Clady.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Ah who tried to lowball champ.

Iirc it was a different regime.

Do you feel that Clady is a elite?

With his deficiency in run blocking.

Struggling with speed rushers.

I Always thought that just not giving up sack was just part of being a complete (read elite) OT. But hey that is just IMO.

I think when you down play Clady's run blocking your forgetting that Beadles is an above avg pulling guard. They run Right because their LG is pulling right. I remember watching them use Hillman in a game, maybe the last kFc game where Clady sealed the edge and Hillman got wide for a big gainer, Clady had no help on the play, he can do it and do it well.

It will be interesting to see what Gase does because McCoy was content with picking up 3-4 yards on 1st down with the back running behind a pulling Beadles. Willis is a little better than KM being patient with his blocks and following his lead blocker into the hole. The game he got hurt on he was on pace for a 150+ yard day just with simple power between the tackles.

I wonder if Gase doesn't try running more counters or the ISO pitch with Hillman after he has an offseason to grow into his body and gain a little more weight and muscle.

If you want to upgrade the run blocking we need a better C who can get to the 2nd level.

I really think Beadles is more valuable to the run game pulling which is why they run to the right so often. I don't think it is because Clady sucks as a run blocker.

If your going to grade a guy on his run blocking you have to take into account Beadles pulling the majority of the time and Clady having to man the hole Beadles leaves. If anything I would say they trust Clady more in the Blocking game because Beadles is pulling and leaving his man unblocked.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

I think when you down play Clady's run blocking your forgetting that Beadles is an above avg pulling guard. They run Right because their LG is pulling right. I remember watching them use Hillman in a game, maybe the last kFc game where Clady sealed the edge and Hillman got wide for a big gainer, Clady had no help on the play, he can do it and do it well.

It will be interesting to see what Gase does because McCoy was content with picking up 3-4 yards on 1st down with the back running behind a pulling Beadles. Willis is a little better than KM being patient with his blocks and following his lead blocker into the hole. The game he got hurt on he was on pace for a 150+ yard day just with simple power between the tackles.

I wonder if Gase doesn't try running more counters or the ISO pitch with Hillman after he has an offseason to grow into his body and gain a little more weight and muscle.

If you want to upgrade the run blocking we need a better C who can get to the 2nd level.

I really think Beadles is more valuable to the run game pulling which is why they run to the right so often. I don't think it is because Clady sucks as a run blocker.

If your going to grade a guy on his run blocking you have to take into account Beadles pulling the majority of the time and Clady having to man the hole Beadles leaves. If anything I would say they trust Clady more in the Blocking game because Beadles is pulling and leaving his man unblocked.

Fwiw i did not just base my thoughts on Clady for his run blocking this year.
It has never been his forte.

Now have they run left in the past and they did well absolutely but his lack of consistently being able to do so along with Franklin being a road grader makes it easier to go that way..

BTW pulling and going right can be just as easy to go to the left.

They chose to go left for other reasons.

As for the center yes we need to get some more heft on Walton this coming year he was making great strides until he was hurt. I think this injury may be a blessing as he is able to spend loads of time in the weight room..

Now that said he will never be Pouncey. But that is ok also.

My biggest concern is will Kuper ever be back to his former self. Or are those ankles and lower legs damaged beyond being a NFL OG again.

I do know they had no reason to bring him back when he was obviously not ready and should have been pulled when they saw he was unable to handle the job during the game.

[jutang]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

You didn't watch the line play in the Balt game. Manning took deep drops and was forced to hold the ball for a long time because his WR's were covered. As it was our OL gave up a couple sacks (including a Strip Sack) late with the game on the line.

To think that anyone could go back there and hold up as long as Clady did is insane, you must be watching the ball and not the players.

Still too pissed off to watch the game again and I'm not doubting Clady's status as an elite tackle, but if you can switch out Clady for say a Lepsis quality tackle and upgrade another position like TE, RB, S, or MLB... the team may overall be stronger. Baltimore is a classic example this year. The Giants last year's LT, Diehl, I think changed positions this year. I'm just questioning the value of an elite LT in today's NFL.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

I think when you down play Clady's run blocking your forgetting that Beadles is an above avg pulling guard. They run Right because their LG is pulling right. I remember watching them use Hillman in a game, maybe the last kFc game where Clady sealed the edge and Hillman got wide for a big gainer, Clady had no help on the play, he can do it and do it well.

It will be interesting to see what Gase does because McCoy was content with picking up 3-4 yards on 1st down with the back running behind a pulling Beadles. Willis is a little better than KM being patient with his blocks and following his lead blocker into the hole. The game he got hurt on he was on pace for a 150+ yard day just with simple power between the tackles.

I wonder if Gase doesn't try running more counters or the ISO pitch with Hillman after he has an offseason to grow into his body and gain a little more weight and muscle.

If you want to upgrade the run blocking we need a better C who can get to the 2nd level.

I really think Beadles is more valuable to the run game pulling which is why they run to the right so often. I don't think it is because Clady sucks as a run blocker.

If your going to grade a guy on his run blocking you have to take into account Beadles pulling the majority of the time and Clady having to man the hole Beadles leaves. If anything I would say they trust Clady more in the Blocking game because Beadles is pulling and leaving his man unblocked.

Fwiw i did not just base my thoughts on Clady for his run blocking this year.
It has never been his forte.

Now have they run left in the past and they did well absolutely but his lack of consistently being able to do so along with Franklin being a road grader makes it easier to go that way..

BTW pulling and going right can be just as easy to go to the left.

They chose to go left for other reasons.

As for the center yes we need to get some more heft on Walton this coming year he was making great strides until he was hurt. I think this injury may be a blessing as he is able to spend loads of time in the weight room..

Now that said he will never be Pouncey. But that is ok also.

My biggest concern is will Kuper ever be back to his former self. Or are those ankles and lower legs damaged beyond being a NFL OG again.

I do know they had no reason to bring him back when he was obviously not ready and should have been pulled when they saw he was unable to handle the job during the game.

[Missouribronc]

It just amazes me that people complain about the best offensive lineman the team has.

It shouldn't surprise me. But it does.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Missouribronc

It just amazes me that people complain about the best offensive lineman the team has.

It shouldn't surprise me. But it does.

Just because he is the best does not mean he can not be improved on or have the same quality for less money.

Amazes me that folks do not see that.

[Missouribronc]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Just because he is the best does not mean he can not be improved on or have the same quality for less money.

Amazes me that folks do not see that.

He's one of the two best tackles in the NFL.

Explain how Clady could be "improved on?"

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Missouribronc

He's one of the two best tackles in the NFL.

Explain how Clady could be "improved on?"

Now your just talking crap.. His run blocking leaves a lot to be desired and speed rushers well force our QBs out or up into the pocket more than they should.

But you and dream keep having oragams about him. It ok to have a a circle jerk about him.

IF HE WAS THE SAME GUY HE WAS BEFORE HIS KNEE injury then we could talk about being 1 or 2.

[Missouribronc]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Now your just talking crap.. His run blocking leaves a lot to be desired and speed rushers well force our QBs out or up into the pocket more than they should.

But you and dream keep having oragams about him. It ok to have a a circle jerk about him.

IF HE WAS THE SAME GUY HE WAS BEFORE HIS KNEE injury then we could talk about being 1 or 2.

Two tackles in the entire league are named First Team All-Pro.

One was Clady.

So...crap? Please explain.

[Missouribronc]

Come on lonestar, explain how Clady could be named one of the best two tackles in the league.

I'm waiting.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Missouribronc

Two tackles in the entire league are named First Team All-Pro.

One was Clady.

So...crap? Please explain.

All the facts in the world will ever stop him from trolling the board man.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Fwiw i did not just base my thoughts on Clady for his run blocking this year.
It has never been his forte.

Now have they run left in the past and they did well absolutely but his lack of consistently being able to do so along with Franklin being a road grader makes it easier to go that way..

BTW pulling and going right can be just as easy to go to the left.

They chose to go left for other reasons.

As for the center yes we need to get some more heft on Walton this coming year he was making great strides until he was hurt. I think this injury may be a blessing as he is able to spend loads of time in the weight room..

Now that said he will never be Pouncey. But that is ok also.

My biggest concern is will Kuper ever be back to his former self. Or are those ankles and lower legs damaged beyond being a NFL OG again.

I do know they had no reason to bring him back when he was obviously not ready and should have been pulled when they saw he was unable to handle the job during the game.

My point, which you obviously failed to comprehend, was that Beadles (who plays LEFT Guard) is the best pulling guard on the team. He even made it to the Pro Bowl today.

My point was the reason they ran right the majority of the time is because Beadles excels at pulling which means he crosses behind the Center (who is in the middle of the formation and is responsible for snapping the ball) and creates a hole/seam/kickout/seal block for the runner on the RIGHT side of the formation.

If they were going to pull a G to the right then Kuper would pull, he does, they do pull Kuper but this is something Beadles has excelled at and with Clady being able to make good choices covering for Beadles pull on the back side the staff feels more comfortable pulling to the right.

You do realize that when Beadles pulls his guy is unblocked and Clady has more to do than just man up on his guy right? If there seems to be a lot of penetration from the left side when Beadles is pulling it is because there is, the pull creates an unballanced line effect putting more guys on one side and attempting to get blockers to the 2nd level. The thinking is having a quick G leading is better than a FB because of the size matchups and having more blockers than defenders on one side of the field.

Shanny's system used to get more people on one side in the Zone because they would cut the back side defenders getting them on the ground with the tackles and enabling the guards and center to get to the 2nd level because the backside guy(s) were on the ground.

JUTANG:
This is why guys like Lepsis were able to be effective because they needed to be quicker and more agile and didn't need strength to get their guy out of the play, just technique. Shanny developed Lepsis over a couple years moving him from a TE to T, he was not a day 1 NFL tackle. The reason guys like Meyers and Polumbus are still in the NFL is because of the system they are in. They would struggle in a power run system.

Everyone loves the zone scheme between the 20's because there is space for the RB to cut back. As drives get closer to the goal line the cut back lanes get clogged with safeties and LB's who don't have to cover 10-20 or more yards deeper and are closer to the LOS. This is why people b****ed about Shanny's red zone production after we lost a RB like TD who and exceptional vision, quickness and ability to cut.

You can't just let a top 5 LT walk and expect to run a power run game and protect Manning long enough for him to get the ball down field. If your advocating changing back to a west coast short passing game or quick dink and dunk game with a sub par run support then fine. I like our system now, I like that Manning is thinking deep 1st then down only when he has to. It is not like Manning has the speed to pull the ball down if the 1st option isn't there.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Now your just talking crap.. His run blocking leaves a lot to be desired and speed rushers well force our QBs out or up into the pocket more than they should.

But you and dream keep having oragams about him. It ok to have a a circle jerk about him.

IF HE WAS THE SAME GUY HE WAS BEFORE HIS KNEE injury then we could talk about being 1 or 2.

You realize that QB's should be stepping up into the pocket on their throws right? A good pocket will allow a QB to step up into the pocket. If your getting penetrating from the inside then the QB has to back up which causes him to throw off his back foot with no power, look at Cutler or Plummer for example.

If you watched the Balt game the strip sack came from the right side. Clady had his guy blocked and held up the block for the longest of any of the OL on that play. The other times there was pressure in that game it came from the right. I don't think Kuper was 100%, he did not have the best game of his career but Clady played a solid game.

You should actually go back and rewatch the games Clady played when he had NFL Caliber QB's. I think last year was a mix of injury and the fact that they could not set the pocket because they didn't know where Tebow was at any point after the snap. If your trying to come back from a tough injury to come back from then have to block for a QB who is pulling the ball down after seeing his 1st option covered then your going to expect to see him hold a lot.

How about you back up your opinion on Clady with some real evidence rather than just typing one sentence BS like: "his run blocking is below avg, he held alot in 2011 and he is not same as he was before his injury"?

[Heyneck]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Now your just talking crap.. His run blocking leaves a lot to be desired and speed rushers well force our QBs out or up into the pocket more than they should.

But you and dream keep having oragams about him. It ok to have a a circle jerk about him.

IF HE WAS THE SAME GUY HE WAS BEFORE HIS KNEE injury then we could talk about being 1 or 2.

Hours of practice on technique also have enabled Clady to become a more efficient run blocker.

"I think the area he's improved in is his run blocking," said Broncos coach John Fox. "It was something that we had seen as something he could improve at and he has."

Read more: Denver Broncos' Ryan Clady showing he's worth the big bucks - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz2JFNzgpMj
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

[extralife]

If anyone hadn't stopped paying attention to lonestar before, the cue now is probably when someone says we run to the right because Beadles is an excellent puller and lonestar essentially responds by saying we should just pull beadles to the left. clearly we have a budding offensive line coach here.

[broncosteven]

Did a new thread get made to discuss this further? This thread got quiet all of a sudden.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

Did a new thread get made to discuss this further? This thread got quiet all of a sudden.

We are one rookie/below average LT away from being a contender.

[*WARHORSE*]

Does anyone really think Clady is playing anywhere but Denver next year with a franchise caliber QB under center?


Clady will be wearing his number here for a long time, or we will get a kings ransom in draft picks for him.

[*WARHORSE*]

Does anyone really think Clady is playing anywhere but Denver next year?

Hes not.

He's gonna be right here under the franchise tag or a long term deal.

No way Elway doesnt lock up Clady to protect Peyton.



End of story.

[extralife]

thanks for giving us two posts an hour apart on the same topic. forget your pills this morning?

[Natedogg]

crapstar.