Elvis Dumervil - What do the Broncos do with him? - The Orange Mane

crush17 · 02-04-2013, 10:18 AM

I would like to have some intelligent discussion about this subject - seeing as how we're in Offseason Mode and there's not much else going on.

I am curious to get everyone's thoughts:

Should the Broncos actively look to move Elvis Dumervil this offseason?

Don't get me wrong - I love Elvis. I love having him on this team. However, I do not feel that he is currently worth the amount he is getting paid. I am open to this line of thought based on two factors:

1) His production has not improved to where we hoped it would after his string of injuries and his play does not merit the salary he is due to make.

2) The Broncos need all the help they can get money wise if we are going to keep this team contending for a championship for the next 2-3 seasons.

I do believe we have a servicable replacement already waiting in Robert Ayers, and more help can be brought in via draft/free agency.

If we can move his salary AND get draft picks or a good player in return, it is a win/win for the Broncos.

Is it time for the Broncos to persue this move? Should they ask him to re-structure?

ludo21 · 02-04-2013, 10:21 AM

10 + sacks and a bunch of forced FF.... Im going to say hell no, he is invaluable as a pass rusher, you dont give those kinds of guys away.

but it does deserve a discussion for offseason pruposes..

crush17 · 02-04-2013, 10:26 AM

Really, for me it comes down to the amount of money his salary is eating up. I just don't know how we pay him, Kuper, Clady, Manning, Bailey, and then Von, DT and Decker when their contracts are due.

SonOfLe-loLang · 02-04-2013, 10:28 AM

Move him no, restructure his contract, yes

MagicHef · 02-04-2013, 10:28 AM

2011 & 2012 were the high points of his contract, salary wise. He gets cheaper every year from now on. Also, he is one of the 10 best passrushers in the league (or at least was this season).

Keep him.

Requiem · 02-04-2013, 10:28 AM

Thanks for starting this discussion.

IIRC -- his deal ends up getting friendlier by two million a year less from here on out until it expires, but regardless I think he should be a candidate for re-structure for the two years over 10 million that still remaine. I can't imagine he gets dealt in a trade with how high his salary is. That is just my personal opinion on the matter. There is a lot to like about what he can do in the pass rushing department, but have always felt his performance against the run was average. However, he seemed to make some plays in that regard this year and did a great job forcing fumbles (6).

There are a lot of good edge rushers in this draft who I would like to have added to our dynamic. I don't think that Robert Ayers is a replacement for Dumervil, but someone we should consider retaining for depth as the future goes on. Jack Del Rio absolutely raved about Ayers when he was coaching at Mobile, so perhaps he will get an opportunity to shine in 2013.

FWIW, I think we clearly need to add another DL with some pass rushing talent to who we have right now. We had some great sack numbers this year, but we could put on some more firepower there. We didn't get much penetration against the Ravens in our Divisional Round loss.

In short. Dumervil should be a candidate for re-structure to save a couple million now and 2014. Don't think we have anyone who could realistically replace his production on top as of right now. Plus his middle name is Kool. Koolbeans.

Gutless Drunk · 02-04-2013, 10:29 AM

Elvis, Champ & Manning need to volunteer for pay cuts. 10-20 Million a year is for players who make plays in the big time games.

jutang · 02-04-2013, 10:33 AM

I think Miller and Dumerville could be more devestating with a DT that can collapse the pocket. Denver's fierce passrush can be neutralized if the quarterback can step up in the pocket. Keeping Doom is a must if Denver wants to win the Super Bowl in the next two years. With Denver's short window you need to keep all of their best players to have a realistic shot at winning.

spdirty · 02-04-2013, 10:34 AM

First and foremost we need to teach him where to line up, and if he lines up offsides it's a penalty and hurts the goal of the team, no matter what happens on that particular play.

Bmore Manning · 02-04-2013, 10:36 AM

I think it's interesting food for thought.. I have pondered this myself, there are some really good pass rushers in the draft. Someone like Oakfor may be there @28, and he is solid against the run as well as a pass rusher...

But.. this would largely depend on what we are getting back in return.. To even be considered..

Kaylore · 02-04-2013, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef

2011 & 2012 were the high points of his contract, salary wise. He gets cheaper every year from now on. Also, he is one of the 10 best passrushers in the league (or at least was this season).

Keep him.

I agree with this. His salary is going to get better as he gets older. If he tries to hold out then that's one thing, but I say let him keep his money. I am not against trading any player for the right price and I would listen to offers, but I don't think you need to go looking to move him.

g6matty · 02-04-2013, 10:48 AM

cut him and trade for revis

oubronco · 02-04-2013, 10:49 AM

If they would ever call holding he would have the sack record

BroncosfanGuy · 02-04-2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jutang

I think Miller and Dumerville could be more devestating with a DT that can collapse the pocket. Denver's fierce passrush can be neutralized if the quarterback can step up in the pocket. Keeping Doom is a must if Denver wants to win the Super Bowl in the next two years. With Denver's short window you need to keep all of their best players to have a realistic shot at winning.

I agree with this. Denver still needs a disruptive interior pass rusher to take some of the burden off the edge rushers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by g6matty

cut him and trade for revis

would probably work in Madden

TheReverend · 02-04-2013, 10:59 AM

If you want to see a big drop in pressure from our defense, sure.

Not only will it remove Elvis' pressure, but it will have a large impact on Von's #s as well.

This isn't fantasy football.

enjolras · 02-04-2013, 11:00 AM

Heyneck · 02-04-2013, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g6matty

cut him and trade for revis

What did we achieve with having Champ with no pass rush under the Shanny years get us?

eddie mac · 02-04-2013, 11:14 AM

No need to restructure his deal considering there isn't $1 of guaranteed money left. I'd give him a new contract lowering the numbers a bit but giving him more guaranteed money.

mwill07 · 02-04-2013, 11:15 AM

he's currently the #11th highest paid DE in the league, and was 6th in the league for sacks from the DE position. Depending on how you measure him, he seems to be at least a top 10-20 DE relative to the rest of the league.

link

He seems to be playing up to the level of his contract, and as some underpaid guys start making what they are worth and Elvis' contract decreases, his pay relative to comparable DE's will only go down.

Keeping Elvis, even at his high contract level, is probably a value proposition at this point.

crush17 · 02-04-2013, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwill07

he's currently the #11th highest paid DE in the league, and was 6th in the league for sacks from the DE position. Depending on how you measure him, he seems to be at least a top 10-20 DE relative to the rest of the league.

link

He seems to be playing up to the level of his contract, and as some underpaid guys start making what they are worth and Elvis' contract decreases, his pay relative to comparable DE's will only go down.

Keeping Elvis, even at his high contract level, is probably a value proposition at this point.

Good stuff. Makes me feel a lot better about the situation.
I still have concerns about how this team is supposed to be able to pay all of it's core players at this point though.

mustangtoby · 02-04-2013, 11:17 AM

I don't understand. You pay good money for good players. So when you have a good player under contract, why would you move him? Makes no sense to me...

Drunken.Broncoholic · 02-04-2013, 11:19 AM

His contract wasn't just for future seasons. It was rewarding him for the seasons he overachieved on his previous contract.

Right now only fans are even talking about this. The FO is firm on him. JDR gets another offseason to build around miller and doom. Can't break that up.

2KBack · 02-04-2013, 11:23 AM

I'm more interested in getting a DE to play opposite of him so we can keep Wolfe at DT

gyldenlove · 02-04-2013, 11:27 AM

There is no incentive to restructure his deal, it gets cheaper every year. All you achieve by restructuring this year is that you have to cut him next year to avoid the cap escalation consequences. We have him at decreasing cap numbers the next 3 seasons.

bpc · 02-04-2013, 11:30 AM

Love me some Elvis but his potential is capped in the 4-3. He'll always be an undersized guy that won't be a huge impact with run defense.

If Denver could make a move to sign Paul Kruger closer to home (from Utah) to a mid-level contract ($4-5million) I would be open to trading Elvis. Sounds like Baltimore understands it will not be able to keep PK with their salary constraints.

02-04-2013, 10:34 AM	#9
spdirty Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bailey Posts: 13,883 Adopt-a-Bronco: Koppen	First and foremost we need to teach him where to line up, and if he lines up offsides it's a penalty and hurts the goal of the team, no matter what happens on that particular play. Last edited by spdirty; 02-04-2013 at 10:56 AM..

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02-04-2013, 10:18 AM	#1
crush17 orange & blue Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 2,655 Adopt-a-Bronco: DT88	Elvis Dumervil - What do the Broncos do with him? I would like to have some intelligent discussion about this subject - seeing as how we're in Offseason Mode and there's not much else going on. I am curious to get everyone's thoughts: *Should the Broncos actively look to move Elvis Dumervil this offseason?* Don't get me wrong - I love Elvis. I love having him on this team. However, I do not feel that he is currently worth the amount he is getting paid. I am open to this line of thought based on two factors: 1) His production has not improved to where we hoped it would after his string of injuries and his play does not merit the salary he is due to make. 2) The Broncos need all the help they can get money wise if we are going to keep this team contending for a championship for the next 2-3 seasons. I do believe we have a servicable replacement already waiting in Robert Ayers, and more help can be brought in via draft/free agency. If we can move his salary AND get draft picks or a good player in return, it is a win/win for the Broncos. Is it time for the Broncos to persue this move? Should they ask him to re-structure?

02-04-2013, 10:21 AM	#2
ludo21 RIP Darrent Williams Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 17,898 Adopt-a-Bronco: Paul Ernster	10 + sacks and a bunch of forced FF.... Im going to say hell no, he is invaluable as a pass rusher, you dont give those kinds of guys away. but it does deserve a discussion for offseason pruposes..

02-04-2013, 10:26 AM	#3
crush17 orange & blue Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 2,655 Adopt-a-Bronco: DT88	Really, for me it comes down to the amount of money his salary is eating up. I just don't know how we pay him, Kuper, Clady, Manning, Bailey, and then Von, DT and Decker when their contracts are due.

02-04-2013, 10:28 AM	#4
SonOfLe-loLang Young Buck Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 13,211 Adopt-a-Bronco: Thunder (RIP)	Move him no, restructure his contract, yes

02-04-2013, 10:28 AM	#5
MagicHef Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,428 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	2011 & 2012 were the high points of his contract, salary wise. He gets cheaper every year from now on. Also, he is one of the 10 best passrushers in the league (or at least was this season). Keep him.

02-04-2013, 10:28 AM	#6
Requiem ~~~ ~ ~ ~ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Earth Division Posts: 19,515 Adopt-a-Bronco: Gilgamesh	Thanks for starting this discussion. IIRC -- his deal ends up getting friendlier by two million a year less from here on out until it expires, but regardless I think he should be a candidate for re-structure for the two years over 10 million that still remaine. I can't imagine he gets dealt in a trade with how high his salary is. That is just my personal opinion on the matter. There is a lot to like about what he can do in the pass rushing department, but have always felt his performance against the run was average. However, he seemed to make some plays in that regard this year and did a great job forcing fumbles (6). There are a lot of good edge rushers in this draft who I would like to have added to our dynamic. I don't think that Robert Ayers is a replacement for Dumervil, but someone we should consider retaining for depth as the future goes on. Jack Del Rio absolutely raved about Ayers when he was coaching at Mobile, so perhaps he will get an opportunity to shine in 2013. FWIW, I think we clearly need to add another DL with some pass rushing talent to who we have right now. We had some great sack numbers this year, but we could put on some more firepower there. We didn't get much penetration against the Ravens in our Divisional Round loss. In short. Dumervil should be a candidate for re-structure to save a couple million now and 2014. Don't think we have anyone who could realistically replace his production on top as of right now. Plus his middle name is Kool. Koolbeans.

02-04-2013, 10:29 AM	#7
Gutless Drunk Perennial Pro-bowler Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 918 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Elvis, Champ & Manning need to volunteer for pay cuts. 10-20 Million a year is for players who make plays in the big time games.

02-04-2013, 10:33 AM	#8
jutang Pro Bowler Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 647	I think Miller and Dumerville could be more devestating with a DT that can collapse the pocket. Denver's fierce passrush can be neutralized if the quarterback can step up in the pocket. Keeping Doom is a must if Denver wants to win the Super Bowl in the next two years. With Denver's short window you need to keep all of their best players to have a realistic shot at winning.

02-04-2013, 10:36 AM	#10
Bmore Manning Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,691 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I think it's interesting food for thought.. I have pondered this myself, there are some really good pass rushers in the draft. Someone like Oakfor may be there @28, and he is solid against the run as well as a pass rusher... But.. this would largely depend on what we are getting back in return.. To even be considered..

02-04-2013, 10:48 AM	#12
g6matty Pro Bowler "i had dreams of confetti..." Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 742	cut him and trade for revis

02-04-2013, 10:49 AM	#13
oubronco John Foneco !! Mile High Magic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sooner Country Posts: 20,570	If they would ever call holding he would have the sack record

02-04-2013, 10:59 AM	#15
TheReverend www.PatrickTurley.org ^ buy this... twice Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 32,966 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mike Shanahan	If you want to see a big drop in pressure from our defense, sure. Not only will it remove Elvis' pressure, but it will have a large impact on Von's #s as well. This isn't fantasy football.

02-04-2013, 11:00 AM	#16
enjolras Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,939

02-04-2013, 11:14 AM	#18
eddie mac Ireland's No1 Bronco Eddie Mac 87 gone but never forgott Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: IRELAND Posts: 15,572 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rod Smith	No need to restructure his deal considering there isn't $1 of guaranteed money left. I'd give him a new contract lowering the numbers a bit but giving him more guaranteed money.

02-04-2013, 11:15 AM	#19
mwill07 Ring of Famer Lurker Extraordinaire Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,191 Adopt-a-Bronco: VMFM	he's currently the #11th highest paid DE in the league, and was 6th in the league for sacks from the DE position. Depending on how you measure him, he seems to be at least a top 10-20 DE relative to the rest of the league. link He seems to be playing up to the level of his contract, and as some underpaid guys start making what they are worth and Elvis' contract decreases, his pay relative to comparable DE's will only go down. Keeping Elvis, even at his high contract level, is probably a value proposition at this point.

02-04-2013, 11:17 AM	#21
mustangtoby Rookie New to the Forum Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 69 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I don't understand. You pay good money for good players. So when you have a good player under contract, why would you move him? Makes no sense to me...

02-04-2013, 11:19 AM	#22
Drunken.Broncoholic Steppin on feet Pickled in Orange and Blue Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Carmel Ca Posts: 6,197 Adopt-a-Bronco: LeLo Lang	His contract wasn't just for future seasons. It was rewarding him for the seasons he overachieved on his previous contract. Right now only fans are even talking about this. The FO is firm on him. JDR gets another offseason to build around miller and doom. Can't break that up.

02-04-2013, 11:23 AM	#23
2KBack Rumblin' Bumblin' Cake is delicious Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wash DC Posts: 7,273	I'm more interested in getting a DE to play opposite of him so we can keep Wolfe at DT

02-04-2013, 11:27 AM	#24
gyldenlove Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: London, ON Posts: 10,014 Adopt-a-Bronco: Spencer Larsen	There is no incentive to restructure his deal, it gets cheaper every year. All you achieve by restructuring this year is that you have to cut him next year to avoid the cap escalation consequences. We have him at decreasing cap numbers the next 3 seasons.

02-04-2013, 11:30 AM	#25
bpc "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" 1 sword keeps another in the sheath Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 12,566 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	Love me some Elvis but his potential is capped in the 4-3. He'll always be an undersized guy that won't be a huge impact with run defense. If Denver could make a move to sign Paul Kruger closer to home (from Utah) to a mid-level contract ($4-5million) I would be open to trading Elvis. Sounds like Baltimore understands it will not be able to keep PK with their salary constraints.