Will Shields - HoF discussion

[GoBroncos DownUnder]

Will Shields, one of the NFL's best Guards to ever play is passed up for Hall of Fame induction ...
He should have been a FIRST ballot inductee, this HoF voting crap needs to be FIXED, it's a wash with pompous, self promoting journalists, and they are ****ing this all up repeatedly!

Your thoughts??

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by GoBroncos DownUnder

Will Shields, one of the NFL's best Guards to ever play is passed up for Hall of Fame induction ...
He should have been a FIRST ballot inductee, this HoF voting crap needs to be FIXED, it's a wash with pompous, self promoting journalists, and they are ****ing this all up repeatedly!

Your thoughts??

Guard=Salad

Even when they're the best, they're still a ****ing salad (or guard).

[Agamemnon]

With all the great Broncos getting snubbed year after year I'm supposed to care about Will Shields, a former Chief? Get the **** out of here...

[FearLanier]

Shields has 12 pro bowls, named to 2000's all decade team, Walter Payton man of the year award and never missed a game.

But he doesn't have a SB like Ogden or Allen so he gets a bad rap.

This logic should only apply to QB's IMO.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by FearLanier

This logic should only apply to QB's IMO.

It shouldn't apply to anyone IMO. Certainly winning Super Bowls should factor in to the overall assessment, but not to the degree it currently does. Dan Marino is arguably the greatest pure passer in the history of the league but he never had a great team around him so he never won a Super Bowl. Meanwhile Montana was surrounded by HoFers and won four. Elway wouldn't have ever won a Super Bowl without the likes of Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, and many other great players. Using Super Bowls or the lack thereof to assess someone's career, QB or otherwise, is patently retarded.

Oh and I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Terry Bradshaw (a QB probably on par with Trent Dilfer) is in the HoF because he was on one of the most dominant teams of all-time. If this isn't a perfect example of why merely being on championship teams shouldn't get you in to the Hall, I don't know what is.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

It shouldn't apply to anyone IMO. Certainly winning Super Bowls should factor in to the overall assessment, but not to the degree it currently does. Dan Marino is arguably the greatest pure passer in the history of the league but he never had a great team around him so he never won a Super Bowl. Meanwhile Montana was surrounded by HoFers and won four. Elway wouldn't have ever won a Super Bowl without the likes of Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, and many other great players. Using Super Bowls or the lack thereof to assess someone's career, QB or otherwise, is patently retarded.

I gotta agree. But I also agree noone should win merely for being on a winner and accumulating stats based on the teammates (I'm looking at you, Emmitt).

[KipCorrington25]

He played for KC so his career was basically invisible. Never played in a big games and in a tiny, crappy market. The witness protection program sends guys to play for the Chiefs because they know they won't get noticed.

[FearLanier]

Originally Posted by KipCorrington25

He played for KC so his career was basically invisible. Never played in a big games and in a tiny, crappy market. The witness protection program sends guys to play for the Chiefs because they know they won't get noticed.

The Chiefs were one of the most recognized and popular teams in the 90's. They were also pretty popular under Dick Vermeil.

But we aren't on the east coast and nobody west of the Mississippi matters to them.

[Willynowei]

Along with Willie Roaf, Will Shields anchored the greatest offensive line in NFL history, that's right you heard it here first. Mid 2000's line =

T- Willie Roaf
G - Brian Waters
C - Casey Wigman
G - Will Shields
T - John Tait

That line was so good it made Trent Green and Priest Holmes - two terrible players, look like All Pros and carried a team leading the league in scoring with Eddy Kennifag as their best wideout.

If that line played in Dallas, all 5 would be first ballot hall of famers.

[GoBroncos DownUnder]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

Along with Willie Roaf, Will Shields anchored the greatest offensive line in NFL history, that's right you heard it here first. Mid 2000's line =

T- Willie Roaf
G - Brian Waters
C - Casey Wigman
G - Will Shields
T - John Tait

That line was so good it made Trent Green and Priest Holmes - two terrible players, look like All Pros and carried a team leading the league in scoring with Eddy Kennifag as their best wideout.

If that line played in Dallas, all 5 would be first ballot hall of famers.

Oh, and Elvis Grbac!

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

With all the great Broncos getting snubbed year after year I'm supposed to care about Will Shields, a former Chief? Get the **** out of here...

This.

[gunns]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

It shouldn't apply to anyone IMO. Certainly winning Super Bowls should factor in to the overall assessment, but not to the degree it currently does. Dan Marino is arguably the greatest pure passer in the history of the league but he never had a great team around him so he never won a Super Bowl. Meanwhile Montana was surrounded by HoFers and won four. Elway wouldn't have ever won a Super Bowl without the likes of Terrell Davis, Shannon Sharpe, and many other great players. Using Super Bowls or the lack thereof to assess someone's career, QB or otherwise, is patently retarded.

Oh and I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Terry Bradshaw (a QB probably on par with Trent Dilfer) is in the HoF because he was on one of the most dominant teams of all-time. If this isn't a perfect example of why merely being on championship teams shouldn't get you in to the Hall, I don't know what is.

I agree with this. Except that Marino never had a great team. Maybe not great but he had better teams than Elway did for his first 3 SB's. Thank you, thank you for stating that about Bradshaw. The word overrated has his picture by it in the dictionary.

I agree that Shields should have gotten in. I don't believe the SB should be a deciding factor and I agree with who said those getting in by merely getting stats because of their teammates.....and longevity. I'm looking at you Bettis. But until they start recognizing Bronco players I'm not going to freak out over a Chief not getting in. I'm still doing that over Bronco players.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

Along with Willie Roaf, Will Shields anchored the greatest offensive line in NFL history, that's right you heard it here first. Mid 2000's line =

T- Willie Roaf
G - Brian Waters
C - Casey Wigman
G - Will Shields
T - John Tait

That line was so good it made Trent Green and Priest Holmes - two terrible players, look like All Pros and carried a team leading the league in scoring with Eddy Kennifag as their best wideout.

If that line played in Dallas, all 5 would be first ballot hall of famers.

Greatest offensive line of all-time?

The greatest offensive line of all-time should have produced at least one playoff win don't you think? Just ask the late 90's Broncos o-line or the early to mid 90's Cowboys o-line.

[Willynowei]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Greatest offensive line of all-time?

The greatest offensive line of all-time should have produced at least one playoff win don't you think? Just ask the late 90's Broncos o-line or the early to mid 90's Cowboys o-line.

Did you know there's 11 guys on the other side called defense and a qb, runningback and 4 other eligible recievers in football?

And O-lines aren't judged the same way as Quarterbacks genius, its rare that 5 players play on the same line for more than 1 year, nevermind the 10+ years that top QB's play.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Willynowei

Did you know there's 11 guys on the other side called defense and a qb, runningback and 4 other eligible recievers in football?

O-lines aren't judged the same way as Quarterbacks, dumbass, its rare that 5 players play on teh same line for more than 1 year, nevermind the 10+ years that top QB's play.

O-lines most certainly are judged like QBs, at least by those who have a clue. An o-line is arguably the most important aspect of a team, possibly even more important than QB (as a unit). Besides let's not pretend the Chiefs didn't have tons of talent elsewhere in the mid 2000's.

You made the statement that they were the greatest o-line of all-time, but there is zero evidence of that. No playoff wins. No 2000 yard rushers. Nothing.

[Willynowei]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

O-lines most certainly are judged like QBs, at least by those who have a clue. An o-line is arguably the most important aspect of a team, possibly even more important than QB (as a unit). Besides let's not pretend the Chiefs didn't have tons of talent elsewhere in the mid 2000's.

You made the statement that they were the greatest o-line of all-time, but there is zero evidence of that. No playoff wins. No 2000 yard rushers. Nothing.

That's exactly what i'm saying - they had ZERO talent elsewhere outside of Tony Gonzalez. Priest Holmes couldn't keep a starting job in Baltimore before Jamal Lewis even broke out, Trent Green is famous only for getting injured so Warner could play. The defense literally had ZERO talent, ZERO. Their first good defensive player - Jared Allen got drafted just before the team fell apart offensively.

That Chiefs O-line dominated every unit put up against it, including the Colts, as they put up 35 points against them, its not their fault if Trent Green misses a third down throw or Kennison drops them more often than he catches them.

And frankly, the way you judge is retarded and exactly how the media looks at things - from the lense of a casual fan. Its the same lense that makes the HOF a joke. Its the same lense that will put Eli Manning in the same light as his brother, whose 10 times the QB he is. Whole thing is a joke.

If you actually appreciate good football above all else, watching that line play, its obvious they were the best ever, you can see it in their footwork and physical mauling of everyone that went up against them, Trent had 10 yards of space and 10 seconds to throw, and that's not even an exaggeration.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

Guard=Salad

Even when they're the best, they're still a ****ing salad (or guard).

God you are a ****ing retard.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

He's still a guard at the end of the day.

[sirhcyennek81]

Apparently it pays to work for the NFL's network. Strahan was a better player than Sapp, hands down.

[extralife]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Meanwhile Montana was surrounded by HoFers and won four.

I'm so, so sick of this logic. Do you know who those hall of famers were surrounded by? Joe ****ing Montana. Look at his playoff resume.

Oh, and then there's the little matter of the first two super bowls. Lets look at the starting offense for your 1984 San Francisco 49ers:

Joe Montana, Roger Craig, Wendell Tyler, Freddie Solomon, Dwight Clark, Bubba Paris, John Ayers, Fred Quillan, Randy Cross, Keith Fahnhorst.

that team went 15-1 and had the number 2 offense in the NFL.

lets scroll through that list and pick out the hall of famers. I think I see...one? What was his name? Oh yeah: Joe ****ing Montana.

Roger Craig was boderline great, Clark and Solomon were fairly average, Tyler was a pretty good player, Randy Cross was a very good guard. That's not an offensive roster that's blowing anyone away. Give it to the Broncos and you'd call it pretty good. The 81 team was not any better. People remember Jerry Rice because he's Jerry Rice, but Montana won two super bowls without that guy.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by extralife

I'm so, so sick of this logic. Do you know who those hall of famers were surrounded by? Joe ****ing Montana. Look at his playoff resume.

Oh, and then there's the little matter of the first two super bowls. Lets look at the starting offense for your 1984 San Francisco 49ers:

Joe Montana, Roger Craig, Wendell Tyler, Freddie Solomon, Dwight Clark, Bubba Paris, John Ayers, Fred Quillan, Randy Cross, Keith Fahnhorst.

that team went 15-1 and had the number 2 offense in the NFL.

lets scroll through that list and pick out the hall of famers. I think I see...one? What was his name? Oh yeah: Joe ****ing Montana.

Roger Craig was boderline great, Clark and Solomon were fairly average, Tyler was a pretty good player, Randy Cross was a very good guard. That's not an offensive roster that's blowing anyone away. Give it to the Broncos and you'd call it pretty good. The 81 team was not any better. People remember Jerry Rice because he's Jerry Rice, but Montana won two super bowls without that guy.

Rep. This is a very good response. You can love Elway without trying to turn Joe into a crappy player. It took Joe Monana to give the Chiefs their only playoff win since the sixties. He should be one of the GOATs just for that alone.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

God you are a ****ing retard.

Guards are like brussel sprouts.

[gyldenlove]

Some positions are just not valued right. We saw it with Shannon Sharpe who set the standard for tight ends and still had to wait to get in, now Will Shields who set the marker for offensive guards and Ray Guy who will probably not get in until he qualifies as one of the 2 old time candidates.

[SimonFletcher73]

This is going to be a long offseason.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by GoBroncos DownUnder

Will Shields, one of the NFL's best Guards to ever play is passed up for Hall of Fame induction ...
He should have been a FIRST ballot inductee, this HoF voting crap needs to be FIXED, it's a wash with pompous, self promoting journalists, and they are ****ing this all up repeatedly!

Your thoughts??

Gotta agree. What is the HoF about? It's about the best players to ever play the game on the professional level, get acknowledged for how great they played the game. period.

You can't win games without guards, sorry. Sure it's not as glamorous as other positions but all the oline positions are there for a reason.