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Old 01-31-2013, 09:24 PM   #26
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The league isn't hiring enough white cornerbacks. Clearly the "David Duke" rule isn't working.


That's racist.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:53 PM   #27
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The rooney rule is completely stupid. But like all things regarding race in the US, it is easier to disregard the person's ability and hire them simply because of what color they happen to be to avoid being called racist then get the best person for the job.

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Old 01-31-2013, 11:49 PM   #28
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Could it be considered "racist" if I wasn't considered a "minority candidate" under the Rooney Rule?
I am from Australia, and there are only 3 of my people in the NFL!
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:54 PM   #29
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The Rooney Rule has been great for the NFL. Not only has it opened owners up to hiring black coaches it has given these coaches a chance to go through the interview process more and become more polished.

The big reason why there are not any black hirings today is because there are no black coaches calling the plays for their team. The league is hiring offensive coordinators and these people need to call their plays.

The Rooney rule is great.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:28 AM   #30
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It's a business. Teams should be able to hire anyone they want and not forced to interview any potential canidates.
Why are you acting as if this is somehow a government intervention? The league is a business, and it has made a business decision to force its constituent teams to follow the Rooney Rule.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:58 AM   #31
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The Rooney Rule has been great for the NFL. Not only has it opened owners up to hiring black coaches it has given these coaches a chance to go through the interview process more and become more polished.

The big reason why there are not any black hirings today is because there are no black coaches calling the plays for their team. The league is hiring offensive coordinators and these people need to call their plays.

The Rooney rule is great.
How is any of that "Great for the NFL?"

Maybe good for the guys who get an interview, but most of those guys are already on the short list as potential HC candidates anyway. Forcing someone to interview them however furthers no cause.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:33 AM   #32
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Could it be considered "racist" if I wasn't considered a "minority candidate" under the Rooney Rule?
I am from Australia, and there are only 3 of my people in the NFL!
Australians aren't a race.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:53 AM   #33
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Re: Whitepeoplemeet and Hispanic judge comments: Those are classic examples of the majority not grasping what it's like being a minority.

Whites have been the majority in this country for a very long time and even today with some notable exceptions of course, white people have had a monopoly on positions of power and influence.

You walk into any public space and see other white people. It's not an issue for you. You don't need a website and if you think you do, yeah you are likely just a bit racist. I can sometimes go weeks without seeing someone of my background who I'm not related to. It doesn't bother me, but I can tell you there is a connection when I do encounter someone. I wouldn't be motivated to find a website but I can understand why people would, and it's not racist. It'd be the same thing if a white American were living in an Asian country, for example. I guarantee if you'd been living there some time and suddenly encountered another white American in a store, you'd probably be more inclined to go talk to that person than you would a random Asian stranger, and that wouldn't be racist.

There is no profession in this country a white person can't aspire to without feeling they have to break down walls because of their race. There are many such professions for anyone of just about any other race. So that's why the Hispanic judge wants to make an impact in her community by virtue of her becoming a judge. Simply not an issue for a white person.

Yeah, there's a "race card" that gets gratuitously played. But make no mistake about it, peeps, there's a "race card card" that gets played just as gratuitously, more often (just look at this here fine thread), and it rarely gets called out.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:44 AM   #34
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It'd be the same thing if a white American were living in an Asian country, for example. I guarantee if you'd been living there some time and suddenly encountered another white American in a store, you'd probably be more inclined to go talk to that person than you would a random Asian stranger
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:53 AM   #35
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I've lived in Asia for over 5 years now and if I see another American/white person I usually try to avoid them much more than I would a local. What now?
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:59 AM   #36
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Re: Whitepeoplemeet and Hispanic judge comments: Those are classic examples of the majority not grasping what it's like being a minority.
That post was written by a black guy.

I'll go get you a napkin for that egg on your face.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:46 AM   #37
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Australians aren't a race.
I never said anything about my racial background.
I was referring to being an immigrant from another country, would I be considered a "minority" by the NFL's Rooney Rule?
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:04 AM   #38
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How is any of that "Great for the NFL?"

Maybe good for the guys who get an interview, but most of those guys are already on the short list as potential HC candidates anyway. Forcing someone to interview them however furthers no cause.
You, and everyone else who questions the Rooney Rule, (other than the obvious racists) need to educate yourselves on basic psychology.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/bu...g.html?hp&_r=0

"People tend to recommend people much like themselves, economists say, a phenomenon known as assortative matching. Mr. Topa’s study for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that 63.5 percent of employees recommended candidates of the same sex, while 71.5 percent favored the same race or ethnicity."

---------------------------

The problem is that white coaches not only have better networks than black coaches, the overwhelming whiteness of NFL front offices means that they naturally select for people like them. This can be done without any conscious racism whatsoever.

Mediocre, and sometimes even terrible, white coaches participate in a carousel of job interviews before and after they are fired or otherwise prove themselves incapable of a job.

Meanwhile, black coaches of the same talent level are overlooked because they lack the same connections as white coaches.

Here's a pertinent example, our head coach is one of the mediocre to terrible failures that was able to slide into a new job based upon his connections.

Despite leading his team to the worst record in football in 2010, John Fox was able to slot himself right into a new job.

Meanwhile, Lovie Smith, a coach with a resume almost identical to John Fox's (except he won ten games in his last season before being fired instead of two) has yet to find a job at all.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:08 AM   #39
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The problem is that white coaches not only have better networks than black coaches, the overwhelming whiteness of NFL front offices means that they naturally select for people like them. This can be done without any conscious racism whatsoever.
You're probably onto something... These guys all hired white coaches. Must be racists.

Martin Mayhew - Detroit Lions
Jerry Reese - New York Giants
Ozzie Newsome - Baltimore Ravens
Rick Smith - Houston Texans
Reggie McKenzie-Oakland Raiders

and Rod Graves-Arizona Cardinals until his and Whiz's firing
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:19 AM   #40
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That post was written by a black guy.

I'll go get you a napkin for that egg on your face.
No egg on my face, sparky. Black guys are just as entitled to an uninformed perspective as white guys.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:21 AM   #41
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You're probably onto something... These guys all hired white coaches. Must be racists.

Martin Mayhew - Detroit Lions
Jerry Reese - New York Giants
Ozzie Newsome - Baltimore Ravens
Rick Smith - Houston Texans
Reggie McKenzie-Oakland Raiders

and Rod Graves-Arizona Cardinals until his and Whiz's firing
What the **** are you babbling about? Learn to ****ing read. The statistic was that 71.5% of people select for people of their own race and over 60% select for people of their own gender when making recommendations.

Again, white coaches have more connections in general and white men make up most of the coaching and executive positions in the NFL.

Does it shock me that Rick Smith hired a white guy that he just happened to know from his time with the Broncos to coach the Texans? Not at all.

However, the Rooney Rule allowed for at least one minority coaching candidate to interview with the Texans and gain experience and connections that he didn't have that Gary Kubiak did and was able to leverage into his position.

I'm just going to come down on the side that you're just a flat out racist.

Edit: Also Jerry Reese wasn't even general manager when Tom Coughlin was hired you racist moron.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:28 AM   #42
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What the **** are you babbling about? Learn to ****ing read. The statistic was that 71.5% of people select for people of their own race and over 60% select for people of their own gender when making recommendations.
Odd that EVERY black general manager hired white coaches, then?

Almost like your statistic doesn't apply because a GM will ultimately be evaluated on how his TEAM performs regardless of associated races within and will hire the MOST QUALIFIED MAN FOR THE JOB.

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Again, white coaches have more connections in general and white men make up most of the coaching and executive positions in the NFL.

Does it shock me that Rick Smith hired a white guy that he just happened to know from his time with the Broncos to coach the Texans? Not at all.

However, the Rooney Rule allowed for at least one minority coaching candidate to interview with the Texans and gain experience and connections that he didn't have that Gary Kubiak did and was able to leverage into his position.

I'm just going to come down on the side that you're just a flat out racist.

Edit: Also Jerry Reese wasn't even general manager when Tom Coughlin was hired you racist moron.
Are you ****ing kidding me?

Clinging to race crutches instead of equality is the real racism. Bigot.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:31 AM   #43
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No egg on my face, sparky. Black guys are just as entitled to an uninformed perspective as white guys.
This is a fair point, but your statement was that "uninformed perspective" was due to not knowing what it felt like to be a minority.

...but he is a minority.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:33 AM   #44
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No egg on my face, sparky. Black guys are just as entitled to an uninformed perspective as white guys.
I believe the specific statement was that the opinion meant they did not grasp what it is like to be a minority. Essentially claiming that a black guy didn't understand the minority perspective.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:34 AM   #45
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No egg on my face, sparky. Black guys are just as entitled to an uninformed perspective as white guys.
So the black man is uninformed on what it is like to be a minority?

I don't really have a problem if Black people want to date other Black people. They have a similar service for farmers which I think illustrates it is more cultural than racial. However his post was asking what the reaction would be to a whitepeoplemeet.com, suggesting it would be a negative reaction. Collectively there are more minorities in the US than white people and it's continuing to trend that way. Eventually a site like that could exist and the response would be "that's waycist."

The Rooney rule is a stupid one. It is designed to give more interviews to minority candidates, but fails to take into account that these coaching decisions are merit-based and front offices put together their short list of candidates based on the style and system they run - not skin color. So all you get is a "fake" interviews with minority coaches which wastes the time of both.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:35 AM   #46
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I don't think there's any intentional racism going on, but I think there is something to the "hiring who you know" theory. The problem is that there isn't a big enough pool of black assistant coaches in the league to begin with. So, the only obvious black candidates for HC jobs this past offseason were retreads like Lovie Smith and Jim Caldwell. If the league wants more diversity in the head coaching ranks, they need to start by looking at the assistant level. I've read in couple of places the idea of the league starting a program for former minority players who have an interest in coaching. Every team has a number of "quality control" coaches, so players in that program could be placed in such roles as kind of an internship. If they continue to show interest and aptitude, now they have their foot in the door and a better chance of advancing up the ladder. Something like this would work better than forcing teams to conduct a token interview from a limited pool of candidates. The limited pool is the problem.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:36 AM   #47
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Odd that EVERY black general manager hired white coaches, then?

Almost like your statistic doesn't apply because a GM will ultimately be evaluated on how his TEAM performs regardless of associated races within and will hire the MOST QUALIFIED MAN FOR THE JOB.
Oh okay, so you moonlight as an idiot with no understanding of basic statistics. Do you understand what a sample size is?

However, aside from that, what you still don't seem to grasp is that white coaches are more likely to have their names referred to GMs of any race as potential head coaching hires because they have more connections than minority candidates do.

As to your second point, NFL GMs don't always hire the best man for the job, they hire who *they believe to be* the best man for the job. This is clouded by the basic psychological fact that people tend to select for people that are like them, ie white guys choose white guys.

I'm positive that Randy Mueller thought he was hiring the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB in 2006 when he hired Cam Cameron over Mike Tomlin. He clearly didn't hire the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB, the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB was hired by the Pittsburgh Steelers who have an owner that consciously chose to take actions to expose himself and his organization to a diverse pool of candidates.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:39 AM   #48
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I'll reiterate this point one last time because clearly someone like ThirtyDegrees is projecting very personal experiences to this situation and people's comments within it:

If people hire what they associate with, why are black GMs hiring exclusively white coaches?

Could it possibly be--when examined on an individual basis--they hired the guy they felt was best suited for the job without any regard to skin color? Because, quite frankly, THEIR jobs and the well being of their family are on the line? Because it's a decision where ultimately hundreds of millions of dollars are on the line?

Na, couldn't be. They must be Clayton Bigsbys.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:42 AM   #49
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Oh okay, so you moonlight as an idiot with no understanding of basic statistics. Do you understand what a sample size is?

However, aside from that, what you still don't seem to grasp is that white coaches are more likely to have their names referred to GMs of any race as potential head coaching hires because they have more connections than minority candidates do.

As to your second point, NFL GMs don't always hire the best man for the job, they hire who *they believe to be* the best man for the job. This is clouded by the basic psychological fact that people tend to select for people that are like them, ie white guys choose white guys.

I'm positive that Randy Mueller thought he was hiring the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB in 2006 when he hired Cam Cameron over Mike Tomlin. He clearly didn't hire the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB, the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB was hired by the Pittsburgh Steelers who have an owner that consciously chose to take actions to expose himself and his organization to a diverse pool of candidates.


Keep dodging reality.

Here's some stats for you:

100% of black head coaches have been hired by white GMs
0% of black head coaches have been hired by black GMs

You racist.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:53 AM   #50
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I don't think there's any intentional racism going on, but I think there is something to the "hiring who you know" theory. The problem is that there isn't a big enough pool of black assistant coaches in the league to begin with. So, the only obvious black candidates for HC jobs this past offseason were retreads like Lovie Smith and Jim Caldwell. If the league wants more diversity in the head coaching ranks, they need to start by looking at the assistant level. I've read in couple of places the idea of the league starting a program for former minority players who have an interest in coaching. Every team has a number of "quality control" coaches, so players in that program could be placed in such roles as kind of an internship. If they continue to show interest and aptitude, now they have their foot in the door and a better chance of advancing up the ladder. Something like this would work better than forcing teams to conduct a token interview from a limited pool of candidates. The limited pool is the problem.
I fully agree with this, but I think the NFL already does a really good job at it.

Remember the trajectory of Raheem Morris' career? He went from quality control to position coach, skipped coordinating altogether and became a head coach in the blink of an eye. Tampa's GM (a white guy) saw something special in him and took a shot. He ended up being wrong (or maybe just too early), but he took a shot.

Leslie Frazier's career was shot out of a cannon too, etc etc etc

Mike Zimmer with the Bengals has DRAGGED that team to the post season several times in recent years, has been coaching in the NFL for nearly two decades, excelled in every position, and has been a "hot coaching candidate" for several years now... still in Cinci. Must be race related? ...or his vision that he's sharing in interviews isn't up to snuff. I'll bet on the latter.
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