appreciate that more.

My point was is that he too doesn't make what you consider a living wage, but you never consider giving him a little bit of your money to help him out like you do a server though right?
I'm not going to engage in your tangential and incongruous analogy.

Not to mention that being a quality server takes far more talent and ability than throwing bags of cement into a truck, and imo deserves greater compensation.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:44 PM   #210
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Dealing with cheapskate Asshats and smiling through it all deserves more compensation than a lot of work that is far more handsomely rewarded.

Anyone who works retail,or is a public servant like a cop have to deal with ass hats and smile through it all too...and many of them don't make $20 an hour like you think waitresses and waiters should either.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:45 PM   #211
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It's 12.5% btw. I've gotten so used to 15% as a minimum that I automatically assume that now. That's my bad, I was wrong saying 15%. But 8% is straight up wrong.

Either you:
1) Claim 12.5% of all sales or
2) You claim all credit card tips and claim cash tips within 5%. So if you make a 20% CC tip, the government assumes you can make at least 15% cash tips.

When I was a waiter, I was aware of 12.5% only.
They're unskilled labor in most cases - if they're making enough to be concerned with the Federal Gov't taxation rates, they should be pretty happy. I have a feeling most don't - for good cause.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:45 PM   #212
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I don't care where they have to work. 80% of the jobs are the same. They're scribes for what I want and mules from the kitchen.

In higher end restaurants where they have to know more about the food, that may be a slight difference. If they're gonna look on the menu to answer my questions, they're slightly more useful than a remote-control wheelbarrow.
Yeah there's no way we are going to have remotely the same view on waiters.

I think they should make at least double minimum wage and you probably feel they should make closer to minimum wage?
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:47 PM   #213
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I'm not going to engage in your tangential and incongruous analogy.

Not to mention that being a quality server takes far more talent and ability than throwing bags of cement into a truck, and imo deserves greater compensation.
GTFOOH.

I'd venture 95% of the dining experience of members of the Mane are at places where waitressing takes zero talent or ability. It takes a solid work ethic and very minor familiarity with the location.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:47 PM   #214
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I completely, absolutely, whole-heartedly disagree. I guess this is where the major miscommunication happens, then.

I do appreciate that you offered up a number, though.
I'm guessing you've never worked in a restaurant. Most people who undervalue service only do so out of ignorance for what it actually entails. I make about 40x what i did when i was working in restaurants during college.

You could offer me double what I make today, and there's no way I would do it again.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:48 PM   #215
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Yeah there's no way we are going to have remotely the same view on waiters.

I think they should make at least double minimum wage and you probably feel they should make closer to minimum wage?
$12-15 would be more than fair, maybe even generous, and I just say that much because it takes some self-motivation to actually be good at it.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:49 PM   #216
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But good news for all the fiscally conservative here: now you know that you can tip 13% and you're actually giving the waiter money! You can feel good about tipping someone while saving $4.25 at the same time!
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:50 PM   #217
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GTFOOH.

I'd venture 95% of the dining experience of members of the Mane are at places where waitressing takes zero talent or ability. It takes a solid work ethic and very minor familiarity with the location.
What talent, exactly, does it take to lift bags of cement?
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:52 PM   #218
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What talent, exactly, does it take to lift bags of cement?
Muscles.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:52 PM   #219
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I'm guessing you've never worked in a restaurant. Most people who undervalue service only do so out of ignorance for what it actually entails. I make about 40x what i did when i was working in restaurants during college.

You could offer me double what I make today, and there's no way I would do it again.
I haven't.

Hard work doesn't mean anything, though. My uncle breaks his f'ing back doing construction for $10-$12 an hour, $15 on some occasions, but I wouldn't argue he deserves much more than that. It's a job someone could learn with a year, at most, on the job and just about any able-bodied male could do it.

It's not intended to be disrespectful necessarily nor to dismiss what they do. Just in the grand scheme of salaries, a tough job isn't directly proportional to high pay.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:52 PM   #220
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I'm not going to engage in your tangential and incongruous analogy.

Not to mention that being a quality server takes far more talent and ability than throwing bags of cement into a truck, and imo deserves greater compensation.
Really? How much talent does it take to bring a glass of water, or a couple of drinks, write down an order, take it to the kitchen, and then pick it up and take it back to the people who ordered it, check on then a couple of times (usually asking them how is everything when their mouths are full) and then cashing them out?

So if your argument is they are better educated (how you know that is beyond me) so they should be compensated more, then why did you go through the whole we should make up their salary because they don't earn a "living wage" liberal talking points bull****?

Most people on here will agree that the average server (even the bad ones) make more than $10-12 an hour.....
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:53 PM   #221
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What talent, exactly, does it take to lift bags of cement?
I was in the process of responding to another while you were typing this. See that post.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:54 PM   #222
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Really? How much talent does it take to bring a glass of water, or a couple of drinks, write down an order, take it to the kitchen, and then pick it up and take it back to the people who ordered it, check on then a couple of times (usually asking them how is everything when their mouths are full) and then cashing them out?
Far more than it does to "I pick them up, and I put them DOwn!"

PS-Spoken like the truly ignorant.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:07 PM   #223
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Far more than it does to "I pick them up, and I put them DOwn!"

PS-Spoken like the truly ignorant.
OK...and once again, servers make more per hour in total compensation than the car loading guy does....so why were you trying to go with the "living wage" bull****?


you posted this -

"You probably know that when you order a meal in restaurant, the person who brings you the food is generally paid less than minimum wage. Tips are supposed to make up the difference.

Here's the problem: Minimum wage for tipped employees is an appalling $2.13 an hour. And for millions of people who work in the restaurant industry, tips don't come close to providing a living wage.

This is not a small problem. Almost one-third of food workers don't have enough money to buy enough safe and nutritious food to meet their needs. The people who make and serve your food literally may be going hungry."


You implied that we the public should tip more because these poor servers don't make a living wage....

I gave an example of another person in another job that doesn't make a living wage either, but you seem to think that they're not worthy of being paid a "living wage"

And you have the unmitigated gall to call me ignorant?
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:10 PM   #224
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They're unskilled labor in most cases - if they're making enough to be concerned with the Federal Gov't taxation rates, they should be pretty happy. I have a feeling most don't - for good cause.
FYI, I'm pretty sure everyone should be concerned with their IRS tax rates even if they are just some idiot serving me food

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Old 02-09-2013, 01:22 PM   #225
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FYI, I'm pretty sure everyone should be concerned with their IRS tax rates even if they are just some idiot serving me food
I just doubt many make enough that they actually pay into the Fed Gov't. Most likely get all their withholdings back.
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