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Old 01-28-2013, 10:59 AM   #151
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I agree with this!
2 weeks ago, I was all about Rhodes. Then last week I started watching more Poyer tape, and then his performance at the Senior Bowl was good. So I'm leaning more towards Poyer now. But I would also be happy with Rhodes as well. Rhodes is probably a better overall athlete and will run a faster 40 time.
But yeah I doubt any of the top guys will be there at our 2nd rd pick no matter how deep this draft is for CB.
The thing is do we draft BPA in the first or do we draft a Potential #1 CB? I am not down with drafting a first round CB in this draft at all at this point (that may change, but I doubt it!). Will an Elite Level CB drop to the bottom of the second round, No. However, I am not opposed to drafting a #2 CB in the second round and there are a dirtload of these guys in this draft. I like Rhodes a lot, he is a much more polished Cromartie coming out without the elite deep speed. What he is better at is his mental discipline which Cromartie has ALWAYS struggled, even to this day.

If Rhodes or Poyer are BPA at 28, which I believe is not going to happen, I might see them pulling the trigger. I am just not seeing that NOW! I am only through half the CB's I want to see, and I have 9-10 that I really think can play in the NFL. Usually, I only have 4-5 at most this early.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:03 AM   #152
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I agree with this!
2 weeks ago, I was all about Rhodes. Then last week I started watching more Poyer tape, and then his performance at the Senior Bowl was good. So I'm leaning more towards Poyer now. But I would also be happy with Rhodes as well. Rhodes is probably a better overall athlete and will run a faster 40 time.
But yeah I doubt any of the top guys will be there at our 2nd rd pick no matter how deep this draft is for CB.
I'm partial to Rhodes just because I'm a Nole diehard and have seen him play a bunch. The games I saw of Poyer I was pretty impressed. He is definitely a good player. IMHO, Rhodes and Poyer both play faster than they will time. I would estimate ~ 4.45 range for both of them as of right now.

Right now, I'd project this to happen:

Demarcus Milliner goes in the Top 10. Jonathan Banks goes in the Top 25.

Xavier Rhodes, Jordan Poyer, David Amerson and Logan Ryan in my eyes could all go in the Top 50 and all likelihood probably will. There is a lot to like about some of their games and where they are slotted individually will greatly depend on how they fit into team schemes. Some of those guys can play press man and man coverage well, some of them are more zone oriented.

I think Desmond Trufant really helped himself this week in the Senior Bowl and should have impressed quite a few teams. I haven't seen much of Will Davis, Leon McFadden or Robert Alford -- but those guys are all playing for not so-big name programs but seem to be highly rated across the board. Last year there were 5-6 corners taken before where we will be selecting in the second round this year and it was a weaker corner class, IMHO.

There are a lot of guys who can play. I think with the pass happy NFL, these guys are going to fly off the boards. Is CB the position for BPA @ 28? Don't know. We will have to wait until we are OTC in April to decide that. There are few players I would hypothesize this early in the process that would be available at our first round pick that would be better than Rhodes. Then again, Med does bring up a point. Is Denver really in a position to use a first-rounder on a CB?

Maybe, maybe not. I can see Med's point tho -- get that BPA, impact player @ #28 and hope that with a deep CB draft, you can get that #2 with our second round choice.

Thanks for the discussion guys. ME SO HAPPY.

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Old 01-28-2013, 11:30 AM   #153
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The question I have, is why haven't we interviewed any MLB during the senior bowl? As I said I think interviewing Gooden, means one of the OLBs will be moving to MLB, be that Irving or Trevethan. And we will draft a guy to compete either middle of the draft or sign one in free agency (hopefully not Brooking). We also interviewed 2 safeties a FS and SS. I could really envision a draft where we take both Thomas and Cyprien to compete with Moore, Adams, Carter.. We looked at a project CB, as a late round pick to groom, because the FO doesn't view it as a big time need, like us arm chairs think it is..

I also don't think interior OLine depth is a pressing need, similar to DT of last year, how we all swore we would take a DT...
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:47 AM   #154
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just because we interviewed somebody or didn't interivew them doesn't mean they are or are not on our draft list.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:00 PM   #155
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The question I have, is why haven't we interviewed any MLB during the senior bowl? As I said I think interviewing Gooden, means one of the OLBs will be moving to MLB, be that Irving or Trevethan. And we will draft a guy to compete either middle of the draft or sign one in free agency (hopefully not Brooking). We also interviewed 2 safeties a FS and SS. I could really envision a draft where we take both Thomas and Cyprien to compete with Moore, Adams, Carter.. We looked at a project CB, as a late round pick to groom, because the FO doesn't view it as a big time need, like us arm chairs think it is..

I also don't think interior OLine depth is a pressing need, similar to DT of last year, how we all swore we would take a DT...
And they used their first pick on one. I think the Del Rio influence will alter what we do. MLBs for the 4-3 are becoming rarer and rarer it seems while the OLB/DE hybrids multiply. There are a few good MLBs in this draft. If Del Rio has a voice in the selection (and I think he had some voice in the Wolfe selection), I look for one of them in the first couple of picks. This is what he said way back in August, "We're going to play the guys who are the most dependable, the toughest and the most disciplined front." He wants to put his stamp on this D. I don't think DJ will fit that. Trevathan seems to. As does Woodyard. He wants tough, playmaker mentality LBs. I feel strongly that Del Rio will want a guy like Chase Thomas. We'll see.

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Old 01-28-2013, 12:07 PM   #156
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The question I have, is why haven't we interviewed any MLB during the senior bowl? As I said I think interviewing Gooden, means one of the OLBs will be moving to MLB, be that Irving or Trevethan. And we will draft a guy to compete either middle of the draft or sign one in free agency (hopefully not Brooking). We also interviewed 2 safeties a FS and SS. I could really envision a draft where we take both Thomas and Cyprien to compete with Moore, Adams, Carter.. We looked at a project CB, as a late round pick to groom, because the FO doesn't view it as a big time need, like us arm chairs think it is..

I also don't think interior OLine depth is a pressing need, similar to DT of last year, how we all swore we would take a DT...
The senior bowl interviews complement the Combine Interviews. Teams can only interview so many people at each event by NFL rule. At the combine teams get 30 interviews and most teams combine their interviews with another team in the opposite conference they are not competing directly against; so they get 60 formal 15 minute interviews.

What that tells you potentially is that the MLB's they may be looking at are underclassmen and not at the senior bowl this week. Or, as rascal so aptly pointed out, they are playing their cards close to the vest about who they like and not wanting to show their hand to other teams. Or, they simply are going to address MLB in FA or a trade. No one knows for sure, but those are the logical reasons why or why not.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:12 PM   #157
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Remember when Shanahan traded up for Cutler and first thing out of the Frown Cannon's mouth was, "The Broncos never talked to me?"
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:51 PM   #158
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I have to agree, there will be some talented corners available in the second/third round of the draft..

I have to say, I would not be surprised to see us grab two new safeties in the draft. We interviewed Thomas who projects as a FS, and Cyprien who projects as a SS. They are roughly 2 and 3-4 round values respectively. We interviewed Gooden the OLB, so that means maybe we have plans of taking an OLB because Irvin or Trevethan is going to transition to MLB, or we will grab one in free agency.

I think DT has solid depth, I like Williams.. But if we take one in the first and Short is gone, I really like what Jenkins of Georgia brings to the table in terms of being a disruptive POWERFUL NT.
Jenkins scares me big time. I watch to many times this past season when he let smaller linemen get under his hands and cut block him to the ground. Big guy with crappy techinque that plays high.

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Old 01-28-2013, 02:27 PM   #159
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I'm partial to Rhodes just because I'm a Nole diehard and have seen him play a bunch. The games I saw of Poyer I was pretty impressed. He is definitely a good player. IMHO, Rhodes and Poyer both play faster than they will time. I would estimate ~ 4.45 range for both of them as of right now.

Right now, I'd project this to happen:

Demarcus Milliner goes in the Top 10. Jonathan Banks goes in the Top 25.

Xavier Rhodes, Jordan Poyer, David Amerson and Logan Ryan in my eyes could all go in the Top 50 and all likelihood probably will. There is a lot to like about some of their games and where they are slotted individually will greatly depend on how they fit into team schemes. Some of those guys can play press man and man coverage well, some of them are more zone oriented.

I think Desmond Trufant really helped himself this week in the Senior Bowl and should have impressed quite a few teams. I haven't seen much of Will Davis, Leon McFadden or Robert Alford -- but those guys are all playing for not so-big name programs but seem to be highly rated across the board. Last year there were 5-6 corners taken before where we will be selecting in the second round this year and it was a weaker corner class, IMHO.

There are a lot of guys who can play. I think with the pass happy NFL, these guys are going to fly off the boards. Is CB the position for BPA @ 28? Don't know. We will have to wait until we are OTC in April to decide that. There are few players I would hypothesize this early in the process that would be available at our first round pick that would be better than Rhodes. Then again, Med does bring up a point. Is Denver really in a position to use a first-rounder on a CB?

Maybe, maybe not. I can see Med's point tho -- get that BPA, impact player @ #28 and hope that with a deep CB draft, you can get that #2 with our second round choice.

Thanks for the discussion guys. ME SO HAPPY.
This is a very intruiging discussion. Just last week I was also saying that we don't need to draft a CB in the 1st round. I was all on the MLB train, and pushing for Kevin Minter. After watching more tape and watching the senior bowl, my mind has changed...

But yet, I have to also agree with Mediator12 and say that I also am ALWAYS for drafting BPA at your position. Unless you have that position locked up for a while.

So I guess it is more of my selfish thinking... we need to strengthen this secondary IMO. Champ has lost a step (though I think he has a year or two left at CB). Our safeties got worked against the Ravens as well.
Maybe I'm thinking about that last game too much, but I just can't help but notice that this could very quickly become a glaring need for our team.

In a passing league, I think it's more important to get high caliber CB's and Safeties as opposed to getting high caliber DT's and MLB's. Is it nice to have great DT's and MLB's? Absolutely, but it would be more ideal to have some game changing CB's and Safeties.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:51 PM   #160
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Jenkins scares me big time. I watch to many times this past season when he let smaller linemen get under his hands and cut block him to the ground. Big guy with crappy techinque that plays high.
Hmmm. I have not had time to see more of Jenkins on game tape. Was he getting Cut or Doubled?
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:20 PM   #161
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Hmmm. I have not had time to see more of Jenkins on game tape. Was he getting Cut or Doubled?
Cut. It happened against Alabama and USC. I'm no expert and won't pretend to be, but when I think you are playing to high then you have problem.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:29 PM   #162
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Cut. It happened against Alabama and USC. I'm no expert and won't pretend to be, but when I think you are playing to high then you have problem.
He looked good getting low in the limbo stick drill and the sand bag looking drill. To me he didn't seem to have that much of a problem getting low to me. Maybe I need to rewatch the drills again.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:03 PM   #163
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He looked good getting low in the limbo stick drill and the sand bag looking drill. To me he didn't seem to have that much of a problem getting low to me. Maybe I need to rewatch the drills again.
And he manhandled the OLinemem in 1 on 1 drills..
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:05 PM   #164
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He looked good getting low in the limbo stick drill and the sand bag looking drill. To me he didn't seem to have that much of a problem getting low to me. Maybe I need to rewatch the drills again.
Like I said, I am no expert but it appeared that later in the games the more "lazy" he got and failed to stay low.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:17 PM   #165
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just because we interviewed somebody or didn't interivew them doesn't mean they are or are not on our draft list.
That's possible, I see the writing on the wall.. A project player like Gooden is DJs replacement on the roster, and I figured Irving would move back inside. Again, just my opinion, but I don't think we address MLB as early as some might think. I think the emphasis is on safeties and potentially two of them, and I think what we are keeping close to the chest is our first round pick.. Could be a MLB, maybe a DT.. I just see who they have talked to and the rounds projected as your second through fifth round players..
2. Thomas FS
3. Cyprien SS
4. Gooden OLB
5. Bumphis/Swoope SWR

That doesn't mean we will get who we are talking to, but we are exploring the options of Safeties, OLB who would take Irving's outside spot/ DJs, and a slot WR.. We value youth, speed, and coverage.. I think MLB is not as pressing as many think.. They could like Irving, Johnson, Trevethan, or a dark horse in the draft. But because of our sub packages, I don't think it's the pressing need we all view it as. And I could be wrong...

Just like so many view Guard as a need. I don't.. Ramirez showed good improvement and can be our swing guard. Koppen back up center, and Blake has experience on the interior and even RT? I actually view Tackle depth as more of a need..
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:21 PM   #166
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Wolfe is a DT? I think he's a key ingredient as a DE in our scheme. I would argue he's the peanut butter to Von's Jelly. Just like Justin Smith is the shake to Aldon Smiths bake..
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:28 PM   #167
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Like I said, I am no expert but it appeared that later in the games the more "lazy" he got and failed to stay low.
Well that very well could be the case. Maylock said he had issues like that when talking about him at the senior bowl. He also thinks once football becomes his job he won't wear down as much later in the games.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:53 PM   #168
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Jenkins may slip to us. There has been a lot of talk from random scout quotes saying that Jenkins is going to get medically downgraded because he has issues with being overweight which has led to some back/knee questions that are supposed to be given a closer look in Indy. I'll try and find the article(s). Good two-gap fit tho.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:18 PM   #169
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Wolfe is a DT? I think he's a key ingredient as a DE in our scheme. I would argue he's the peanut butter to Von's Jelly. Just like Justin Smith is the shake to Aldon Smiths bake..
Shake and Bake:

Cal Naughton, Jr.: Shake and bake!

Ricky Bobby: What does that do? Does that blow your mind? That just happened!

Jean Girard: Is that a catchphrase or epilepsy?


I love that movie!
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:59 PM   #170
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Shake and Bake:

Cal Naughton, Jr.: Shake and bake!

Ricky Bobby: What does that do? Does that blow your mind? That just happened!

Jean Girard: Is that a catchphrase or epilepsy?


I love that movie!
Next thing we know, you will be proclaiming your love of natty boh
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:13 PM   #171
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Cut. It happened against Alabama and USC. I'm no expert and won't pretend to be, but when I think you are playing to high then you have problem.
Getting cut block is a quickness and effort issue, things I have not seen from him on film yet. I'll make sure I watch for that when I get to DL!
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:59 AM   #172
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And he manhandled the OLinemem in 1 on 1 drills..
You can not cut block in those drills though Maybe the OC's figured out HOW to block him in college. Dude Certainly is not going to get up after getting cut and make a play.

As I said earlier, good DL can avoid getting cut block with solid technique and effort. That can be easily corrected. Playing high though, is a lack of fitness and discipline. Going to have to watch for that when I get there.

I am still on DB's and a ton of these guys are good, but a bunch need to be a FS at the next level. Way too many tall, 4.5+, stiff hipped CB's on the back end of the draft. The small school guys are getting scouted way better like Alford and BW Webb and getting put higher initially.

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Old 01-29-2013, 07:34 AM   #173
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You can not cut block in those drills though Maybe the OC's figured out HOW to block him in college. Dude Certainly is not going to get up after getting cut and make a play.

As I said earlier, good DL can avoid getting cut block with solid technique and effort. TAHt can be easily corrected. Playing high though, is a lack of fitness and discipline. Going to have to watch for that when I get there.

I am still on DB's and a ton of these guys are good, but a bunch need to be a FS at the next level. Way too many tall, 4.5+, stiff hipped CB's on the back end of the draft. The small school guys are getting scouted way better like Alford and BW Webb and getting put higher initially.
I like Brandon Williams, I have been beating that drum for quiet some time. I don't think he's a first round pick, especially with some of the bigger school guys getting majority of the recognition. But.. some of the safeties we are looking at are in that same 2-3 round range.

Jenkins is deff not getting up and making a play, but I think he can refine his technique and work on leverage. I would assume we stay in our two gap scheme, so I would like a disruptive two gap player. Jenkins could fit that mold, Short could fit in, though he may be better in a traditional 4-3.. Williams is by far my favorite, he's a combo of those two players.. But why take him in the first if he's there in the second? I'm curious if we do take 2 safeties in the draft or if we envision Thomas as a FS..? Where do you think Thomas is a better fit?

Also can you shed some light on Will Davis for me.. CB Utah State.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:03 AM   #174
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I like Brandon Williams, I have been beating that drum for quiet some time. I don't think he's a first round pick, especially with some of the bigger school guys getting majority of the recognition. But.. some of the safeties we are looking at are in that same 2-3 round range.

Jenkins is deff not getting up and making a play, but I think he can refine his technique and work on leverage. I would assume we stay in our two gap scheme, so I would like a disruptive two gap player. Jenkins could fit that mold, Short could fit in, though he may be better in a traditional 4-3.. Williams is by far my favorite, he's a combo of those two players.. But why take him in the first if he's there in the second? I'm curious if we do take 2 safeties in the draft or if we envision Thomas as a FS..? Where do you think Thomas is a better fit?

Also can you shed some light on Will Davis for me.. CB Utah State.
I know you like Brandon Williams, you have been beating that drum for awhile

Thomas, are you talking about Philip thomas? If you can, please include whole names at this point of the draft just way too many new names floating around, and I work with new clients every week or so.

As for Will Davis, I only have a little tape on him and the Senior Bowl practices. Do not have a grade for him yet, but the first impression is a highly talented small school guy who is raw as Sushi and struggled mightily against top level competition in Mobile last week. His tape looked a lot more solid, but its not the games I want to see. The only game I have is the bowl game versus Toledo. I want the WIS, UTAH, and BYU tape to see before final judgement.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:16 AM   #175
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I know you like Brandon Williams, you have been beating that drum for awhile

Thomas, are you talking about Philip thomas? If you can, please include whole names at this point of the draft just way too many new names floating around, and I work with new clients every week or so.

As for Will Davis, I only have a little tape on him and the Senior Bowl practices. Do not have a grade for him yet, but the first impression is a highly talented small school guy who is raw as Sushi and struggled mightily against top level competition in Mobile last week. His tape looked a lot more solid, but its not the games I want to see. The only game I have is the bowl game versus Toledo. I want the WIS, UTAH, and BYU tape to see before final judgement.
Yes Phillip Thomas of Fresno State.

I think we will take a project CB in the draft, someone like a Will Davis. Again as much as we would like a top flight CB, I don't think it's as pressing as both safety positions..
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