Are we still racist? - Rooney Rule

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

I'll reiterate this point one last time because clearly someone like ThirtyDegrees is projecting very personal experiences to this situation and people's comments within it:

If people hire what they associate with, why are black GMs hiring exclusively white coaches?

Could it possibly be--when examined on an individual basis--they hired the guy they felt was best suited for the job without any regard to skin color? Because, quite frankly, THEIR jobs and the well being of their family are on the line? Because it's a decision where ultimately hundreds of millions of dollars are on the line?

Na, couldn't be. They must be Clayton Bigsbys.

No, it's because you are a ****ing moron who can't read.

People are *more likely* to recommend or hire candidates that are more like them. It isn't a binary process. The statistics that I've quoted you multiple times bear that out. People are much more likely (to the tune of 71.5%) to recommend people of the same race for job openings.

Futhermore, white coaches are more likely to have the kinds of connections and reputations that allow them to be referred for positions than minority coaches are.

Just because a team has a black GM does not mean that every person able to weigh in on a hiring decision is black. Even teams with black GMs almost certainly have overwhelmingly white front offices as a whole. So those black GMs are being given information that is potentially skewed by ingrained biases of people who select for those that are like them.

I have not stated that any conscious racism is at play from NFL executives. This kind of racially based selection and bias is not a choice, it's part of a flawed thought process that people of every race exhibit.

What the Rooney Rule (and other explicit parameters that try to diversify a candidate pool) does, if used properly, is to expose executives to a wider pool of candidates and allow them to make better decisions than they otherwise would.

The only person that I have called a racist is you, because you're insinuation is that the best black head coach available on the planet is not as good as the revolving door of mediocre white guys that NFL teams so regularly hire after their teams finish 2-14 or 4-12.

You continue to act as if the GMs that routinely make the decision to flout the Rooney Rule to hire their predetermined white coaches that then do terrible jobs are actually making the correct decisions.

Point of fact, the teams that decide upon "their guy" (inevitably a white guy) and ignore the Rooney Rule to hire retread white coaches almost always make stupid mistakes.

The idea that the Shanahans, Reids, Foxs, Manginis, and Fishers of the world are better than the best minority coach available on the planet is asinine, and the teams that make these decisions almost always pay for them.

If these GMs actually used the Rooney Rule for what it was there for, maybe they'd be competent at their jobs.

[Kaylore]

Thirty Degrees, are you a minority?

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Thirty Degrees, are you a minority?

Not that it's remotely relevant, but nope I'm as lily white as they come.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

No, it's because you are a ****ing moron who can't read.

People are *more likely* to recommend or hire candidates that are more like them. It isn't a binary process. The statistics that I've quoted you multiple times bear that out. People are much more likely (to the tune of 71.5%) to recommend people of the same race for job openings.

Futhermore, white coaches are more likely to have the kinds of connections and reputations that allow them to be referred for positions than minority coaches are.

Just because a team has a black GM does not mean that every person able to weigh in on a hiring decision is black. Even teams with black GMs almost certainly have overwhelmingly white front offices as a whole. So those black GMs are being given information that is potentially skewed by ingrained biases of people who select for those that are like them.

I have not stated that any conscious racism is at play from NFL executives. This kind of racially based selection and bias is not a choice, it's part of a flawed thought process that people of every race exhibit.

What the Rooney Rule (and other explicit parameters that try to diversify a candidate pool) does, if used properly, is to expose executives to a wider pool of candidates and allow them to make better decisions than they otherwise would.

The only person that I have called a racist is you, because you're insinuation is that the best black head coach available on the planet is not as good as the revolving door of mediocre white guys that NFL teams so regularly hire after their teams finish 2-14 or 4-12.

You continue to act as if the GMs that routinely make the decision to flout the Rooney Rule to hire their predetermined white coaches that then do terrible jobs are actually making the correct decisions.

Point of fact, the teams that decide upon "their guy" (inevitably a white guy) and ignore the Rooney Rule to hire retread white coaches almost always make stupid mistakes.

The idea that the Shanahans, Reids, Foxs, Manginis, and Fishers of the world are better than the best minority coach available on the planet is asinine, and the teams that make these decisions almost always pay for them.

If these GMs actually used the Rooney Rule for what it was there for, maybe they'd be competent at their jobs.

You are out of your ****ing mind.

...And, for the record, the Shanahan, Reid, Fishers of the world are better than the best minority coaches available... and JUST AS IMPORTANTLY (here comes that pesky old equality thing that you keep dodging again) better than the best WHITE coaches available. Their track records kind of bear that out, kiddo.

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

You are out of your ****ing mind.

...And, for the record, the Shanahan, Reid, Fishers of the world are better than the best minority coaches available... and JUST AS IMPORTANTLY (here comes that pesky old equality thing that you keep dodging again) better than the best WHITE coaches available. Their track records kind of bear that out, kiddo.

I bet the Redskins are really glad they hired an overrated loser who rode Steve Young and John Elway's coattails after he ruined RGIII's career this year in a cynical attempt to win a playoff game to protect his job security.

Jeff Fisher is nothing special, I will guarantee right now that the Chiefs will never amount to anything under Andy Reid.

You forgot to mention that our current coach parachuted into his position after finishing 2-14 and giving his team the first overall pick.

Meanwhile he's been a disgrace and the team has won in spite of his decision making.

If John Fox were named Juan Fox or Jerome Fox he wouldn't be an NFL head coach right now and the proof is that Jim Caldwell and Lovie Smith haven't been rehired as NFL coaches despite having the exact same qualifications that John Fox has.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

I fully agree with this, but I think the NFL already does a really good job at it.

Remember the trajectory of Raheem Morris' career? He went from quality control to position coach, skipped coordinating altogether and became a head coach in the blink of an eye. Tampa's GM (a white guy) saw something special in him and took a shot. He ended up being wrong (or maybe just too early), but he took a shot.

Leslie Frazier's career was shot out of a cannon too, etc etc etc

Mike Zimmer with the Bengals has DRAGGED that team to the post season several times in recent years, has been coaching in the NFL for nearly two decades, excelled in every position, and has been a "hot coaching candidate" for several years now... still in Cinci. Must be race related? ...or his vision that he's sharing in interviews isn't up to snuff. I'll bet on the latter.

Frazier and Morris are perfect examples of how a structured program for former minority players could lead to fast rising coaching careers. Surely, among the ranks of former minority NFL players, there are a number of potential Morris' and Frazier's who simply lack the proper connections and just need an opportunity to get their foot in the door.

Originally Posted by TheReverend

You are out of your ****ing mind.

...And, for the record, the Shanahan, Reid, Fishers of the world are better than the best minority coaches available... and JUST AS IMPORTANTLY (here comes that pesky old equality thing that you keep dodging again) better than the best WHITE coaches available. Their track records kind of bear that out, kiddo.

Yeah, he could have forwarded his argument better if he would have mentioned guys like Norv Turner, Chan Gailey and Mike Mularkey (i.e. white coaches who have been failures as an HC multiple times).

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

Frazier and Morris are perfect examples of how a structured program for former minority players could lead to fast rising coaching careers. Surely, among the ranks of former minority NFL players, there are a number of potential Morris' and Frazier's without the proper connections who simply need an opportunity to get their foot in the door.

I think that opportunity already exists. A lot of players (regardless of race) don't become coaches because they see how demanding the job is while they're playing.

There's an annual article about Rod Smith working with the receivers and whatever coaching staff is current telling him he's got a position, etc.

Al Harris just signed on with Kansas City to coach.

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

Yeah, he could have forwarded his argument better if he would have mentioned guys like Norv Turner, Chan Gailey and Mike Mularkey (i.e. white coaches who have been failures as an HC multiple times).

You should note that from your examples, Buddy Nix is the only one who's retained his job and is currently treading on very thin ice in Buffalo.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

I bet the Redskins are really glad they hired an overrated loser who rode Steve Young and John Elway's coattails after he ruined RGIII's career this year in a cynical attempt to win a playoff game to protect his job security.

Welp, that puts any questions about your intelligence level to bed.

Enjoy drooling in your oatmeal.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

What the **** are you babbling about? Learn to ****ing read. The statistic was that 71.5% of people select for people of their own race and over 60% select for people of their own gender when making recommendations.

Again, white coaches have more connections in general and white men make up most of the coaching and executive positions in the NFL.

Does it shock me that Rick Smith hired a white guy that he just happened to know from his time with the Broncos to coach the Texans? Not at all.

However, the Rooney Rule allowed for at least one minority coaching candidate to interview with the Texans and gain experience and connections that he didn't have that Gary Kubiak did and was able to leverage into his position.

I'm just going to come down on the side that you're just a flat out racist.

Edit: Also Jerry Reese wasn't even general manager when Tom Coughlin was hired you racist moron.

You of course are 100% correct.

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Welp, that puts any questions about your intelligence level to bed.

Enjoy drooling in your oatmeal.

If you still think that Shanahan is anything other than an average coach who struck gold with the positions he fell into in San Francisco and Denver then you're just as stupid as I thought you were.

Unless of course you're going to tell me that no minority coach would have been smart enough to spend draft picks on Marcus Nash, Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, and Jarvis Moss.

People make a huge deal out of McDaniels' first draft and how terrible it was when Shanahan had literally half a dozen drafts that were just as terrible.

Shanahan let the defense atrophy for years until it eventually bottomed out into the black hole that was the McDaniels' era defense.

Then he went to Washington where he's done a piss poor job until he had the best quarterback talent in a decade fall into his lap. Shanahan proved his genius by allowing RGIII to suffer a catastrophic and potentially career altering injury in an attempt to win a meaningless playoff game.

Mindsets like yours are precisely the problem.

If it had been up to a moron like you, you'd hire Shanahan over superior coaches such as Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy, and you'd be an idiot for doing so.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

If you still think that Shanahan is anything other than an average coach who struck gold with the positions he fell into in San Francisco and Denver then you're just as stupid as I thought you were.

That must be why multiple HoF QBs personally thanked HIM in their inductions

Or why a coach like Belichick (and many more) refers to him as the hardest coach to prepare for

Or why he was one of the most sought after commodities in the coaching market when he was available.

Or why he managed to coach a team through a littany of injuries with a rookie QB to the playoffs in one of the most competitive divisions in football this year (taking the division title away from the SB champs).

Etc.

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

Unless of course you're going to tell me that no minority coach would have been smart enough to spend draft picks on Marcus Nash, Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, and Jarvis Moss.

People make a huge deal out of McDaniels' first draft and how terrible it was when Shanahan had literally half a dozen drafts that were just as terrible.

Shanahan let the defense atrophy for years until it eventually bottomed out into the black hole that was the McDaniels' era defense.

Then he went to Washington where he's done a piss poor job until he had the best quarterback talent in a decade fall into his lap. Shanahan proved his genius by allowing RGIII to suffer a catastrophic and potentially career altering injury in an attempt to win a meaningless playoff game.

Clearly you don't watch football, but FYI, they had to make a big trade to get RGIII. Certainly no "lap falling".

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

Mindsets like yours are precisely the problem.

If it had been up to a moron like you, you'd hire Shanahan over superior coaches such as Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy, and you'd be an idiot for doing so.

I would say a mindset like yours that accepts no responsibility and instead blames "the institution" is precisely the problem.

But again, you're an idiot. Every word you speak bears this out.

[OABB]

If this were a game of who could cook the best fried chicken there would be more black coaches.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

If you still think that Shanahan is anything other than an average coach who struck gold with the positions he fell into in San Francisco and Denver then you're just as stupid as I thought you were.

Unless of course you're going to tell me that no minority coach would have been smart enough to spend draft picks on Marcus Nash, Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Ashley Lelie, George Foster, and Jarvis Moss.

People make a huge deal out of McDaniels' first draft and how terrible it was when Shanahan had literally half a dozen drafts that were just as terrible.

Shanahan let the defense atrophy for years until it eventually bottomed out into the black hole that was the McDaniels' era defense.

Then he went to Washington where he's done a piss poor job until he had the best quarterback talent in a decade fall into his lap. Shanahan proved his genius by allowing RGIII to suffer a catastrophic and potentially career altering injury in an attempt to win a meaningless playoff game.

Mindsets like yours are precisely the problem.

If it had been up to a moron like you, you'd hire Shanahan over superior coaches such as Mike Tomlin or Tony Dungy, and you'd be an idiot for doing so.

That sir, is racist.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by OABB

If this were a game of who could cook the best fried chicken there would be more black coaches.

I'm white and make awesome fried chicken.

[OABB]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I'm white and make awesome fried chicken.

Racist.

[sirhcyennek81]

Sometimes fried chicken is awesome. Then you get some from KFC and you end up dying inside.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Sometimes fried chicken is awesome. Then you get some from KFC and you end up dying inside.

I always used to be fascinated with the skin/crisp from KFC. It used to taste so awesome to me. I would literally take all the breasts and rip off the skin and eat them before anyone else in my family could have it. Then again, I always used to eat the crisp out of the pan after my grandma would fry us up chicken for dinner too.

I ate KFC for a whole week for free because Oprah ended up putting out tickets online when they came out with the grilled chicken creations back in like 2009/10. Worst decision of my life. I think I spent about 18 hours on the toilet in a whole week and gained about 12 pounds.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

GMs hire who they think will lead their team. The best possible candidate for them. Too bad there are more Rahim Morris's and singletarys than Tomlins and fraziers. There's a reason Fewell doesn't get hired and its not his color.

There's not enough of them not because they are being smothered by the white man. It's cause there's not many that even want to get into coaching. Trying to say black GMs won't hire a black guy cause he's in a room full of whites is asinine. He's not worried about losing his job cause he hired the wrong color, he's worried about losing his job cause he hired the wrong coach.

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

GMs hire who they think will lead their team. The best possible candidate for them. Too bad there are more Rahim Morris's and singletarys than Tomlins and fraziers. There's a reason Fewell doesn't get hired and its not his color.

There's not enough of them not because they are being smothered by the white man. It's cause there's not many that even want to get into coaching. Trying to say black GMs won't hire a black guy cause he's in a room full of whites is asinine. He's not worried about losing his job cause he hired the wrong color, he's worried about losing his job cause he hired the wrong coach.

It really is good to know that the same posters that are idiots about football are also racists.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I always used to be fascinated with the skin/crisp from KFC. It used to taste so awesome to me. I would literally take all the breasts and rip off the skin and eat them before anyone else in my family could have it. Then again, I always used to eat the crisp out of the pan after my grandma would fry us up chicken for dinner too.

I ate KFC for a whole week for free because Oprah ended up putting out tickets online when they came out with the grilled chicken creations back in like 2009/10. Worst decision of my life. I think I spent about 18 hours on the toilet in a whole week and gained about 12 pounds.

Well frying something is scientifically proven to make it better. Who else would eat greenbeans otherwise? But still...KFC is of the devil. Only explanation. You know beforehand it wont end well. You know during it wont end well. You know after that it will not end well. Yet we keep buying it.

Why? WHY?

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

It really is good to know that the same posters that are idiots about football are also racists.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

It really is good to know that the same posters that are idiots about football are also racists.

Says the person riddled with white guilt.

Tell me, if someone has an opinion outside of what is politically correct, are they racist, sexist or homophobic? Is having an opinion contrary to that of the power's that be that threatening that minimizing them by yelling racist, sexist or homophobe the only recourse?

Grow up, son. Get a rolemodel.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Well frying something is scientifically proven to make it better. Who else would eat greenbeans otherwise? But still...KFC is of the devil. Only explanation. You know beforehand it wont end well. You know during it wont end well. You know after that it will not end well. Yet we keep buying it.

Why? WHY?

Medicinal Fried Chicken.



Cause it decreases testicular cancer!

[ThirtyDegrees]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Says the person riddled with white guilt.

Tell me, if someone has an opinion outside of what is politically correct, are they racist, sexist or homophobic? Is having an opinion contrary to that of the power's that be that threatening that minimizing them by yelling racist, sexist or homophobe the only recourse?

Grow up, son. Get a rolemodel.

I don't have a litmus test for whether or not I judge someone to be a racist, although using terms like "white guilt" or "politically correct" would be a potentially good one.

I judge people to be racist when they say or imply racist things, like Reverend and now Broncoholic have done with their implications that qualified minority head coaches just simply don't exist. Broncoholic took it one step further and insinuated that something about those brown people just doesn't give them the temperament for coaching.


Like, right now I just think it's highly likely that you're a racist. Unlike Reverend and Broncoholic you haven't proven it yet.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

It really is good to know that the same posters that are idiots about football are also racists.

Pretty funny you being white, while clueless on my race. Shows how stupid you really are. I ain't white