2012-2013 General NHL Hockey Thread

[socalorado]

What sucks is the Ducks had that game won.
Outplayed the Sharks all game, and they let them
back in it.

[RedskinBronco]

Originally Posted by socalorado

What sucks is the Ducks had that game won.
Outplayed the Sharks all game, and they let them
back in it.

Don't worry, when it matters (i.e., the playoffs), the ducks would destroy the sharks.

Sharks game doesn't translate in the playoffs.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by RedskinBronco

This season will be a cluster****.

In all fairness to NYI, they have actually been playing pretty well despite their record. They are a very good offensive team. Having said that, I am sure Bylsma is feeling the heat since there were rumblings last year.

Flyers and Caps are so screwed. It's about damn time Mcphee is fired and honestly Ted is a ****ing bastard too, so **** him. Oates has a good system and they did it so well for 2 periods tonight but then returned to crap hockey. Just not a well constructed team.

Sacco does need to go. Re: stastny, it's become a damn pattern with all these long term contracts. I applaud Montreal for only giving Subban 2 years.

I hope Landeskog gets healthy soon because he is so damn important to the avs. I can feel that guy is going to be a great winner in this league. He is all about winning.

So far, I would say Tampa and Chicago are probably the most impressive. San Jose is doing their normal **** that won't work in the playoffs. I see they still have issues with the Ducks and their big bodies. Same old sharks.

My sleeper pick is Montreal. A Michel Therien coached team with Carey Price in net and a top PP is going to scare a lot of teams. I think they get in and scare some top seeds.

Just like the NHL season, I'm all over the place with my comments tonight

The Isles have quietly assembled a pretty good team, they have Tavares who only plays offensive hockey but does it very well, Grabner, Boyes and Nielsen is about as good a 2nd line as there is in hockey right now, they are all solid on defense, have good speed and I am expecting all 3 of those guy to put up between 30 and 45 points this season with solid +/- ratings. Getting Nabokov to come and play really solidified their major weakness.

I think a large number of coaches and a few GMs are really getting on the hot seat right now - Pittsburgh, Rangers, Flyers, Panthers and Hurricanes all should be better than they are, in the west I think Vancouver will need to improve or Vignault is going to be feeling some heat as well. The Caps needs to pull the plug, switch the entire front office and move on.

Sacco is not a good fit for Colorado, it is a young team and they need a coach who can really bring up the youngsters.

I don't like Montreal, they are doing their best Florida or Toronto imitation, surprising early on but down the stretch they will fade.

[SoCalBronco]

Shero is not on the hot seat....Bylsma is.

[Ray Finkle]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

Shero is not on the hot seat....Bylsma is.

after a few games? Come on....you are overreacting big time.

[24champ]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Them and Chicago are just killin' it.

They'll come back to earth at some point. Things will begin to shake out by the 25th game, the midway point of the season.

All the talk about dumping coaches, players, gm's is a little too early right now.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Them and Chicago are just killin' it.

I was expecting much more from the Sharks. No way they should have won that game. Ducks dominating them throughout the game. I believe at one point it was 19 to 5 Ducks on SOG. St Louis is going to be tough this season in the West. Teams can't fall back to far and still think they have a chance with this schedule.

[RedskinBronco]

Originally Posted by Ray Finkle

after a few games? Come on....you are overreacting big time.

I actually think he is right about Bylsma. Lots of rumblings since last spring. Sometimes you just need a change. Hockey coaches get stale quickly for whatever reason.

Look at therien, SCF one year and canned the next...

[RedskinBronco]

Originally Posted by gyldenlove

The Isles have quietly assembled a pretty good team, they have Tavares who only plays offensive hockey but does it very well, Grabner, Boyes and Nielsen is about as good a 2nd line as there is in hockey right now, they are all solid on defense, have good speed and I am expecting all 3 of those guy to put up between 30 and 45 points this season with solid +/- ratings. Getting Nabokov to come and play really solidified their major weakness.

I think a large number of coaches and a few GMs are really getting on the hot seat right now - Pittsburgh, Rangers, Flyers, Panthers and Hurricanes all should be better than they are, in the west I think Vancouver will need to improve or Vignault is going to be feeling some heat as well. The Caps needs to pull the plug, switch the entire front office and move on.

Sacco is not a good fit for Colorado, it is a young team and they need a coach who can really bring up the youngsters.

I don't like Montreal, they are doing their best Florida or Toronto imitation, surprising early on but down the stretch they will fade.

I agree about the caps, it's about damn time they overhaul that front office that hasn't won anything. Oh wow, a presidents trophy, wow lol.

The reason I think Montreal is scary is because they are very good in key areas: Goaltending, Defense and PP. The thing with the panthers is they won all those ****ing shootouts or got all those loser points. They were the biggest joke of a division winner last year. Toronto is always **** in net, average on defense and never has a top PP really.

but MTL could fold, I just like their makeup and their strengths in key areas. Of course they are going to need Pacioretty back after 3 weeks. They won't last the whole year without his scoring or acquiring another 30 goal type guy.

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by RedskinBronco

I actually think he is right about Bylsma. Lots of rumblings since last spring. Sometimes you just need a change. Hockey coaches get stale quickly for whatever reason.

Look at therien, SCF one year and canned the next...

Yep...he was fired mid season because he got tuned out and we were right on the edge of missing the postseason.

[Ray Finkle]

Originally Posted by RedskinBronco

I actually think he is right about Bylsma. Lots of rumblings since last spring. Sometimes you just need a change. Hockey coaches get stale quickly for whatever reason.

Look at therien, SCF one year and canned the next...

Therein has always been a suck ass coach.....

[RedskinBronco]

Originally Posted by Ray Finkle

Therein has always been a suck ass coach.....

I don't know, I see him as really good for the fundamentals. To me, he is like a Glen Hanlon but with more success. I feel like the caps learned a lot from Hanlon and then Boudreau came in and let them fly basically.

Same thing with Therien/Bylsma IMO.

edit: speaking of coaches, my top 5 (in no particular order)

Laviolette, Tortorella, Tippett, Trotz, Babcock

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by Ray Finkle

Therein has always been a suck ass coach.....

He is a good defensive coach. Loves 1-2-2 trap. But he is also strict and tough in practice...people will tune him out after awhile.

[RedskinBronco]

Edmonton is going to be a SCARY team if they play this right. They got a lot of the pieces in place.

They can thank their pittsburgh like fortunes in "winning" the draft lottery 3 straight years.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by RedskinBronco

I don't know, I see him as really good for the fundamentals. To me, he is like a Glen Hanlon but with more success. I feel like the caps learned a lot from Hanlon and then Boudreau came in and let them fly basically.

Same thing with Therien/Bylsma IMO.

edit: speaking of coaches, my top 5 (in no particular order)

Laviolette, Tortorella, Tippett, Trotz, Babcock

It is difficult to evaluate coaches long term, the metagame changes over time which means certain styles will be more or less effective. I think the current metagame is really heavily focused on skill and puck possession which allows hyper defensive strategies relying heavily on speed and transition for offense can stand out. In a different metagame with more physical play a hyper defensive style wouldn't be nearly as effective and in a metagame focused heavily on dump and chase or trap a more flowing offensive style can really shine.

After they banned the trap by taking away all the hooking and holding in the neutral zone, we saw a team like Anaheim come up and succeed with an extremely physical and aggressive style with big players. That became the metagame, teams tried to adapt to that style and that allowed the puckmoving teams like Detroit and Pittsburgh to stand out since smaller puckmovers got cheaper to sign. Puckpossession has now become the name of the game and size and physicality has taken a backseat, this allows teams like St Louis to play a defensive style to gum up the middle, keep shots to the outside and rely on quick transitions to generate open scoring chances. I expect to see more teams move to that style and implement dump and chase as the main offensive strategy again within the next 3-5 years.

[RedskinBronco]

Originally Posted by gyldenlove

It is difficult to evaluate coaches long term, the metagame changes over time which means certain styles will be more or less effective. I think the current metagame is really heavily focused on skill and puck possession which allows hyper defensive strategies relying heavily on speed and transition for offense can stand out. In a different metagame with more physical play a hyper defensive style wouldn't be nearly as effective and in a metagame focused heavily on dump and chase or trap a more flowing offensive style can really shine.

After they banned the trap by taking away all the hooking and holding in the neutral zone, we saw a team like Anaheim come up and succeed with an extremely physical and aggressive style with big players. That became the metagame, teams tried to adapt to that style and that allowed the puckmoving teams like Detroit and Pittsburgh to stand out since smaller puckmovers got cheaper to sign. Puckpossession has now become the name of the game and size and physicality has taken a backseat, this allows teams like St Louis to play a defensive style to gum up the middle, keep shots to the outside and rely on quick transitions to generate open scoring chances. I expect to see more teams move to that style and implement dump and chase as the main offensive strategy again within the next 3-5 years.

You make good points, I just think certain guys are good at teaching the fundamentals. They may get tuned out but they are good stepping stones so to speak.

I look at Therien as someone in this group. I feel like a young Ron Wilson was part of this group before he got an inflated ego and now no one really sees him as a candidate. Paul Maurice is also one I think of in this sense although his time with the leafs was a disaster.

[maher_tyler]

Originally Posted by 24champ

They'll come back to earth at some point. Things will begin to shake out by the 25th game, the midway point of the season.

All the talk about dumping coaches, players, gm's is a little too early right now.

3rd game in a row the Avs have struggled to score goals! It's the same BS every year! Sacco has no business coaching an NHL team, none! Power play sucks, penalty kill sucks. Take all sorts of penalties. Rely on garbage goals. It's pathetic. I would compare this Avs team to the Broncos lead Orton team.

[maher_tyler]

Can't even score on a 5 on 3!

[24champ]

Ooof


Adrian Dater @adater
We'd all be Mormons by now if we had a drinking game for every time the Avs score.

[maher_tyler]

Originally Posted by 24champ

Ooof


Adrian Dater @adater
We'd all be Mormons by now if we had a drinking game for every time the Avs score.

At least someone is taking notice. 1 goal in 3 games and that goal was a disgusting goal!

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by RedskinBronco

You make good points, I just think certain guys are good at teaching the fundamentals. They may get tuned out but they are good stepping stones so to speak.

I look at Therien as someone in this group. I feel like a young Ron Wilson was part of this group before he got an inflated ego and now no one really sees him as a candidate. Paul Maurice is also one I think of in this sense although his time with the leafs was a disaster.

I agree, some coaches are very good with fundamentals, I think Ken Hitchcock is one of those guys. He goes to a new team, gets really hard on fundamentals and a simplified system which works for a while, but he lacks the ability to keep his system progressing so after a few years the message goes stale, the players tune him out and he has no answer. Therrien is definitely in that group as well.

Paul Maurice is a guy I feel is really overrated. He got super lucky that one year in Carolina going to the finals, but he is not a very good coach. He has been an NHL head coach for part of 14 seasons, been to the playoffs 5 times and had losing records 9 times. Maurice is too much of a players coach, he is soft on his players and doesn't have a system that is strong enough to overcome soft play.

[DivineLegion]

Originally Posted by gyldenlove

I agree, some coaches are very good with fundamentals, I think Ken Hitchcock is one of those guys. He goes to a new team, gets really hard on fundamentals and a simplified system which works for a while, but he lacks the ability to keep his system progressing so after a few years the message goes stale, the players tune him out and he has no answer. Therrien is definitely in that group as well.

Paul Maurice is a guy I feel is really overrated. He got super lucky that one year in Carolina going to the finals, but he is not a very good coach. He has been an NHL head coach for part of 14 seasons, been to the playoffs 5 times and had losing records 9 times. Maurice is too much of a players coach, he is soft on his players and doesn't have a system that is strong enough to overcome soft play.

Maurice is a very unimaganitive coach, however I couldn't help but laugh when you called out Mo, and two posts prior you were talking about the dump and chase being in vogue. The dump and chase was the catalyst for Mos unimaganitive style, it was basic, and it got him fired.

BTW Mo went to the Eastern conference finals with the canes in 08-09, so I don't know if it was all luck. Basic works sometimes, well...until your team fails to execute, and you have a player like Chad LaRose on your second line.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by DivineLegion

Maurice is a very unimaganitive coach, however I couldn't help but laugh when you called out Mo, and two posts prior you were talking about the dump and chase being in vogue. The dump and chase was the catalyst for Mos unimaganitive style, it was basic, and it got him fired.

BTW Mo went to the Eastern conference finals with the canes in 08-09, so I don't know if it was all luck. Basic works sometimes, well...until your team fails to execute, and you have a player like Chad LaRose on your second line.

I believe the dump and chase can work if you have sufficiently good defensive basics. The Canes basically rode Arturs Irbe until the wheels came off - he had insane numbers that year, not the first time a super hot goalie takes a bad team to the big show - just look at Martin Brodeur.

Maurice is far from the only coach and very far from the best coach who uses dump and chase. Basics do work, especially when the league as a whole is moving towards complex systems relying on smaller players and puck possession.

[Rascal]

It's only 6 games and I think I've already watched enough Av's to have my fill. They are awful. Something needs to be done.

[bronco militia]

Originally Posted by Rascal

It's only 6 games and I think I've already watched enough Av's to have my fill. They are awful. Something needs to be done.

yeah..I'm seeing the same thing as last year. A team that barely has any business on NHL ice.