Elvis Dumervil - What do the Broncos do with him?

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by bpc

Love me some Elvis but his potential is capped in the 4-3. He'll always be an undersized guy that won't be a huge impact with run defense.

If Denver could make a move to sign Paul Kruger closer to home (from Utah) to a mid-level contract ($4-5million) I would be open to trading Elvis. Sounds like Baltimore understands it will not be able to keep PK with their salary constraints.

Five times as many missed tackles says Kruger isn't really a better run defender than Elvis.

Also, he is not as good at rushing the passer.

[mwill07]

Originally Posted by 2KBack

I'm more interested in getting a DE to play opposite of him so we can keep Wolfe at DT

I think we've got capable guys on the roster right now that could fill that spot - Hunter was apparently a stud last TC before he got hurt. Then there's Ayers and Malik Jackson.

It's my opinion that the DE opposite Doom is less important anyways, with Von playing mostly on that edge. all that DE needs to do is keep Von clean, and he will do his job.

It's also my understanding that DT is a tougher position to pick up in the NFL than DE is - more gap assignments, stunts, etc to pick up. That's why they had Wolfe playing the outside more in 2012, but the long-term plan on him is to transition him inside.

If we could have a starting line-up of Doom, Wolfe, Vickerson, and Ayers (or whomever) with Von Miller playing behind them in a joker type role - we could be a seriously awesome front 7 defensive team - depending on who we can find for MLB, of course.

[g6matty]

Originally Posted by Heyneck

What did we achieve with having Champ with no pass rush under the Shanny years get us?

add one von miller to duh mix. he himself equals the jets sack numbers total
lulzor.

pick your poisoin man. champ or revis.

there is lots of guys we need to do something with this off season whether its cut or fix there money

dj kuper mays caldwell . dimerville has a few mill to give up with his high ass salary

[LetsGoBroncos]

I'm def in for getting rid of him if he won't take a big pay cut. I feel like he is pretty average most of the time with an occasional sack.

[Powderaddict]

With today's NFL, pass rushers are extremely important.

No way we get rid of Doom. He's worth every penny.

[bpc]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Five times as many missed tackles says Kruger isn't really a better run defender than Elvis.

Also, he is not as good at rushing the passer.

I'm interested to see where these stats are. Could you link it? I watched Kruger play yesterday, and against us, I thought he did a damn good job in the pass and rush department. Looks like he's coming on which is indicated by his sack totals going from 0, 1, 5, 9.5 this year.

[2KBack]

Originally Posted by mwill07

I think we've got capable guys on the roster right now that could fill that spot - Hunter was apparently a stud last TC before he got hurt. Then there's Ayers and Malik Jackson.

It's my opinion that the DE opposite Doom is less important anyways, with Von playing mostly on that edge. all that DE needs to do is keep Von clean, and he will do his job.

It's also my understanding that DT is a tougher position to pick up in the NFL than DE is - more gap assignments, stunts, etc to pick up. That's why they had Wolfe playing the outside more in 2012, but the long-term plan on him is to transition him inside.

If we could have a starting line-up of Doom, Wolfe, Vickerson, and Ayers (or whomever) with Von Miller playing behind them in a joker type role - we could be a seriously awesome front 7 defensive team - depending on who we can find for MLB, of course.

I agree that MLB should be the number 1 priority to the off season. A good all around mike can keep Von Miller down around the line of scrimmage where he belongs. I would still like another disruptive threat on the line. Maybe Wolfe takes another step, maybe Hunter final got it, Ayers improves every year...but very slowly. I would really like one more guy that needs accounting and can screw up some of the blocking.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by bpc

I'm interested to see where these stats are. Could you link it? I watched Kruger play yesterday, and against us, I thought he did a damn good job in the pass and rush department. Looks like he's coming on which is indicated by his sack totals going from 0, 1, 5, 9.5 this year.

PFF.

Here's something interesting:

Elvis rushed from the left 117 times, compared to 371 times from the right. However, 7 of his sacks came when he rushed from the left.

[bombay]

Originally Posted by oubronco

If they would ever call holding he would have the sack record

Agree. I've never seen another player be held with the regularity it happens to Elvis. Never called.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

I don't think manning would want him replaced with a rookie that will need time to progress. Manning doesn't have much time left and its win now mode.

[cmhargrove]

Let's worry about DJ first. I would rather get rid of excess baggage than cut the guys that are actually making a positive difference.

If you could work a blockbuster trade (which is highly doubtful) then go ahead, but otherwise we need him to beat teams like the Patriots. This is a passing league and his numbers are consistent year after year. He has always been a high-performing team player.

A restructured contract sounds perfect, and I don't know why he wouldn't want to help chip in to the superbowl effort.

[crush17]

As more and more people reply, and I get more research from other sites - his deal is much easier to swallow than I had previously thought and gets more team friendly in the later stages of the contract.

I am glad I posted this here today because it led me to other information and helped to change my thought process.

I now feel strongly that it is absolutely worth keeping him here.

DJ Williams on the other hand....

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

I don't think manning would want him replaced with a rookie that will need time to progress. Manning doesn't have much time left and its win now mode.

Let me play Devils Advocate here for a second.. Peyton would not say you cannot get rid of Doom. He's a player, he's not in personnel, he has to trust in these coaches to put the team in the best position to win. Now, I do think that if they traded Doom for picks and maybe got a player as well, and with that freed up cap space went and got a dynamic piece to add to the offense, that PM wouldn't have bitter feelings.

I like Doom, but.. It's not too far fetched to think that a rookie could come in, like an Oakfor/Anash in the first round, and produce 10 sacks, and actually provide more of a stronger run support presence..

That in no way means I'm implying we are or should get rid of Doom!

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Let me play Devils Advocate here for a second.. Peyton would not say you cannot get rid of Doom. He's a player, he's not in personnel, he has to trust in these coaches to put the team in the best position to win. Now, I do think that if they traded Doom for picks and maybe got a player as well, and with that freed up cap space went and got a dynamic piece to add to the offense, that PM wouldn't have bitter feelings.

I like Doom, but.. It's not too far fetched to think that a rookie could come in, like an Oakfor/Anash in the first round, and produce 10 sacks, and actually provide more of a stronger run support presence..

That in no way means I'm implying we are or should get rid of Doom!

It's hard to hit when your picking in the high 20s. If we had a top 10 then I'd be more inclined in your approach here. IMO before he became a bronco manning saw the doom and miller combo and his eyes lighted up.

I don't really see the same thing some others do with dumervil. I believe he's one of the best weapons on our defense. He disrupts so many plays. Rivers can be heard screaming his name in the middle of the night. Nightmares. I think his contract scares people but the worst of it is over. I wouldn't get rid of him at all. I would move him around a bit more. Like someone reported in here he's pretty good from the left.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

It's hard to hit when your picking in the high 20s. If we had a top 10 then I'd be more inclined in your approach here. IMO before he became a bronco manning saw the doom and miller combo and his eyes lighted up.

I don't really see the same thing some others do with dumervil. I believe he's one of the best weapons on our defense. He disrupts so many plays. Rivers can be heard screaming his name in the middle of the night. Nightmares. I think his contract scares people but the worst of it is over. I wouldn't get rid of him at all. I would move him around a bit more. Like someone reported in here he's pretty good from the left.

I personally think Oakfor could come in and have 10 sacks as a rookie and he plays very well against the run. Now, there's certainly no guarantee that he's available at 28..

As far as Doom rushing from the Left, that's ok with me on obvious passing downs, but surely not during base downs. That completely compromises the scheme if you put Doom as SDE.

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Let me play Devils Advocate here for a second.. Peyton would not say you cannot get rid of Doom. He's a player, he's not in personnel, he has to trust in these coaches to put the team in the best position to win. Now, I do think that if they traded Doom for picks and maybe got a player as well, and with that freed up cap space went and got a dynamic piece to add to the offense, that PM wouldn't have bitter feelings.

I like Doom, but.. It's not too far fetched to think that a rookie could come in, like an Oakfor/Anash in the first round, and produce 10 sacks, and actually provide more of a stronger run support presence..

That in no way means I'm implying we are or should get rid of Doom!

Which rookies have actually had 10+ sacks? In the last 5 years:

Von - 2nd overall
Aldon - 7th overall
Suh - 2nd overall
Orakpo - 13th overall

Not to mention one of them (Aldon) is pretty horrible in run defense. So yeah, at #28, it is pretty far fetched.

[2KBack]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Which rookies have actually had 10+ sacks? In the last 5 years:

Von - 2nd overall
Aldon - 7th overall
Suh - 2nd overall
Orakpo - 13th overall

Not to mention one of them (Aldon) is pretty horrible in run defense. So yeah, at #28, it is pretty far fetched.

not to mention 3 of those played linebacker

[MagicHef]

I get the sense that people think 11 sacks is normal for a passrusher. Twenty teams did not have anyone with 11 sacks this season. Only 4 teams had 2 guys with 11. Getting 29.5 sacks out of 2 guys is nuts. No other team in the league came close to that.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

I get the sense that people think 11 sacks is normal for a passrusher. Twenty teams did not have anyone with 11 sacks this season. Only 4 teams had 2 guys with 11. Getting 29.5 sacks out of 2 guys is nuts. No other team in the league came close to that.

EXACTLY!!!!!

[srphoenix]

You never get rid of premium pass rushers unless they are past their prime. If heaven forbid Von Miller went down, Dumervil would still be a top 5 capable pass rusher on this team.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by bpc

Love me some Elvis but his potential is capped in the 4-3. He'll always be an undersized guy that won't be a huge impact with run defense.

If Denver could make a move to sign Paul Kruger closer to home (from Utah) to a mid-level contract ($4-5million) I would be open to trading Elvis. Sounds like Baltimore understands it will not be able to keep PK with their salary constraints.

The 4-3 under that Denver runs is a 3-4 basically. Even in Dooms 18 sack year most of his sacks came with a hand in the dirt. I would take Kruger over him for sure and be open to trading Elvis.

[KipCorrington25]

Keep... getting ride of talent and replacing them with cast offs was the McCheat model and we see how well that worked.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

I get the sense that people think 11 sacks is normal for a passrusher. Twenty teams did not have anyone with 11 sacks this season. Only 4 teams had 2 guys with 11. Getting 29.5 sacks out of 2 guys is nuts. No other team in the league came close to that.

Wait a second Chief. Considering the number of snaps Doom played, are you saying its far fetched to think a rookie could get 10 sacks or close to it in our scheme?

Maybe you should look at my post, I am not insinuating ridding of Doom, but I respectfully disagree that a pass rusher can't come in and contribute in our scheme.

Again playing Devils Advocate here..With that extra cap room, we could upgrade other positions to increase depth and effectiveness of the scheme. DT could be one of those positions..

[MagicHef]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Wait a second Chief. Considering the number of snaps Doom played, are you saying its far fetched to think a rookie could get 10 sacks or close to it in our scheme?

Maybe you should look at my post, I am not insinuating ridding of Doom, but I respectfully disagree that a pass rusher can't come in and contribute in our scheme.

Again playing Devils Advocate here..With that extra cap room, we could upgrade other positions to increase depth and effectiveness of the scheme. DT could be one of those positions..

Extremely far fetched. Find a player taken at #28 or later that has ever had 10 sacks their rookie season.

[Bmore Manning]

That means we can generate sacks from positions outside of DE and SOLB...

Our DLine had 9 sacks outside of Doom.. That's a problem.

Personally I want to upgrade the pass rush, I'm not as enamored with it as some are. And I don't think cutting or trading Doom helps towards that goal.. But I do enjoy a team concept of pressure much like the Bengals, where the pressure comes from all over the DLine. And they don't have high priced pass rushers at the moment..