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Old 02-05-2013, 02:50 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Go to the pics in this link. He had a hand full of jersey well into the end zone. Since the play was run from outside the 5 yard line that is well beyond 5 yards.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/4th-an...bowl-47-video/

But, this article makes a case for either offsetting penalties or no call.
Go to the video and watch the second WR from the top he gets MUGGED!!
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:30 PM   #127
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This is just making me bitter about the god-awful call against Carter in our game.

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“Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.

(b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

(c) Grabbing a receiver’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass.

(d) Extending an arm across the body of a receiver thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, regardless of whether the defender is playing the ball.

(e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball.

(f) Hooking a receiver in an attempt to get to the ball in such a manner that it causes the receiver’s body to turn prior to the ball arriving.”
Section E is the really relevant one here. Carter had inside position and clearly was playing the ball. He had every right to run towards the sideline and he did. There isn't anything you can construe out of this rule to turn that into pass interference.

Stupid ******A**asdasdfkjhadsflkjasd*ing refs.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:33 PM   #128
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Go to the video and watch the second WR from the top he gets MUGGED!!
Ya.. the analysis on that page is awful. Crabtree didn't initiate contact, Smith did. It doesn't define initiating contact as being outside of 5 yards. The defender initiated contact on the jam (that's fine). He stayed engaged and Crabtree attempted to fight him off.. which he's allowed to do at that point.

Smith committed both defensive holding AND interference on the play. He never even attempted to play the ball.

The only thing I can guess is that the ruled the ball uncatchable. But that's stupid. Crabtree has the hops to go get that ball.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:35 PM   #129
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Look at crabtrees hands. His left hand throws the defenders head. He's on the face mask pushing off his head the entire time. Other hand is contacting defender also. When you watch it in slow motion you can see the defenders head get pushed and helmet turns almost halfway around. That left hand of Crabtree is pushing off the helmet the entire time. You can see jimmy smith arm go up to the refs when hes on the ground as if to say did you see his hand push my helmet backwards
I would argue that Crabtree pushed off as a reaction to getting mugged by the defender. The defender cut him off and grabbed him so the reaction would be to push off. Regardless, the defender is guilty of PI. If Crabtree is as well the result should be offsetting penalties and a replay of the down.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:50 PM   #130
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I would argue that Crabtree pushed off as a reaction to getting mugged by the defender. The defender cut him off and grabbed him so the reaction would be to push off. Regardless, the defender is guilty of PI. If Crabtree is as well the result should be offsetting penalties and a replay of the down.
So if you're actively engaged with a receiver and the QB hastily wings a duck somewhere in your vicinity, it should be an automatic PI?

Seems to me this is a recipe to end press coverage completely. You can't hit a guy and disengage faster than a QB can chuck a football straight up in the air.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:52 PM   #131
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I would argue that Crabtree pushed off as a reaction to getting mugged by the defender. The defender cut him off and grabbed him so the reaction would be to push off. Regardless, the defender is guilty of PI. If Crabtree is as well the result should be offsetting penalties and a replay of the down.
Could be why it's a no call. Offsetting penalties like that don't happen too often. Usually goes one way or the other, or a no call. I agree that there is something there, I just feel they kept it consistent to the flow of the officiating of the game. Which was Swallowing flags.

Had they scored I still believe ravens wouldve won. They've shown multiple times throughout the playoffs they only need seconds to do it. Would've been fun to watch.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:03 PM   #132
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So if you're actively engaged with a receiver and the QB hastily wings a duck somewhere in your vicinity, it should be an automatic PI?

Seems to me this is a recipe to end press coverage completely. You can't hit a guy and disengage faster than a QB can chuck a football straight up in the air.
My understanding of the relevant rules from the article I linked previously is as follows: if the DB is touching the WR beyond 5+ yards beyond the LOS before the ball is thrown it's either holding or illegal contact. After the ball is thrown, it's PI.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:19 PM   #133
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That last play in the falcons game could've gone PI too. Niner fans weren't complaining then.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:19 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
So if you're actively engaged with a receiver and the QB hastily wings a duck somewhere in your vicinity, it should be an automatic PI?

Seems to me this is a recipe to end press coverage completely. You can't hit a guy and disengage faster than a QB can chuck a football straight up in the air.
No, but its a judgment call. You can easily make the argument that Smith's contact prevented Crabtree from getting in place to catch that ball, regardless of its a duck or not.

Put it this way, would anyone have REALLY cried foul on that had they thrown a flag outside of Ravens fans?
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:16 PM   #135
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Whitlock on the new "no-call" saying the NFL got what it wanted. Did he comment on the Broncos game?

"Here’s your season-ending NFL Truths column:

The NFL got exactly what it wanted from referee Jerome Boger and the crew that worked the Super Bowl.

Roger Goodell wanted an officiating crew that would get out of the way and let the players be the stars.

For the past 15 years and spurred by the popularity of HD TV, NFL refs have been horning in on the players’ spotlight. The refs like being stars. They like being recognized. Ed Hochuli’s guns have become as well-known as Deion’s high-step.

Goodell wants to end this. He doesn’t want officiating stars. That’s why the NFL worked its system to assign a mediocre, nondescript ref to the Super Bowl. According to Boger’s jealous peers, his season-long grades did not justify his Super Bowl selection. Speculation quickly asserted the NFL manipulated its grading system so that an African-American ref could lead the Super Bowl.

If that were the case, Mike Carey would’ve been the easy choice. He’s worked the Super Bowl before and he’s highly regarded.

Nope. Goodell was after something different. Goodell wanted a ref who would stay out of the way, a crew that wouldn’t take over the game. And that’s what the league got.



Boger and his crew swallowed their flags from start to finish. They entered the stadium determined not to be the story when the game was over. Guess what? They’re the story. Jim Harbaugh was irate there was no defensive holding or pass interference called on San Fran’s last offensive play.

Boger and Co. spent the entire evening trying to avoid throwing their flags. Baltimore cornerback Cary Williams shoved an official and should’ve been tossed from the game in the first half. There was no flag.

Here's the rest http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/w...arbaugh-020413
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:21 PM   #136
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Whitlock is a fat racist clown. Always has been
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:36 PM   #137
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I agree that the Ravens probably would have won anyway. Even in the Broncos game, heaven knows the Broncos had enough of their own **** ups. There are 60 minutes in each game so it's rare if ever that a bad call produced the eventual outcome.

There are bad calls or non calls in every game, but usually not multiple calls where it's the big talk after the game. It was after the Bronco game in the media. It makes for too many suppositions about what might have been rather than what was. The refs have rules to enforce and they should. With a new deal they need to be doing a much better job. And Mike Perriera needs to be honest about the questionable ones. We're not stupid and nothing gets better by covering.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:22 PM   #138
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My understanding of the relevant rules from the article I linked previously is as follows: if the DB is touching the WR beyond 5+ yards beyond the LOS before the ball is thrown it's either holding or illegal contact. After the ball is thrown, it's PI.
The 5 yards thing was irrelevant. They're not going to nitpick between 5 or 6 yards. Especially in that situation. And if the QB throws the ball to a WR literally at the same time he's being legally bumped off the line, a ref is going to give the DB some benefit of the doubt.

And that's how it should be. When in doubt, the assumption should be no flag.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:35 PM   #139
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the punt on the 2nd to the last play of the game. The reason that he was able to run so much of the clock is that the guy was being held like in a bear hug from behind. I know basically the game was over but an extra 5 secs could have been huge.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:38 AM   #140
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There were 2-3 that were being bear hugged on that play
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:11 AM   #141
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The 5 yards thing was irrelevant. They're not going to nitpick between 5 or 6 yards. Especially in that situation. And if the QB throws the ball to a WR literally at the same time he's being legally bumped off the line, a ref is going to give the DB some benefit of the doubt.

And that's how it should be. When in doubt, the assumption should be no flag.
Again, the pictures and video clearly show the DB hand a fist full of jersey 2-3 yards into the end zone. So to my eyes there is no doubt. The only possible thing I can maybe see is offsetting penalties, which I agree is pretty much never called.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:25 AM   #142
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I just feel they kept it consistent to the flow of the officiating of the game. Which was Swallowing flags.
Not when it came to pass interference penalties on receivers. It was the only penalty they seemed willing to call.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:33 AM   #143
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Again, the pictures and video clearly show the DB hand a fist full of jersey 2-3 yards into the end zone. So to my eyes there is no doubt. The only possible thing I can maybe see is offsetting penalties, which I agree is pretty much never called.
Some guys' 2-3 yards are longer than others' I guess.

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Old 02-06-2013, 08:37 AM   #144
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I only remember one call go the 9ers way the running into the kicker.
Roughing the kicker would have been automatic 1st down..
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:39 AM   #145
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the punt on the 2nd to the last play of the game. The reason that he was able to run so much of the clock is that the guy was being held like in a bear hug from behind. I know basically the game was over but an extra 5 secs could have been huge.
That was a terrible no call. Probably the worst of the game. But nearly inconsequential as far as my understanding of the rules go. The official can't whistle the play dead because of holding. And I don't believe it's possible under the rules to claim any time back afterwards due to a penalty mid-play.

So holding should have been called. But I think the best thing that could've come out of that would've been a 10 yard shorter field on the safety kick. Which might've marginally helped. Then again if your only option to win the game is taking a kick return to the house, 10 yards is pretty inconsequential.

Definitely seems like a rule change is needed here somehow though. Holding was definitely Harbaugh's game plan on that play, so you know something with the rules isn't right in this situation.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:18 AM   #146
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Some guys' 2-3 yards are longer than others' I guess.
Go to the first picture of the play in the link below, under the following paragraph:

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And that brings us to this screenshot of the play, in which Jimmy Smith is clearly grabbing Michael Crabtree’s jersey and obstructing his path beyond five yards. Remember, the ball was snapped from the five yard line, and the contact is two yards into the end zone – seven yards from the line of scrimmage:
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/4th-an...bowl-47-video/
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:26 AM   #147
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It was pass interference without a doubt. Anyone who says otherwise needs to buy the new Monopoly game. Yes, the iron piece has been removed and replaced with a cat.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:41 AM   #148
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Go to the first picture of the play in the link below, under the following paragraph:
Yeah, if you gauge how far in he is by the length of his feet (assuming a foot or so per foot), his feet look to be about a yard in. He's leaning forward, but he's definitely less than 2 yards outside the 5 yard zone. This happens every game.

Frankly I don't want officials worrying about whether a guy is 6 or 7 yards off the line by the time a DB cuts him loose. The contact started within 5, and there's some necessary play in there. Refs don't have the processing time for the kind of thinking you expect... while you slowly sip your courvoisier, pouring over still camera images.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:53 PM   #149
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...while you slowly sip your courvoisier, pouring over still camera images.
Says the guy who posted a gif trying to make his case (see post #143)! I'm sorry that the pic I'm pointing you to is more definitive than your gif.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:32 PM   #150
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Says the guy who posted a gif trying to make his case (see post #143)! I'm sorry that the pic I'm pointing you to is more definitive than your gif.
I'm sorry you think 1-2 yards is 2-3. But we all know a guy or two who's been known to exaggerate on length every now and again.
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