Are we still racist? - Rooney Rule

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

I don't have a litmus test for whether or not I judge someone to be a racist, although using terms like "white guilt" or "politically correct" would be a potentially good one.

I judge people to be racist when they say or imply racist things, like Reverend and now Broncoholic have done with their implications that qualified minority head coaches just simply don't exist. Broncoholic took it one step further and insinuated that something about those brown people just doesn't give them the temperament for coaching.


Like, right now I just think it's highly likely that you're a racist. Unlike Reverend and Broncoholic you haven't proven it yet.

I'll take it one step further, heck I'll take all your posts to their logical conclusion, you are tard of the highest order. Does that make me racist too?

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

Pretty funny you being white, while clueless on my race.

I don't care what race you are. Clarence Thomas is a black skinned white supremacist.

You gave a racist opinion, you're a racist.

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

I'll take it one step further, heck I'll take all your posts to their logical conclusion, you are tard of the highest order. Does that make me racist too?

More than likely, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Kaylore]

It's nice to know somewhere there is a white guy telling a black guy how he doesn't know anything about being a minority while simultaneously telling everyone else how racist they all are.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

I don't care what race you are. Clarence Thomas is a black skinned white supremacist.

You gave a racist opinion, you're a racist.

I gave a true opinion. Too bad you can't see that.

Tell us about how much swag you have in the black community cool guy. What's next, a list of friends names you got that resemble a black people? GTFO

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

Like, right now I just think it's highly likely that you're a racist. Unlike Reverend and Broncoholic you haven't proven it yet.

Says the misanthrope.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

I don't have a litmus test for whether or not I judge someone to be a racist, although using terms like "white guilt" or "politically correct" would be a potentially good one.

I judge people to be racist when they say or imply racist things, like Reverend and now Broncoholic have done with their implications that qualified minority head coaches just simply don't exist. Broncoholic took it one step further and insinuated that something about those brown people just doesn't give them the temperament for coaching.


Like, right now I just think it's highly likely that you're a racist. Unlike Reverend and Broncoholic you haven't proven it yet.

You support a system desgined to at the very least interview coaches of color. This system does not guarantee these coaches have any actual talent at coaching. The bare minimum it requires is a dark skin tone. It goes for quantity, not quality. Which is the problem with anything steeped in affirmative action dogma. Your support for such a rule is why I believe you are awash in white guilt, and the actual racist.

You have argued that GM's hire people "like them". Rev has pointed out black GM's who did not hire black HC's. You decry him as racist.

If you cannot see the logic fail of the rooney rule, then you are not only naive, but blatantly stupid and simply parroting the politically correct position.

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

I gave a true opinion. Too bad you can't see that.

Tell us about how much swag you have in the black community cool guy. What's next, a list of friends names you got that resemble a black people? GTFO

Swag on a hundred thousand trillion

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

You support a system desgined to at the very least interview coaches of color. This system does not guarantee these coaches have any actual talent at coaching. The bare minimum it requires is a dark skin tone. It goes for quantity, not quality. Which is the problem with anything steeped in affirmative action dogma. Your support for such a rule is why I believe you are awash in white guilt, and the actual racist.

You have argued that GM's hire people "like them". Rev has pointed out black GM's who did not hire black HC's. You decry him as racist.

If you cannot see the logic fail of the rooney rule, then you are not only naive, but blatantly stupid and simply parroting the politically correct position.

This

Boooom. Game over.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

More than likely, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I guess I dodged a major bullet there, thanks!

[TheReverend]

ITT:

An African American poster supports GMs hiring the best man for the job while someone self-described as "lily white" calls him a racist for not calling NFL GMs racist.

Go figure.

[sirhcyennek81]

I need to get ready for work, but I leave thirtydegrees with this:


I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. - MLK

I bid you all adieu, gentlemen (that's not sexist, is it?).

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

I don't have a litmus test for whether or not I judge someone to be a racist, although using terms like "white guilt" or "politically correct" would be a potentially good one.

I judge people to be racist when they say or imply racist things, like Reverend and now Broncoholic have done with their implications that qualified minority head coaches just simply don't exist. Broncoholic took it one step further and insinuated that something about those brown people just doesn't give them the temperament for coaching.


Like, right now I just think it's highly likely that you're a racist. Unlike Reverend and Broncoholic you haven't proven it yet.

You're out of your ****ing mind... quote where either of us even remotely IMPLIED such a thing?

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

The NFL owners should just interview snoop dog to fullfill the rule.

Well, he did coach a team to the Super Bowl. Of course that was Pop Warner Football but he still has the skills.

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

I need to get ready for work, but I leave thirtydegrees with this:


I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. - MLK

I bid you all adieu, gentlemen (that's not sexist, is it?).

Here are some other quotes from Martin Luther King Jr. that you may find interesting.


"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro""

Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."


Please refrain from denigrating the man's legacy by twisting his words to support a discriminatory status quo. He'd be sickened by it.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

I bet the Redskins are really glad they hired an overrated loser who rode Steve Young and John Elway's coattails after he ruined RGIII's career this year in a cynical attempt to win a playoff game to protect his job security.

Jeff Fisher is nothing special, I will guarantee right now that the Chiefs will never amount to anything under Andy Reid.

You forgot to mention that our current coach parachuted into his position after finishing 2-14 and giving his team the first overall pick.

Meanwhile he's been a disgrace and the team has won in spite of his decision making.

If John Fox were named Juan Fox or Jerome Fox he wouldn't be an NFL head coach right now and the proof is that Jim Caldwell and Lovie Smith haven't been rehired as NFL coaches despite having the exact same qualifications that John Fox has.

I would be very surprised if those two do not find a job within a year. If anything, should they be considered part of the retreads that the NFL seems to go with? I call it the Benefit of the Doubt pick. It is safe as they are a veteran coach and the team feels it must have been other tangibles that made their former team suck eggs. I guess a year in waiting will tell if your opinion holds water. Caldwell had the yo yo two year career with the Colts.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

Here are some other quotes from Martin Luther King Jr. that you may find interesting.


"A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro""

Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic."


Please refrain from denigrating the man's legacy by twisting his words to support a discriminatory status quo. He'd be sickened by it.

Please. Twisting a quote? Why don't you post the entire sentence?

A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for him in order to equip him to compete on a just and equal basis.

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

You support a system desgined to at the very least interview coaches of color. This system does not guarantee these coaches have any actual talent at coaching. The bare minimum it requires is a dark skin tone. It goes for quantity, not quality. Which is the problem with anything steeped in affirmative action dogma. Your support for such a rule is why I believe you are awash in white guilt, and the actual racist.

You have argued that GM's hire people "like them". Rev has pointed out black GM's who did not hire black HC's. You decry him as racist.

If you cannot see the logic fail of the rooney rule, then you are not only naive, but blatantly stupid and simply parroting the politically correct position.

Your implication is that minority candidates are somehow less likely to be qualified than white candidates. Furthermore you imply that coaches that have previously been interviewed under the stipulations of the Rooney Rule were not qualified.

I have argued that GM's are more likely to hire people like them, yes. It's quite different from what you are falsely claiming that I have argued.

Also, unlike anyone else in this thread, I have provided documented and scientific evidence that proves this to be true.

Your argument isn't new, people were saying the same things twenty years ago.

Teams claimed they couldn't find a qualified minority candidate, meanwhile Tony Dungy languished as an assistant coach for fifteen years before he was finally qualified.

Fast forward to 2006, with the implementation of the Rooney Rule, and Mike Tomlin only had to wait five years before he was given a chance to coach an NFL team.

All a team had to do this season to meet the requirements of the Rooney Rule was to interview one of two black men who have coached in a Super Bowl in either Jim Caldwell or Lovie Smith.

The implication that either man is so unqualified for an NFL job as to not merit an interview, when they are better coaches than at least 25% of the currently employed coaches, (including John Fox) is pathetic and racist.

According to you, a coach like Louisville's Charlie Strong, who just coached his team to a blowout win over heavily favored Florida in the Sugar Bowl is completely unqualified as to not even merit an interview from an NFL team.

Strong is 52 and just now got his first chance to lead a major football program.

What do you think the odds are that he would have had to wait until he was 52 if he was white?

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Please. Twisting a quote? Why don't you post the entire sentence?

Thankfully the Rooney Rule does just that by allowing minorities to compete on an equal basis.

It doesn't grant them anything other than an opportunity to make their case for employment.

Anyone that thinks this is somehow too much has real problems with race.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

Thankfully the Rooney Rule does just that by allowing minorities to compete on an equal basis.

It doesn't grant them anything other than an opportunity to make their case for employment.

Anyone that thinks this is somehow too much has real problems with race.

Here's the problem - it's a total joke. You really think a token interview based purely on skin color has moved things forward?

How about adressing the real problem IE there aren't enough assistant coaches that are minorities? You are the worst kind of racist because you want to allow these types of racist, overly-simplistic policies to continue to exist so you can tell yourself "we're doing something."

More racism doesn't fix racism. It fuels the problem by 1.) continuing to treat a group of people differently based on arbitrary chariteristics and 2.) invites resentment from others not sharing those characteristics who don't get those opportunities.

The black coaches themselves think it's a joke. The people it's supposed to help don't like it. The front offices don't care for it. And its racist.

At the end of the day, the front office is going to hire who they want regardless of race. In a performance driven business they want the best candidate and don't care where they're from. The problem is getting more minorities to put the time in to be assistant coaches.

[TheReverend]

I think ThirtyDegrees has gotten about as racist as someone can get here without going on a "N-word" tangent.

[DENVERDUI55]

Loop hole in rooney rule it is fulfilled if a team fires an African American HC.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Here's the problem - it's a total joke. You really think a token interview based purely on skin color has moved things forward?

How about adressing the real problem IE there aren't enough assistant coaches that are minorities? You are the worst kind of racist because you want to allow these types of racist, overly-simplistic policies to continue to exist so you can tell yourself "we're doing something."

More racism doesn't fix racism. It fuels the problem by 1.) continuing to treat a group of people differently based on arbitrary chariteristics and 2.) invites resentment from others not sharing those characteristics who don't get those opportunities.

The black coaches themselves think it's a joke. The people it's supposed to help don't like it. The front offices don't care for it. And its racist.

At the end of the day, the front office is going to hire who they want regardless of race. In a performance driven business they want the best candidate and don't care where they're from. The problem is getting more minorities to put the time in to be assistant coaches.

I agree. Though i think the one thing the Rooney Rule has done is allow minority candidates to impress in an interview, regardless if that team hires them or not. That can only help their cause for future jobs.

[Agamemnon]

This whole topic is idiotic. Making racist rules will never get rid of racism. Ultimately it's just going to take time. Just look at the QB position. It's not the all white guy club it used to be, and that didn't happen because of some rule that made teams draft black quarterbacks.

By the way are Ozzie Newsome and Reggie McKenzie racist against black head coaches too? They both hired white guys after all.

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Here's the problem - it's a total joke. You really think a token interview based purely on skin color has moved things forward?

Yes, I do. It's a fact. From 1921-2003 there only were seven minority head coaches hired by NFL/AFL franchises. Since 2003 NFL teams have hired eight minority head coaches. In the ten years since the rule's inception there have been more minority head coaches hired by NFL teams than there were in the previous 80 years combined.

How about adressing the real problem IE there aren't enough assistant coaches that are minorities? You are the worst kind of racist because you want to allow these types of racist, overly-simplistic policies to continue to exist so you can tell yourself "we're doing something."

I support the extension of the Rooney Rule to include assistant coaching positions, so does Tony Dungy and many others who seek to make the rule have a more significant impact.

I fail to see how one could place more minority assistant coaches without using a similar system. What are you proposing to do something substantial if you find the Rooney Rule so anathema?

More racism doesn't fix racism. It fuels the problem by 1.) continuing to treat a group of people differently based on arbitrary chariteristics and 2.) invites resentment from others not sharing those characteristics who don't get those opportunities.

The Rooney Rule isn't racist. It simply acknowledges the fact that people are not color blind and that race plays a role in their decision making process, whether it is on a conscious level or not. Again, it is a provable fact that people are more likely to prefer candidates that are racially similar to them.

The Rooney Rule simply helps to level the playing field and allow minority candidates a fair opportunity. Nothing more.

The black coaches themselves think it's a joke.The people it's supposed to help don't like it.

Which black coaches think the rule is "a joke" on principle? Provide evidence for these assertions.

At the end of the day, the front office is going to hire who they want regardless of race. In a performance driven business they want the best candidate and don't care where they're from.

Who is disputing this? The point that you cannot seem to grasp is that the reasoning that front offices use to find the best candidate is fundamentally flawed. Qualified candidates are overlooked, like Tony Dungy was for fifteen years before he was hired by the Buccaneers.

The Miami Dolphins decided that Cam Cameron was a better candidate than Mike Tomlin in 2007. The Dolphins went 1-15 (then tied for the NFL worst mark) and the Steelers hired Tomlin and won a Super Bowl

The problem is getting more minorities to put the time in to be assistant coaches.

This is a racist statement. Thank you for proving my point with your bullsh*t about "lazy minorities."

There are numerous minority position and assistant coaches in both college and the NFL. The problem is that they don't get the chance for promotion that white coaches do and they don't have the same connections that white coaches do.

More than that, minority coaches don't get the same chances to learn on the job and fail before parachuting into a new job like white coaches do.