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Old 02-05-2013, 10:39 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
Didn't they win their appeal?
No

The Cowboys are still $5m down this year and the Skins $18m

Plus if they did overturn it they'd still have to give Denver the $1.6m considering 25 plus other teams already used theirs last year unless off course they reduced their cap this year to show equality.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:45 AM   #202
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We had a chance to still WIN IT in OT and Manning choked period. Moore deserves getting ripped on.

No pass rush killed us too

All our biggest stars took a dump at the end that's concerning for a team not loaded with talent.
the point being we dont even go to OT,if not for our defense screwing up. PM did what he neeed to do for us to win the game,but our defense choked.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:31 AM   #203
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It's now being reported the Broncos have $14.1 million. Still 4th best in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ents-for-2013/

Good explanation/clarification from IAOFM:

Quote:
To be crystal clear, this is a 2013 figure, meaning anyone schedule for unrestricted or restricted free agency is not included on the Denver payroll. Re-signing any or all of Brandon Stokley, Tony Carter, Britton Colquitt, Mitch Unrein, Justin Bannan, Kevin Vickerson, David Bruton, Jason Hunter, Dan Koppen, and Jason Hunter will eat away at that $14.1M figure.

Re-signing Ryan Clady or applying the franchise tender to him (very likely to occur) would swallow the majority of it.
Read more about it here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-cap-room-lard

Last edited by TonyR; 02-07-2013 at 06:44 AM..
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:50 AM   #204
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It's now being reported the Broncos have $14.1 million. Still 4th best in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ents-for-2013/

Good explanation/clarification from IAOFM:

Read more about it here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-cap-room-lard
Yep. Clady looks at that and says, "Come to papa."
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:28 AM   #205
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It's now being reported the Broncos have $14.1 million. Still 4th best in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ents-for-2013/

Good explanation/clarification from IAOFM:

Read more about it here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-cap-room-lard
That is, of course, before DJ is shown the door and Elway reenacts SNL's "Really?" skit with Champ
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:43 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
It's now being reported the Broncos have $14.1 million. Still 4th best in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ents-for-2013/

Good explanation/clarification from IAOFM:

Read more about it here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-cap-room-lard
Sucks that we have to sign Jason Hunter twice
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:54 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
It's now being reported the Broncos have $14.1 million. Still 4th best in the league.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ents-for-2013/

Good explanation/clarification from IAOFM:

Read more about it here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-cap-room-lard
You do realize that the 14.1 million is NOT in fact our available cap number, but only the projected adjustment to the 121 million salary cap we can carry over from unused bonuses and unused 2012 salary cap space. That number would go on top of whatever cap space we may be projected to have in 2013.......
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:01 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
You do realize that the 14.1 million is NOT in fact our available cap number, but only the projected adjustment to the 121 million salary cap we can carry over from unused bonuses and unused 2012 salary cap space. That number would go on top of whatever cap space we may be projected to have in 2013.......
huh?
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:02 AM   #209
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You do realize that the 14.1 million is NOT in fact our available cap number, but only the projected adjustment to the 121 million salary cap we can carry over from unused bonuses and unused 2012 salary cap space. That number would go on top of whatever cap space we may be projected to have in 2013.......
This is the way I read it in PFT. I think Fat Man confuses the issue.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:24 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
You do realize that...
Yes, I did see that after posting. It's all rather confusing...
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:31 AM   #211
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This is the way I read it in PFT. I think Fat Man confuses the issue.
Yes, I believe you are right.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:31 AM   #212
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Yes, I did see that after posting. It's all rather confusing...
Sorry, didn't mean to snap at you, I see the confusion arises from how IAOFM interpreted the number.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:36 AM   #213
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huh?
The numbers posted by PFT are not projected cap space numbers for the 2013 season. Each team is allowed to carry over unused cap space from the previous season to the next season, so if you were 10 million under the cap in 2012 you can carry that cap space over and your cap number becomes the league wide cap number plus the 10 million you carry over.

This structure was put in place to avoid the creative use of ridiculous likely to be met bonuses. In the old CBA a team could designate any bonus as likely to be met, any bonus designated likely to be met would count against the salary cap in the year it would be earned. However, if the conditions for a likely to be met bonus were not met, then the team would get a salary cap bonus in the following season in the same amount as the salary cap space they lost to that bonus in the previous season when it counted against the cap but was not actually paid.

Minnesota used this structure with Pat Williams, giving him a bonus for completing more than 100 passes with a value of nearly 20 million dollars in a season when they were far below the salary cap, since Pat Williams as a DT never passed the ball a single time he couldn't actually earn the bonus, but it still allowed Minnesota to carry over 20 million from one year to the next.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:38 AM   #214
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I think Fat Man confuses the issue.

People it's a blog.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:46 AM   #215
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Sorry, didn't mean to snap at you, I see the confusion arises from how IAOFM interpreted the number.
No worries. I was lazy and didn't make an effort to try to clarify after posting, so my own fault. And I typically would trust the guys at IAOFM over PFT, particularly on Bronco specific issues.

This was recently posted in the comments section at the IAOFM link:

Quote:
Either I'm reading this wrong - or Doug is wrong on this assumption. This $14.1 MM is not cap space - but carryover$$ from last year. Which, the way I'm reading it, is good news. If we choose to roll it over (and why wouldn't we?) we are then at about $29MM in cap space - not 14.1 or 15 MM.
Response from Doug:

Quote:
Unfortunately, the $11.5M carryover is included in that $14.1M figure.
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-cap-room-lard

^ Not sure whether or not he's right about this...
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:55 AM   #216
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The numbers posted by PFT are not projected cap space numbers for the 2013 season. Each team is allowed to carry over unused cap space from the previous season to the next season, so if you were 10 million under the cap in 2012 you can carry that cap space over and your cap number becomes the league wide cap number plus the 10 million you carry over.

This structure was put in place to avoid the creative use of ridiculous likely to be met bonuses. In the old CBA a team could designate any bonus as likely to be met, any bonus designated likely to be met would count against the salary cap in the year it would be earned. However, if the conditions for a likely to be met bonus were not met, then the team would get a salary cap bonus in the following season in the same amount as the salary cap space they lost to that bonus in the previous season when it counted against the cap but was not actually paid.

Minnesota used this structure with Pat Williams, giving him a bonus for completing more than 100 passes with a value of nearly 20 million dollars in a season when they were far below the salary cap, since Pat Williams as a DT never passed the ball a single time he couldn't actually earn the bonus, but it still allowed Minnesota to carry over 20 million from one year to the next.
gotcha, and thanks. So the $14.4 is the rollover amount, not the cap. I think the $11.5M cited is the rollover carried over from 2011 into 2012...right?
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:56 AM   #217
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^ Not sure whether or not he's right about this...
Me either. ;>)
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:57 AM   #218
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Me either. ;>)
Ah, so you're the one stirring up trouble over at IAOFM! I'm glad you did this. I was going to do the same but for some reason can't log in to post there from work.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:58 AM   #219
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if anyone cares, spotrac seems to have updated their web page to show the 2013 cap hit. Per spotrac, we are at a current salary of $120.5M. If the cap is actually $121M, the above mentioned $14.4M rollover becomes the de-facto cap space.

Until we cut DJ and Mays, that is. These two represent the 4th and 7th largest cap hits on the team, respectively.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:00 AM   #220
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also per spotrac, we have less than $1M in dead money currently. That's fantastic. I'm sure this figure goes up as we trim the fat though..
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:01 AM   #221
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Ah, so you're the one stirring up trouble over at IAOFM! I'm glad you did this. I was going to do the same but for some reason can't log in to post there from work.
I was just trying to get clarification. He (Doug) was reporting the PFT article as if it was cap space. Clearly it wasn't - it was rollover. I'm no cap expert, just trying to get good info like any other fan!
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:10 AM   #222
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No worries. I was lazy and didn't make an effort to try to clarify after posting, so my own fault. And I typically would trust the guys at IAOFM over PFT, particularly on Bronco specific issues.

This was recently posted in the comments section at the IAOFM link:



Response from Doug:



http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-cap-room-lard

^ Not sure whether or not he's right about this...

Of the 14.1 million adjustment number, 11.5 comes from eligible salary cap space from 2012. I am assuming the rest comes from bonuses that were not met but did count towards the 2012 salary cap. Doug is definitely incorrect about the 14.1 million being our available cap the way the list is presented by PFT.

I can't find a credible number on our current salary cap commitment to 2013, but I believe we would be pretty close to the limit. I have seen a number that says we have 18.5 million in cap space including the 11.5 million carry over, but not the 2.6 million extra that PFT lists, so that would put us at 21 million in cap space. I can't stand by these numbers as being credible. My best estimate is that before restructures and cuts and resignings and tags we are about 15-20 million under the cap and this number includes all carried over cap space.

I do think DJ Williams will be a cap casualty, I believe they will ask Champ to take a paycut - I am assuming they can settle on something in the 6 million dollar range for him. I believe Knowshon and Joe Mays will also be given long hard looks - we can save about 3.5 million by cutting Mays and 2.5 million by cutting Knowshon.

On the flip side Clady, Tony Carter and Colquitt may all be due significant raises.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:27 AM   #223
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This structure was put in place to avoid the creative use of ridiculous likely to be met bonuses. In the old CBA a team could designate any bonus as likely to be met, any bonus designated likely to be met would count against the salary cap in the year it would be earned. However, if the conditions for a likely to be met bonus were not met, then the team would get a salary cap bonus in the following season in the same amount as the salary cap space they lost to that bonus in the previous season when it counted against the cap but was not actually paid.
Well, that clears that up.




I keed.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:05 AM   #224
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Well, that clears that up.




I keed.
If nobody understood quite what I was trying to say I can only say:

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:37 PM   #225
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Another comment from IAOFM responding to our very own Springstein:

Quote:
Ted and I were just discussing this, actually. Yes, Florio's piece is a bit confusing. He added another one this morning which sort of explains the one linked above:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...inal-for-2013/

The figures listed by Clayton last month included the available carryover amounts, while the ones from Florio last night show in parentheses the amounts that teams actually chose to carry forward.

Only nine teams have chosen to carry 2012 space forward to 2013.
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-lard#comments
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