Elvis Dumervil - What do the Broncos do with him?

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Extremely far fetched. Find a player taken at #28 or later that has ever had 10 sacks their rookie season.

Wait a second.. If hypothetically we traded Doom, and signed Melton and Knighton with that cap room, and drafted an Oakfor or Anash,

Had a DLine of Oakfor/Anash, Melton, Knighton, Wolfe, Miller off the edge. You don't think with an increase in overall quality, that a rookie pass rusher would stand a better chance in rotated snaps of getting close to 10 sacks?

A DLine of Doom, Vickerson, Bannan, Wolfe sounds better than Oakfor/Anash, Melton, Knighton, Wolfe? Same cap figures..

The idea of this is not top heavy contract players. 11.5 sacks with his 1000 snaps is ok, but throw in that disruptive DT duo and a rookie would look like an all-star.

But we aren't going to trade Doom, so we need to bolster the pass rush another way, either with upgraded DTs, or an upgraded SDE and a more disruptive NT to compliment Wolfe who would be playing DT.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Team concept is what the niners benefited from. When Justin smith went down production as a whole went down for that line. Aldon was playing hurt too I think. But his production dropped big time without Justin smith.


When those TV deals roll through teams have to spend up to that cap. And that cap is going to be huge.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Originally Posted by ludo21

10 + sacks and a bunch of forced FF.... Im going to say hell no, he is invaluable as a pass rusher, you dont give those kinds of guys away.

but it does deserve a discussion for offseason pruposes..

I agree. We shouldn't move him but I would like to see his deal restructured. Most of his guaranteed money is probably paid out so he would probably be ok with a restructuring tht adds a season or 2 to the deal and makes more of the remaining deal guaranteed

[BroncoMan4ever]

Another thing to remember is that we may be getting.an upgrade to the DL when we get Hunter back. His offseason was making it seem like he was going to go beast mode before injury. Bookend him and Doom with Wolfe and an upgraded DT In the middle and we have a major upgrade in talent.

[Requiem]

No more Mack Brown defensive ends.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Requiem

No more Mack Brown defensive ends.

Did they rep bomb you? Cause Oakfor is talented.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Wait a second.. If hypothetically we traded Doom, and signed Melton and Knighton with that cap room, and drafted an Oakfor or Anash,

Had a DLine of Oakfor/Anash, Melton, Knighton, Wolfe, Miller off the edge. You don't think with an increase in overall quality, that a rookie pass rusher would stand a better chance in rotated snaps of getting close to 10 sacks?

A DLine of Doom, Vickerson, Bannan, Wolfe sounds better than Oakfor/Anash, Melton, Knighton, Wolfe? Same cap figures..

The idea of this is not top heavy contract players. 11.5 sacks with his 1000 snaps is ok, but throw in that disruptive DT duo and a rookie would look like an all-star.

But we aren't going to trade Doom, so we need to bolster the pass rush another way, either with upgraded DTs, or an upgraded SDE and a more disruptive NT to compliment Wolfe who would be playing DT.

Melton would be awesome. What cap numbers are you using for him and Knighton? Also, is Knighton really any good? 2 sacks, appears to be a worse run defender than Bannan or Vickerson, got benched in the middle of the season?

However, I hate the idea of spending resources to not improve a position. Especially if it's our first rounder we're using. I'd rather keep Elvis, resign Bannan or Vickerson for cheap, stretch the budget for Melton, and not use our first rounder on replacing a great player. Instead, use it on... MLB for example.

And yes, it is a huge stretch to think a rookie picked at #28 could come in and get 10 sacks. If you could reference such a thing ever happening in the history of the league, maybe it wouldn't seem so far-fetched.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Did they rep bomb you? Cause Oakfor is talented.

He is about the only one that has panned out recently.

[KevinJames]

Yeah lets move our best pass rusher whos been pretty damn consistent ever since he was drafted!

Hell no Elvis is one of a kind the man eats, sleeps and breathes football, you can't always find someone who plays with the kind of passion Elvis plays with and you can't always find such a unique pass rushing DE.

Don't restructure either his pay is fine, hes lived up to his contract. Think about how many of Von's sacks you seen Doom right there with him, why break up the best pass rushing tandem in the NFL after leading the NFL in sacks?

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Melton would be awesome. What cap numbers are you using for him and Knighton? Also, is Knighton really any good? 2 sacks, appears to be a worse run defender than Bannan or Vickerson, got benched in the middle of the season?

However, I hate the idea of spending resources to not improve a position. Especially if it's our first rounder we're using. I'd rather keep Elvis, resign Bannan or Vickerson for cheap, stretch the budget for Melton, and not use our first rounder on replacing a great player. Instead, use it on... MLB for example.

And yes, it is a huge stretch to think a rookie picked at #28 could come in and get 10 sacks. If you could reference such a thing ever happening in the history of the league, maybe it wouldn't seem so far-fetched.

Knighton is talented, he's a disruptive two gapper. A change of scenery may do him good, especially reuniting him with Del Rio on a championship caliber team. He would provide more push than Bannan, but he's not going to run plays down like Vickerson. But I like him over Bannan and it's not close, he may come here at 2-3 million a year..

I agree with you that we should keep Doom, and bolster the interior pass rush. I don't see anyway we can afford Melton under our current circumstances, he's going to be a 4-6 million cap hit easy.. The numbers for he and Knighton were hypothets, but combined would cost less than Doom. But I don't want to kick him to the curb. A more productive interior rush will help Doom just like it would a rookie DE and Doom is proven..

I have been advocating a free agent MLB to see what Irving/Johnson/mid round draft pick can do. I like Larry Grant of the 49ers, he's great on special teams, and really flashed when Willis missed sometime last season. I believe the front office feels Irving can still be that guy, so he will get every opportunity. In the draft I would double down on DTs.. Short in the first, Williams in the second. Bring back Bannan and Vick on cheap rentals, integrate the rookies into snaps as the heir apparents.. Or you draft a SDE replacement and a disruptive NT. Either way, you have to spend two picks, because, Bannan and Vick is not going to upgrade the DLine, in theory they would regress because of age, and nowhere to go but down after last seasons career year for Vick..

[Play2win]

This is even a conversation

[Taco John]

I've been thinking about this one off and on all day trying to figure out what benefit we'd have in moving him - even at this salary level. I couldn't come up with anything. Seems to me that rocking the boat would be pretty stupid. Maybe we restructure him - but for what benefit at this point? If we have a specific player we need the money for, then I could see it. But if we're just trying to save a buck, I think it sends the wrong message to the team.

[Doggcow]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I've been thinking about this one off and on all day trying to figure out what benefit we'd have in moving him - even at this salary level. I couldn't come up with anything. Seems to me that rocking the boat would be pretty stupid. Maybe we restructure him - but for what benefit at this point? If we have a specific player we need the money for, then I could see it. But if we're just trying to save a buck, I think it sends the wrong message to the team.

This. We don't gain anything from moving an extremely effective player. Even if he's making a little bit more than the Omane thinks he deserves... We won't be able to just replace him, and we NEED him. If anything, the Ravens game showed we need MORE pass rushers.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by crush17

I would like to have some intelligent discussion about this subject - seeing as how we're in Offseason Mode and there's not much else going on.

I am curious to get everyone's thoughts:

Should the Broncos actively look to move Elvis Dumervil this offseason?

Don't get me wrong - I love Elvis. I love having him on this team. However, I do not feel that he is currently worth the amount he is getting paid. I am open to this line of thought based on two factors:

1) His production has not improved to where we hoped it would after his string of injuries and his play does not merit the salary he is due to make.

2) The Broncos need all the help they can get money wise if we are going to keep this team contending for a championship for the next 2-3 seasons.

I do believe we have a servicable replacement already waiting in Robert Ayers, and more help can be brought in via draft/free agency.

If we can move his salary AND get draft picks or a good player in return, it is a win/win for the Broncos.

Is it time for the Broncos to persue this move? Should they ask him to re-structure?

Yoi do realize that his contract calls for a 43 million guarantee. Of which he has received 28 million this past two year. Plus he is owed 1.6 of prorated bonus money. So instead of paying him 12.5 this coming year you want to cut him which would mean about 15 in guaranteed money comes due as well as his 1.6 bonus money all of which hits the cap this year.

Meaning we spend 4 million odd dollars more for not having him on the team?

Smooth move exlax.

[elsid13]

Less interesting in move Dumervil, then getting him some help to spot him during games. I though the last couple of years he has worn down toward the end of the season and would benefit from someone playing 10 to 15 snaps for him early in the season to keep him fresh.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Knighton is talented, he's a disruptive two gapper. A change of scenery may do him good, especially reuniting him with Del Rio on a championship caliber team. He would provide more push than Bannan, but he's not going to run plays down like Vickerson. But I like him over Bannan and it's not close, he may come here at 2-3 million a year..

I agree with you that we should keep Doom, and bolster the interior pass rush. I don't see anyway we can afford Melton under our current circumstances, he's going to be a 4-6 million cap hit easy.. The numbers for he and Knighton were hypothets, but combined would cost less than Doom. But I don't want to kick him to the curb. A more productive interior rush will help Doom just like it would a rookie DE and Doom is proven..

I have been advocating a free agent MLB to see what Irving/Johnson/mid round draft pick can do. I like Larry Grant of the 49ers, he's great on special teams, and really flashed when Willis missed sometime last season. I believe the front office feels Irving can still be that guy, so he will get every opportunity. In the draft I would double down on DTs.. Short in the first, Williams in the second. Bring back Bannan and Vick on cheap rentals, integrate the rookies into snaps as the heir apparents.. Or you draft a SDE replacement and a disruptive NT. Either way, you have to spend two picks, because, Bannan and Vick is not going to upgrade the DLine, in theory they would regress because of age, and nowhere to go but down after last seasons career year for Vick..

Bannan made $1 million last season. If we're going to spend more to replace him with Knighton (who looks to be about even with Vickerson, talent wise), I'd much rather forget Knighton and spend a few extra million for Melton, even if that meant he was the only change we made to the DL.

I think you might be disappointed with the attention that gets shown to DT this offseason. I don't think it will be a priority.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I've been thinking about this one...

TJ, is "Isaac" you?

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...rrent-pay-lard

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

I think you might be disappointed with the attention that gets shown to DT this offseason. I don't think it will be a priority.

Why should this year be any different?

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by TonyR

TJ, is "Isaac" you?

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...rrent-pay-lard

Sure looks like the OP to me.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

Sure looks like the OP to me.

Ah, yes, now that you mention it.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Did they rep bomb you? Cause Oakfor is talented.

I never argued he wasn't, but after years of seeing Mack Brown DL, especially defensive ends (outside of Orakpo, who is 3-4 OLB) who could not translate to the NFL -- I am very skeptical. None of them have performed. I remember being on Tim Crowder's bandwagon because he had all the athletic potential in the world, but the fact is he never put it together and IIRC, is now out of the league or was shortly after his stint in Tampa.

Okafor had a great season and a tremendous bowl game and really stepped up with Jeffcoat getting injured. He improved over his junior season. I think Okafor is a prototypical strong side DE in the NFL and I just don't see the point in spending a first round pick on a guy who is going to be playing LDE when this draft is loaded with talent on the DL. There are about four other defensive ends I like better than him at this point in time.

[Boobs McGee]

Originally Posted by TonyR

TJ, is "Isaac" you?

[urll]http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/look-for-dumervil-to-stick-around-at-current-pay-lard[/url]

From that article, take a look at that link...COME OOOOOOOOON PHILLY HOME OPENER!!!!

[Boobs McGee]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...0198--nfl.html

Here's the link

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I've been thinking about this one off and on all day trying to figure out what benefit we'd have in moving him - even at this salary level. I couldn't come up with anything. Seems to me that rocking the boat would be pretty stupid. Maybe we restructure him - but for what benefit at this point? If we have a specific player we need the money for, then I could see it. But if we're just trying to save a buck, I think it sends the wrong message to the team.

You are not going to save any money by restructuring Dumervil. He is on about 12 mill this year, 10 next year and 8 the one after that. If you turn say 8 million into bonus this year and prorate it he would be down to about 6 this year but up to 13 next and 11 the one after that, you negate all the savings you get at the end of the deal and since you are paying the same cash you are not freeing up any budgetary resources.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I never argued he wasn't, but after years of seeing Mack Brown DL, especially defensive ends (outside of Orakpo, who is 3-4 OLB) who could not translate to the NFL -- I am very skeptical. None of them have performed. I remember being on Tim Crowder's bandwagon because he had all the athletic potential in the world, but the fact is he never put it together and IIRC, is now out of the league or was shortly after his stint in Tampa.

Okafor had a great season and a tremendous bowl game and really stepped up with Jeffcoat getting injured. He improved over his junior season. I think Okafor is a prototypical strong side DE in the NFL and I just don't see the point in spending a first round pick on a guy who is going to be playing LDE when this draft is loaded with talent on the DL. There are about four other defensive ends I like better than him at this point in time.

I can't argue with that. I was being more hypothetical then literal..