Official World Cup, Champions League, Premiere League, La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A, MLS Thread

[s0phr0syne]

I guess McDman was right to be skeptical....I'm still shocked by how poor the performance looked.

No real convincing possession, and looked like could have been scored on 2 or 3 times in the opening 15 min.

[Mediator12]

This was just poor chemistry and terrible mentality. The US played like a B level college team and nonchalant when Honduras had the ball. When are we supposed to be better again? The 1998 team would have beaten the crap out of the US team tonight.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Plus it was like a gazillion degrees out there

[SonOfLe-loLang]

It'd help to have donovan back

[Atwater His Ass]

The US just isn't very good. The expectations for this team are way to high. The only reason we play in world cups is because our region is so weak; the US is not a top 32 team.

I mean, it's pretty bad when 4 of your best players are Germans that have no chance to play for Germany, and since their fathers are American servicemen, they take the opportunity to at least get consistent playing time at the international level and be a part of some world cups by joining the US instead.

When the US does get a real quality player (Rossi) who was raised in the states, he takes the chance to play for Italy instead. Can't say I blame him, it's just a reflection on how bad the US team really is and a nod to his exceptional skill level that he can actually play for a quality top international side.

Outside of Dempsey, Howard, and Bradley, the rest of the top 24 players are either not playing regular club football, or playing in 2nd/3rd tier leagues, or plodding away on sides that are fighting relegation or if lucky, mid table. These guys also generally aren't getting the experience of playing in the champions league; if they are lucky, maybe they get some europa league action every few years or so. That's just not a good place to be drawing the majority of your international players.

Look at Cameron for example, how horrible he played. At this level, you shouldn't be having to play a guy out of position at center back. You play guys out of position in midfield or forwards, and it's usually to get your absolute best 11 on the field, not because of a necessity from lack of depth and talent. Oneywu, who is supposed to be one of our better center backs, can't even get playing time at Malaga and isn't called up. Bocenegra plays for a 2nd tier Spanish side. Also he's our captain, but he can't crack the starting 11 to kick off world cup qualifying in an environment where his veteran leadership could have been utilized.

The team is just a mess and has been for awhile. They just don't have any real international talent outside a handful of players.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Atwater His Ass

The US just isn't very good. The expectations for this team are way to high. The only reason we play in world cups is because our region is so weak; the US is not a top 32 team.

I mean, it's pretty bad when 4 of your best players are Germans that have no chance to play for Germany, and since their fathers are American servicemen, they take the opportunity to at least get consistent playing time at the international level and be a part of some world cups by joining the US instead.

When the US does get a real quality player (Rossi) who was raised in the states, he takes the chance to play for Italy instead. Can't say I blame him, it's just a reflection on how bad the US team really is and a nod to his exceptional skill level that he can actually play for a quality top international side.

Outside of Dempsey, Howard, and Bradley, the rest of the top 24 players are either not playing regular club football, or playing in 2nd/3rd tier leagues, or plodding away on sides that are fighting relegation or if lucky, mid table. These guys also generally aren't getting the experience of playing in the champions league; if they are lucky, maybe they get some europa league action every few years or so. That's just not a good place to be drawing the majority of your international players.

Look at Cameron for example, how horrible he played. At this level, you shouldn't be having to play a guy out of position at center back. You play guys out of position in midfield or forwards, and it's usually to get your absolute best 11 on the field, not because of a necessity from lack of depth and talent. Oneywu, who is supposed to be one of our better center backs, can't even get playing time at Malaga and isn't called up. Bocenegra plays for a 2nd tier Spanish side. Also he's our captain, but he can't crack the starting 11 to kick off world cup qualifying in an environment where his veteran leadership could have been utilized.

The team is just a mess and has been for awhile. They just don't have any real international talent outside a handful of players.

Good post. Rossi was left off the 2010 team so that bit him in the ass. He's a traitor to the US! The game should've ended in a draw. As mentioned, poor chemistry and no heart. And yes obviously throw in the lack of talent. The team should still qualify. They have to win the next game @home v Costa Rica by multiple goals if possible.

[maven]

[Smiling Assassin27]

man, how about jamaica drawing with mexico...

[ludo21]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

man, how about jamaica drawing with mexico...

that is HUGE for US...

Got to win the Costa Rica game, and get some road draws.

[SleepingTiger]

Originally Posted by Atwater His Ass

The US just isn't very good. The expectations for this team are way to high. The only reason we play in world cups is because our region is so weak; the US is not a top 32 team.

Exactly, that is why I think the Eurocup is better. Many teams that will qualify for the world cup will not qualify for the Eurocup.

I mean, it's pretty bad when 4 of your best players are Germans that have no chance to play for Germany

To be fair, the German squad is loaded with talent. Many world cup players will not make the German squad.

When the US does get a real quality player (Rossi) who was raised in the states, he takes the chance to play for Italy instead. Can't say I blame him, it's just a reflection on how bad the US team really is and a nod to his exceptional skill level that he can actually play for a quality top international side.

he is a traitor. However, he trained mostly in Italy, so i can see why he decided on the Italy instead.

Outside of Dempsey, Howard, and Bradley, the rest of the top 24 players are either not playing regular club football, or playing in 2nd/3rd tier leagues, or plodding away on sides that are fighting relegation or if lucky, mid table. These guys also generally aren't getting the experience of playing in the champions league; if they are lucky, maybe they get some europa league action every few years or so. That's just not a good place to be drawing the majority of your international players.

I think Donovan has proved his worth at Everton. Jermain Jones is a good talent. We also have some very young players coming up.

The team is just a mess and has been for awhile. They just don't have any real international talent outside a handful of players.

I would give them a few more matches before calling it quits. You don't need a strong club players to be an effective world cup team. Look at the English and Dutch team. Incredible club players, but always under achieve. Yes, the Dutch team made the finals last world cup, but they might as well stay home during euro cup.

Also teams like Korea, Japan and several African teams always do well in the world cup without star club players.

[Atwater His Ass]

My point about the German born players and Rossi, is that the US cannot develop it's own players. The youth system is a joke and MLS doesn't do near enough to develop local talent in their each teams region. Running like the NFL is a good business move to keep the league afloat, but relying on college's to groom the youth will never work. It's already an uphill battle even getting young players interested past age 14 or so, having to compete with basketball, football, and baseball. So soccer is already at best, getting the third tier athletes. Having academies and offering those young prospects an education in addition to soccer training would give some of those families pause and consider signing them up for that in lieu of paying astronomical monies to charter their kids around on touring youth club teams in any sport.

I'm not "giving up" on this team over one game. The entire 18 months or so of Klinnsman's hiring has not worked out. One off's against Mexico and Italy doesn't constitute progress. I was a huge proponent of hiring him, especially seeing how he turned that German team around into a juggernaught, but it seems that he's the wrong coach with the wrong players to make it work.

I mean, it was never about just qualifying for the world cup. It was about making progress and being competitive once we get there. We've had decades of qualifying and then getting embarrassed, sans the 2002 cup where we got robbed against Germany.

As far as "less talented" teams from Africa and Asia...I would still argue that those players are among the absolute best athletes those countries have to offer. They are more talented then most of the US players and many of those teams had big names playing in top leagues on top clubs.

Lastly in regards to Donovan, he's obviously one of the best American players ever. But I still consider him somewhat of a disappointment for never breaking out of his comfort zone after in didn't work out in Germany when he was younger. One half season successful loan spell at Everton doesn't prove much, other than, perhaps he should have given it an honest shot years before in the EPL, which is obvioulsy a much better league for Americans to play in than the Bundesliga. I also thought the US never used him correctly, mostly isolating him out on a wing. He was the best player, you want him touching the ball. I've always argued they should have played him in the middle as a playmaker combining with Dempsey, getting them both as many touches as possible. When they did things like play Dempsey as a sole striker with Donovan on the left wing, it was hard to even watch that crap.

[McDman]

Sigh.

[SleepingTiger]

Originally Posted by Atwater His Ass

My point about the German born players and Rossi, is that the US cannot develop it's own players. The youth system is a joke and MLS doesn't do near enough to develop local talent in their each teams region.

I agree with you, but the European countries have been developing players for centuries now. Soccer in America is very much in its infancy. I want to point out that its the club teams that develop all these talents, not the national team itself. Look at Ajax, they hand select these kids at 10yrs old and develop them into the Sneiders and Van der Vaart. Then sell them off at a huge transfer fee to finance their youth program. MLS club teams don't have the expertise, the finance or the know how to run a program like that of Ajax.

I mean, it was never about just qualifying for the world cup. It was about making progress and being competitive once we get there. We've had decades of qualifying and then getting embarrassed, sans the 2002 cup where we got robbed against Germany.

I think you're asking for alot. We are not on a even playing field. Until America takes soccer seriously (top 3 sport), making it past the group stage is the best you can ask for.

As far as "less talented" teams from Africa and Asia...I would still argue that those players are among the absolute best athletes those countries have to offer. They are more talented then most of the US players and many of those teams had big names playing in top leagues on top clubs.

Again, they have one or two players on good club teams, but beyond that they are just like many of the American players playing for 2nd tier clubs.

Lastly in regards to Donovan, he's obviously one of the best American players ever. But I still consider him somewhat of a disappointment for never breaking out of his comfort zone after in didn't work out in Germany when he was younger. One half season successful loan spell at Everton doesn't prove much, other than, perhaps he should have given it an honest shot years before in the EPL, which is obvioulsy a much better league for Americans to play in than the Bundesliga.

No, I think he proved himself even if its for half the season in Everton. He made an impact on that team, the team knows it and the fans as well.

I also thought the US never used him correctly, mostly isolating him out on a wing. He was the best player, you want him touching the ball. I've always argued they should have played him in the middle as a playmaker combining with Dempsey, getting them both as many touches as possible. When they did things like play Dempsey as a sole striker with Donovan on the left wing, it was hard to even watch that crap.

I think they wanted Donovan in space so he can make runs and create. He is no Xavi or Iniesta where he can be a play maker in the middle.
Watching Dempsey as the sole striker is painful. But what will you do when you got guys like Demerit, Specter and Bornstein playing defense.

[Atwater His Ass]

We are in violent agreement over the lack of the US developing talent. Look at what England did just a couple of years ago, re-instituting the home grown rule in the EPL to help groom English players for the national side in a league that the FA felt was losing some of its focus. One of the pillars for MLS is to develop players for the national side, they just aren't doing a good job of it currently and it's partially the fault of how the league is ran, with a college draft like the NFL does. That encourages teams not to develop local talent and to just rely on colleges to do it. And the next 2 generations of young American talent doesn't look to promising either. It's going to be a long haul for the USMNT for awhile, espcially when you look over the border and see how much young talent Mexico has developed recently.

I will disagree that they don't know how to develop academies. The models from other countries are there to use, as you pointed out. The problem is the start up costs and that it will take a long time to see the returns, i.e., actually developing players takes years and commitment. But I feel this is a real must do for MLS. And they need to do it in a way that makes it attractive for families that maybe would normally push their kids to a different sport, but because of what the academy can offer their kids, they choose soccer instead. Soccer needs a competitve advantage to land these young athletes since the glamour appeal with other sports isn't a battle soccer will ever win in this country. It's obviously not like how a club like Ajax has every kid in the country dreaming to be a part of their youth system. American soccer has to develop its own advantages and play them to maximum effect to secure the kids.

American soccer under Klinsmann was supposed to be attractive, effective football. That was the deal, and why it took 5 years to get him. Understandbly, with the players he has, it's not really possible to play in a similiar style to a Spain or the shear talent of a Brazil. But he hasn't really changed the culture at all. In fact, at least under Bradley, we knew who we were and what we did. We sat back, ground out wins, counter attacked, stifled and out worked opponents. Now who knows? The regression is clear, and that is what is so disappointing.

Just consider this. In the first game of the hexagonal round, on the road, against a better team in CONCACAF, Klinsmann trots out a backline that has NEVER played in a match together before. Not once. Never. Given the circumstances, how is that acceptable?

[elsid13]

Interest ESPN piece on USA youth development problems

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/...d/1009?cc=5901

[maven]

Helping the team to a 2-0 win over Marseille.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/sp...ille.html?_r=0

David Beckham celebrated his Paris St.-Germain debut by helping to create the second goal as first-place P.S.G. beat Marseille, 2-0, in Paris.

[FantomForce]

Tomorrow 1 pm going to watch with my class Real Madrid vs Barcelona. Going to be fun if you want to come. Plus we will be filling out worksheets in Spanish about the condicional and verbos reflexivos. How much fun will this BE??!!!!

[huh??]

Originally Posted by McDman

I think soccer is going to get bigger and bigger here. Especially with all of the CTE stuff in football.

Along with restructuring, there needs to be some sort of inner city development as well. All of the ridiculous athletes that live in those areas play basketball.

I've noticed recently that there has been a much bigger push by ESPN, Sirius Radio and other outlets for more soccer exposure. It's likely to take a while to gain decent broad-spectrum acceptance, but I hope by then, there will be a more adequate development system in place. Imagine if all the inner-city kids that play a pick-up game of hoops after school did the same with a soccer ball.

*edit* I just basically quoted your statements, and reiterated them. I didn't get much sleep.

[maven]

Originally Posted by FantomForce

Tomorrow 1 pm going to watch with my class Real Madrid vs Barcelona. Going to be fun if you want to come. Plus we will be filling out worksheets in Spanish about the condicional and verbos reflexivos. How much fun will this BE??!!!!

Loss 1-3 today versus Real and down 0-2 in the Champions League. They do have La Liga pretty much won, but interesting none the less in regards to Barca.

[maven]

Beckham to start vs Marseille in the French cup!



http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionslea...=23/index.html

[Atwater His Ass]

Watched Everton get absolutely rocked at home by Wigan in the FA Cup. lol.

[McDman]

Originally Posted by Atwater His Ass

Watched Everton get absolutely rocked at home by Wigan in the FA Cup. lol.

Tim Howard apparently has two broken bones in his back.

Shiiiiiiiiiiit!

[maven]

Originally Posted by McDman

Tim Howard apparently has two broken bones in his back.

Shiiiiiiiiiiit!

wow really? He's going to miss at least a couple of qualifiers. His backup is the guy from Aston Villa right?

PSG looked awful versus Valencia the other day. They advance in the Champions League, but man it didn't look good. Anyone watch the manu Real Madrid game? Was that some BS or what with the red card.

[Atwater His Ass]

Guzan is the backup, but Friedel has been somewhat posturing for an international comeback over the last couple of days.

That red card was horrible. Completely changed the game. Although I don't question Ferguson much, I do question why he couldn't find a place for Rooney in that starting XI. I don't buy it was a tactical ommission what so ever. We'll see if he plays a role tomorrow in the cup against Chelsea.

Last comment on the united game though, I just hate negative tactics. You have the away goal advantage and are at home. Take the game to Madrid and just beat them. Really disappointing approach from United imo. I guess Chelsea won it doing that last season, and to their credit they beat Barcalona and Bayern along the way, but it sure makes for a dull game. Also, screw Italy. Just because.

Looking forward to the continued Bale show and watching Tottenham win Europa league.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Atwater His Ass

Guzan is the backup, but Friedel has been somewhat posturing for an international comeback over the last couple of days.

That red card was horrible. Completely changed the game. Although I don't question Ferguson much, I do question why he couldn't find a place for Rooney in that starting XI. I don't buy it was a tactical ommission what so ever. We'll see if he plays a role tomorrow in the cup against Chelsea.

Last comment on the united game though, I just hate negative tactics. You have the away goal advantage and are at home. Take the game to Madrid and just beat them. Really disappointing approach from United imo. I guess Chelsea won it doing that last season, and to their credit they beat Barcalona and Bayern along the way, but it sure makes for a dull game. Also, screw Italy. Just because.

Looking forward to the continued Bale show and watching Tottenham win Europa league.

Don't understand the Rooney snub. Why sit him? Coming in at the 70? some minute mark down 1-2. odd. And your right about the tactics. I don't like that style of play.

Drogba was superhuman for Chelsea last year during the champions league.

I have read that they are talking about the winner of the Europa league could get an auto qualifier for the champions league. I think that's a great idea.