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Old 02-03-2013, 12:52 PM   #176
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I am curious, who on this team do you want to keep? It seems like every one of your posts is b****ing about a player not being worth being paid to be kept around.
If you have not noticed I'm not a cheerleader, nor am I rah rahing every UFA that is cut or will be.

I simply point out the obvious for those that want any and every warm body that might be a available.

Some needs to be realistic.

That said I'm a fan of the following Decker, DT, miller, unrien, Bannan, Vickerson, Beadles, Franklin, Walton, Champ, Harris, Woodyard, Kuper(although I think he will never be the same guy he was few years ago) and Manning to name a few.

I do not believe in keeping folks that are over paid for their job or want more than they are worth(being deter mental to the team because they make to much) of which Champ, Doom and Manning come close to falling into that area.

I'm a fan of the team not individuals. If and when Any player that puts his well being in front of the team then he can leave and was happy to see shefter, cutlet and BM leave a few years ago.

They were me first guys. Frankly I think John has unloaded all the rest. All the while drafting team captains, and smart players. Perhaps not all the best at their positions but those guys also try harder.

I'm rooting for Garland to make the team this year.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:19 PM   #177
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I do not believe in keeping folks that are over paid for their job or want more than they are worth(being deter mental to the team because they make to much) of which Champ, Doom and Manning come close to falling into that area.
Manning instantly makes any team a contender. He is the most valuable player in the league. He earns every dollar he makes. People forget how close this team was to reaching the Super Bowl
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:17 PM   #178
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Manning instantly makes any team a contender. He is the most valuable player in the league. He earns every dollar he makes. People forget how close this team was to reaching the Super Bowl
I agree that Manning makes us contender in reg season. Manning in playoffs is hardly anything to cheer about 8 first game exits (9-11 overall). Moore play hurt but, Mannings brain fart in OT sent us home.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:34 PM   #179
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Manning instantly makes any team a contender. He is the most valuable player in the league. He earns every dollar he makes. People forget how close this team was to reaching the Super Bowl
Seems like he took us to the second round of the playoffs the same as last year.

And if yoi would have put Manning on the JAx, OAK or for that matter CAR team they would have been contenders?

How about KC with their crappy coaching.

I fear you have been drinking the cool aide again.

Do not get me wrong but we had access to Kapernick in the draft and passed on him. Wonder what he could have done for one hell of a lot less money than Manning is getting.

Just think how many other impact players we could have had for that 20 mil per year.

Just a little food for thought.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:55 PM   #180
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Seems like he took us to the second round of the playoffs the same as last year.
seems to me like our second round game with manning was closer than the year before with tebow.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:44 PM   #181
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I agree that Manning makes us contender in reg season. Manning in playoffs is hardly anything to cheer about 8 first game exits (9-11 overall). Moore play hurt but, Mannings brain fart in OT sent us home.
Horrible officiating and our odiot safety actually sent us home.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:56 PM   #182
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I agree that Manning makes us contender in reg season. Manning in playoffs is hardly anything to cheer about 8 first game exits (9-11 overall). Moore play hurt but, Mannings brain fart in OT sent us home.

Manning led the drive that put us up by 7 late in the 4th quarter. If Moore even considers playing that defense correctly, we advance and Baltimore goes home.

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Old 02-04-2013, 12:55 AM   #183
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seems to me like our second round game with manning was closer than the year before with tebow.
Wow spitting hairs. Did we win this years game? Yes or NO?

Unless we won it the end result was exactly the same.

Much to my dismay.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:59 AM   #184
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Horrible officiating and our odiot safety actually sent us home.
Our inability to pressure flacko cost us the game not to mention stopping the run when we had to very late in the game.

But piss and moan about the officials all off season and see who besides you cares.

Get pressure and own the LOS and even they have a hard time beating us.

Btw Champ did us no favors also.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:23 AM   #185
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Elway - please don't draft/get players like Rahim Moore.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:31 AM   #186
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Horrible officiating and our odiot safety actually sent us home.
My point is why doesn't Manning get any blame for his brain fart we had an opportunity to win it still even after idiot Moore and he choked in OT. I don't see why he doesn't get ripped on alittle.

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Old 02-04-2013, 07:39 AM   #187
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Manning led the drive that put us up by 7 late in the 4th quarter. If Moore even considers playing that defense correctly, we advance and Baltimore goes home.

We had a chance to still WIN IT in OT and Manning choked period. Moore deserves getting ripped on.

No pass rush killed us too

All our biggest stars took a dump at the end that's concerning for a team not loaded with talent.

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Old 02-04-2013, 07:43 AM   #188
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Seems like he took us to the second round of the playoffs the same as last year.

And if yoi would have put Manning on the JAx, OAK or for that matter CAR team they would have been contenders?

How about KC with their crappy coaching.
...
absolutely.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:46 AM   #189
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Let me make Lonestar's case here - I'm looking at some numbers and am coming around a bit.

Here are the key FA's I'd like re-signed - i believe these guys are either better than the other FA's available (at cost) and/or they played a critical role in 2012 and will be needed for a similar role in 2013.

first column is 2012 salary (per spotrac), second column is my projected 2013 salary.

Code:
	2012 salary	2013 projection	justification
clady	 $3,500,000.00 	 $12,000,000 	Joe Thomas money.
bannon	 $1,000,000.00 	 $1,000,000.00 	just above min wage for 10+ year vet.
brunton	 $615,000.00 	 $715,000.00 	special teams ace
carter	 $615,000.00 	 $1,000,000.00 	does anyone doubt Carter will be a millionare next season?
colquit	 $540,000.00 	 $1,000,000.00 	top 10 punters make >$1.7M
hunter	 $700,000.00 	 $840,000.00 	nfl min wage
koppen	 $825,000.00 	 $940,000.00 	nfl min wage
stokley	 $925,000.00 	 $940,000.00 	nfl min wage
vickers	 $1,200,000.00 	 $1,200,000.00 	same salary as 2012
			
total		 $19,635,000.00
That puts us over right there. of course, we will probably cut DJ, Mays, and possibly Hanie and Prater for more wiggle room, but this leaves precious little room for bringing in other FA's and signing draft picks.

further, I don't think we want to be right up against the cap anyways. We have a number of players who will become FA's in 2014 and will need new deals then - Demaryius, Decker, Beadles, Harris, Walton, Woodyard, and Ayers - that's 7 young guys who have started a number of games for us over the past couple of seasons, and will all be due a pretty good pay-bump. These are not NFL minimum guys.

We are going to be hurting in 2014 if we don't start addressing this right now.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:57 PM   #190
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Let me make Lonestar's case here - I'm looking at some numbers and am coming around a bit.

Here are the key FA's I'd like re-signed - i believe these guys are either better than the other FA's available (at cost) and/or they played a critical role in 2012 and will be needed for a similar role in 2013.

first column is 2012 salary (per spotrac), second column is my projected 2013 salary.

Code:
	2012 salary	2013 projection	justification
clady	 $3,500,000.00 	 $12,000,000 	Joe Thomas money.
bannon	 $1,000,000.00 	 $1,000,000.00 	just above min wage for 10+ year vet.
brunton	 $615,000.00 	 $715,000.00 	special teams ace
carter	 $615,000.00 	 $1,000,000.00 	does anyone doubt Carter will be a millionare next season?
colquit	 $540,000.00 	 $1,000,000.00 	top 10 punters make >$1.7M
hunter	 $700,000.00 	 $840,000.00 	nfl min wage
koppen	 $825,000.00 	 $940,000.00 	nfl min wage
stokley	 $925,000.00 	 $940,000.00 	nfl min wage
vickers	 $1,200,000.00 	 $1,200,000.00 	same salary as 2012
			
total		 $19,635,000.00
That puts us over right there. of course, we will probably cut DJ, Mays, and possibly Hanie and Prater for more wiggle room, but this leaves precious little room for bringing in other FA's and signing draft picks.

further, I don't think we want to be right up against the cap anyways. We have a number of players who will become FA's in 2014 and will need new deals then - Demaryius, Decker, Beadles, Harris, Walton, Woodyard, and Ayers - that's 7 young guys who have started a number of games for us over the past couple of seasons, and will all be due a pretty good pay-bump. These are not NFL minimum guys.

We are going to be hurting in 2014 if we don't start addressing this right now.
Clady will get $12 mil a year but his cap number will be much lower due to the large signing bonus. Same with eveyrone else on that list.
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:23 PM   #191
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Clady will get $12 mil a year but his cap number will be much lower due to the large signing bonus. Same with eveyrone else on that list.
well sure - if you go guaranteed heavy and then light on the salary, you can stretch things out some and get some relief, but then when players under perform (or don't perform i.e. injury), that's how you end up with dead money on the books.

I don't think this FO likes playing that way, it really limits what you can do. Obviously, there will be some singing bonus and the numbers won't be quite as bleak as I had above, but not by far. What could we save with creative accounting off of the cap...a third? maybe $6M?

That would be $13M towards simply signing our own guys. Tack on $3M for rookies, adjust for the earned escalators, we are a couple mil over the $13M or $14M IAOFM thinks we have.

Simply signing our own guys leaves little room for future FA acquisitions, much less room to extend the core group of guys we have been building around.
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:30 PM   #192
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well sure - if you go guaranteed heavy and then light on the salary, you can stretch things out some and get some relief, but then when players under perform (or don't perform i.e. injury), that's how you end up with dead money on the books.

I don't think this FO likes playing that way, it really limits what you can do. Obviously, there will be some singing bonus and the numbers won't be quite as bleak as I had above, but not by far. What could we save with creative accounting off of the cap...a third? maybe $6M?

That would be $13M towards simply signing our own guys. Tack on $3M for rookies, adjust for the earned escalators, we are a couple mil over the $13M or $14M IAOFM thinks we have.

Simply signing our own guys leaves little room for future FA acquisitions, much less room to extend the core group of guys we have been building around.
That the way it is Clady will be looking at $30 million signing bonus that will be spread out through the life of the contract making his cap figure lower.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:09 PM   #193
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. . . and given the fact that people like Manning and Champ who are taking up tens of millions each year will be out of the picture in 2-3 years . . .

We will be able to re-sign our young studs.

Stop crying you babies.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:39 PM   #194
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That the way it is Clady will be looking at $30 million signing bonus that will be spread out through the life of the contract making his cap figure lower.
We wont pay that kind of cash to him in 2013.

He wont get much more than $10m-$15m up front, considering they'll already be paying over $40m cash to Peyton, Bailey and Dumervil alone.

$13.7m is the largest signing bonus Denver has paid in recent years which went to the No2 pick in the draft as per the slotted draft pick money that season. Bailey is the only other player who's received a signing bonus of $5m or more in the last few years.

We basically just pay big base salaries now with small signing bonuses.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:58 PM   #195
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That the way it is Clady will be looking at $30 million signing bonus that will be spread out through the life of the contract making his cap figure lower.
So prorating that 30 mil over the 4 year contract is 7.5 million a year.
Or if it is a 5 year contact 6 million a year.

What are you saving?

Nada.

Now tagging him until he proves his shoulder and knee (from years ago) are fixed and no apparent side effects. That costs 9.6 this coming year.

BTW he turned down 10 million a year last summer what makes ANYONE beleive he will take less after this past years performance.

Last but not least. When you give him a 30 million dollar signing bonuse that is a check that is written the day the contract is signed.

Since it has been rumored Pat is broke that is why we are not doing that anymore. Whether that is true or not the facts speak for themselves.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:03 AM   #196
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We wont pay that kind of cash to him in 2013.

He wont get much more than $10m-$15m up front, considering they'll already be paying over $40m cash to Peyton, Bailey and Dumervil alone.

$13.7m is the largest signing bonus Denver has paid in recent years which went to the No2 pick in the draft as per the slotted draft pick money that season. Bailey is the only other player who's received a signing bonus of $5m or more in the last few years.

We basically just pay big base salaries now with small signing bonuses.
Sorry I did not see this when I posted the above post.

As usual a heads up post.

Do you really think considering his latest surgery John will sign him long term or tag him to delay expending the money and make sure he is "RIGHT".
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:55 AM   #197
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Let me make Lonestar's case here - I'm looking at some numbers and am coming around a bit.

Here are the key FA's I'd like re-signed - i believe these guys are either better than the other FA's available (at cost) and/or they played a critical role in 2012 and will be needed for a similar role in 2013.

first column is 2012 salary (per spotrac), second column is my projected 2013 salary.

Code:
	2012 salary	2013 projection	justification
clady	 $3,500,000.00 	 $12,000,000 	Joe Thomas money.
bannon	 $1,000,000.00 	 $1,000,000.00 	just above min wage for 10+ year vet.
brunton	 $615,000.00 	 $715,000.00 	special teams ace
carter	 $615,000.00 	 $1,000,000.00 	does anyone doubt Carter will be a millionare next season?
colquit	 $540,000.00 	 $1,000,000.00 	top 10 punters make >$1.7M
hunter	 $700,000.00 	 $840,000.00 	nfl min wage
koppen	 $825,000.00 	 $940,000.00 	nfl min wage
stokley	 $925,000.00 	 $940,000.00 	nfl min wage
vickers	 $1,200,000.00 	 $1,200,000.00 	same salary as 2012
			
total		 $19,635,000.00
That puts us over right there. of course, we will probably cut DJ, Mays, and possibly Hanie and Prater for more wiggle room, but this leaves precious little room for bringing in other FA's and signing draft picks.

further, I don't think we want to be right up against the cap anyways. We have a number of players who will become FA's in 2014 and will need new deals then - Demaryius, Decker, Beadles, Harris, Walton, Woodyard, and Ayers - that's 7 young guys who have started a number of games for us over the past couple of seasons, and will all be due a pretty good pay-bump. These are not NFL minimum guys.

We are going to be hurting in 2014 if we don't start addressing this right now.

Good attempt. But I have never said I wanted Clady at that kind of money.

If anything I beleive he will be tagged for this coming year because of the shoulder surgery. Had he not had it I thought we would have been outbid for his services, by eithe a contender just looking for that last piece or a bottom feeder with loads of cash.

The rest of your players and guesstimates are pretty real close to what might happen.

I also think that we will have some 10 million PLUS that will not be spent.

You forgot to add in money's for those players that go on IR, their money counts under the cap also.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:49 AM   #198
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We get an extra 1.6 million dollars in the cap as well from the Skins and Boys.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:23 AM   #199
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We get an extra 1.6 million dollars in the cap as well from the Skins and Boys.
Didn't they win their appeal?
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #200
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Didn't they win their appeal?
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.URFPDJXnbbU
That was in May and this is from December,
http://dc.sbnation.com/washington-re...ion-david-doty

Judge David Doty dismissed the NFL Players Association's attempt to reopen a claim of collusion against the NFL. The claim arose from salary cap penalties placed on the Washington Redskins and Dallas Cowboys for overspending in 2010.

http://www.csnwashington.com/footbal...ng-cap-penalty

NFL free agency starts on March 12 and by that time every NFL team must be under the salary cap, which is expected to be about $120 million plus credits for cap money that was not spent during 2012.

Well, that will be the cap number for 30 of the league’s 32 teams anyway. The Cowboys will have to trim $5 million off of their spending compared to other NFL teams while the Redskins will have $18 million less to spend. Both teams were hit with salary cap penalties on the eve of free agency a year ago for supposed spending violations when, per the CBA, there were no rules. The Cowboys were hit with a $10 million cap penalty while Washington was slapped with $36 million. The teams “paid” half of their respective penalties last year and the balance is due in 2013,

It has long been thought that the door to the Redskins and Cowboys being able to appeal that penalty has been closed. However, Mike Shanahan said yesterday that was not the case.
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