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Old 01-24-2013, 03:24 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by lonestar View Post
Hoe do you remotely think he is going to take 9.6. If anything it will be closer to 12 a year in cap hit.

Hell he turned down right at 10 a year last summer. IIRC five years for 45+ million. What makes you think he would not want a hell of a lot more?

As far as dj and Mayes yes you lose ten mil in salary. But you

ONE you have to replace both players as bodies not necessarily as LB but I'd guess losing at least brooking, dj and mayes they would add another lb or two to the roster.

So replacing a player is going cost you between 400 to 700 K EACH if they are role players. SO LET'S SAY A MILLION for the two. ( now that could be less if we just get bodies via UDFA. But not much less.

TWO The prorated bonus money has to be deducted from the upcoming cap. If I calculated this correctly that is close to 2 mil between the two.

So now instead of having all that 10 million to spend on Clady you really have something closer to 7.

Now I'm not trying to be him stile here. I just expect that folks be realistic.

If I'm wrong show me where I am. Back it up with facts not pipe dreams.
$9.6 Million would be the franchise tag amount. I had thought the 7.7 for DJ is subtracted from the cap with only the 1.7 bonus counting against the cap, meaning a $6 million cap savings to cut him. And Mays is closer to $4.. This is two less signed players, with about $10 million added to the cap, so if you draft a LB $400-$700k and the $9.6 tag for Clady.. This is essentially an even cap swap to at least keep Clady on the team and get a LB from the draft. Even roster and cap exchange essentially.

If you draft a LT, you may be saving loads of cap, but your using a first round draft pick, on not the same instant quality of a player. Lane Johnson is who your looking at come 28, he's not going to be as good as Clady year one. Or do you think so? Who's the free agent LT or draftee you would like? If you let Clady walk and you draft a LT instead of a MLB, other than saving money, how does that make the team better? You have no well thought out contingency plan but you are talking **** that we are dreaming for suggesting resigning him. In my Offseason Plan 1.0 on the draft forum, my only notable FA pick up was a cheap signing of Collie. And that's day dreaming!! Your something special.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:28 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
1. Justin Boren 405k
2. Paul Cornick 405k No Bonus
3. Ben Garland 405k
4. Gerell Robinson 405k
5. Quentin Saulsberry 405k
6. Aaron Brewer 480k 1,333
7. Omar Bolden 480k 249,396
8. Brock Osweiler 480k 172,708
9. Ronnie Hillman 480k 172,708
10. Trindon Holliday 480k
11. Philip Blake 480k 113,400
12. Sealver Siliga 480k
13. Duke Ihenacho 480k
14. Danny Trevathan 480k 26,018
15. Malik Jackson 480k 53,400
16. Steven Johnson 480k
17. Jeremiah Johnson 480k
18. Mario Fannin 480k
19. Derek Wolfe 480k 713,582
20. Julius Thomas 555k
21. Virgil Green 555k
22. Quinton Carter 555k 432,500
23. Chris Harris 555k
24. Nate Irving 555k 173,750
25. Rahim Moore 555k
26. C.J Davis 555k
27. Eric Decker 575k 183,037
28. Zane Beadles 575k 430,000
29. JD Walton 715k 199,625
30. Jacob Hester 715k
31. Manuel Ramirez 715k
32. Orlando Franklin 771k 420,000
33. Demaryius Thomas 836,500k 1,593,750
34. Andre Caldwell 900k 100,000
35. Robert Ayers 1,060,000 1,181,250
36. Caleb Hanie 1,250,000
37. Knowshon Moreno 1,700,000 1,775,750
38. Wesley Woodyard 2,000,000
39. Mike Adams 1,750,000 250k
40 Von Miller 2,284,125 3,443,251
41. Willis McGahee 2,500,000 500K
42. Jacob Tamme 2,500,000 500,000
43. Matt Prater 2,500,000 812,500
44. Joel Dreessen 2,500,000 833,333
45. Joe Mays 4,000,000 166,667
46. Chris Kuper 4,500,000 1,415,166
47. DJ Williams 6,000,000 1,732,500
48. Champ Bailey 9,000,000
49 Elvis Dumervil 12,000,000 4,675,000
50. Peyton Manning 20,000,000

If I read one more quote with Lonestar saying we only have 35 or 37 players under contract I'm going to flip out. All those players have a contract for NEXT SEASON
There are your base numbers of the 50 players under contract for the next season.

Grand total base salaries for next year are 92,726,625 million dollars. I do think that number is high due to the fact I think added extra money when I figured it to Moreno's contract.

Clearly we are doomed and should shut the team down.

20,787,749 in bonus and 1 million in dead money.

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Old 01-24-2013, 03:42 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Dendave View Post
No it's true, I saw it on the internet
with a little research you are correct

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How else did the franchise-tag rules change?

Teams can continuously franchise players, but it'll cost them to do that. As had been the case previously, a player tagged a second straight year would have his number set at 120 percent of the previous figure. A third straight year? That's where things change, and the percentage goes up to 144.
so it can be done thanks for the impetus to check it out..

I doubt that they would tag him more than once, because of the cost ..

but who knows.. for sure..
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:51 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
There are your base numbers of the 50 players under contract for the next season.

Grand total base salaries for next year are 92,726,625 million dollars. I do think that number is high due to the fact I think added extra money when I figured it to Moreno's contract.

Clearly we are doomed and should shut the team down.
We should cut Manning because we can draft a QB to play cheaper.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:53 PM   #105
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$9.6 Million would be the franchise tag amount. I had thought the 7.7 for DJ is subtracted from the cap with only the 1.7 bonus counting against the cap, meaning a $6 million cap savings to cut him. And Mays is closer to $4.. This is two less signed players, with about $10 million added to the cap, so if you draft a LB $400-$700k and the $9.6 tag for Clady.. This is essentially an even cap swap to at least keep Clady on the team and get a LB from the draft. Even roster and cap exchange essentially.

If you draft a LT, you may be saving loads of cap, but your using a first round draft pick, on not the same instant quality of a player. Lane Johnson is who your looking at come 28, he's not going to be as good as Clady year one. Or do you think so? Who's the free agent LT or draftee you would like? If you let Clady walk and you draft a LT instead of a MLB, other than saving money, how does that make the team better? You have no well thought out contingency plan but you are talking **** that we are dreaming for suggesting resigning him. In my Offseason Plan 1.0 on the draft forum, my only notable FA pick up was a cheap signing of Collie. And that's day dreaming!! Your something special.
First of all I'm not angry about winning or losing a debate.. just want you to justify the numbers you put out..

thanks for coming back with this..

Yes I had someone else point out it would be tag money and not contract money

I'm not all that sure that a drafted OLT can not be just as good as clady is at this time..

his run blocking has always been less than great and lately since his knee issue the speed rushers have given him trouble while not officially giving up but one sack there have been hurries or forcing Manning up into he pocket..


You can go back and check my records/post about always wanting to up grade the OL and DL..

IMO that has been a weak spot for decades..

no need to be hostile just because all I have ever asked is how are you going to pay for some of the dream you and others have had..
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:55 PM   #106
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Da dafffty doooodle da diddle doo da dummies Bowlen gots da pennies to draftie doops.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:57 PM   #107
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We should cut Manning because we can draft a QB to play cheaper.
While true it means we would need a better LT because the QB is not Manning. What a conundrum we are in
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:57 PM   #108
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I had forgot about the non exclusive tag, that saves money or a roster spot and loads of cap money if he gets a better deal..

frankly I do not see him as the elite OLT that a few seem to think he is..

It will be interesting to see how the FO thinks on this..

I could be wrong as Hell on this and he just may be the second coming of Zimmerman.

But then if they do give him the keys to Pats House what do they use to sign the other players with..

for every guy they cut they have to replace them with a body and they are not free like so many here think..


unlike you I believe IF THEY ARE USED properly draft choices are more important than some players are..

for the most part if used proroperly they can indeed replace players fast.

one spot in particular is LB they can start immediately, may get beat from time to time, but if you have the right guy they should be a starter..

if the choice is correct the same should work for safety also.. has not worked for us lately but otehr teams seem to get it right..

I also believe that OL guys can step in and start day one.. again some growing pains as we saw with Walton, Beadles, Franklin and less so with Clady but we have proven the myth wrong about that..

Again unlike you I believe we are still rebuilding from the Mikey and Josh regimes.. John had brought in loads of one year contract guys, to fill the void while our kiddies earned their spurs..

OK I will play some more.

Lets say we let Clady walk and decide to draft a brand spanking new kid to start at LT day one.

Lets move from looking at the CAP to the draft.

We draft at what #26 in each round right?

Clady was drafted 12th overall, Brandon Albert, drafted 15th overall, Joe Thomas 3rd over all, etc...

Who is going to be there for us in the late 20's to pick then start and play at a level equal or better to Clady?

In your world do the Broncos move up 10 spots to get a Tackle they like? How many picks does that move cost us?
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:10 PM   #109
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this is a dead money post to see what if anything carries over to 2013 according to sport trac..
http://www.spotrac.com/

all of those listed as dead money/buyouts on that site

this is what appears to be on the books for 2013 and has to fit under the cap..

Code:
Dead Money / Buyouts
Andre' Goodman at Cornerback 	2013: 	800,000
Coryell Judie at Cornerback 	2013: 	6,667
Eric Page at Wide Receiver 		
Ty Warren at Defensive Tackle 		
Jabar Gaffney at Wide Receiver 	 	
Eric Olsen at Guard 		
Perrish Cox at Cornerback 		
Darcel McBath at Safety 	
Richard Quinn at Tight End 		
Lonie Paxton at Long Snapper 	2013: 	182,600
Austin Wuebbels at Guard 	
Elliot Coffey at Linebacker          2013: 	2,000	
Anthony Miller at Tight End 	       2013: 	3,334
Mike Remmers at Tackle 	
Drayton Florence at Cornerback 	
Duke Ihenacho at Cornerback 		
Jerry Franklin at Linebacker 	
Ben Garland at Defensive Tackle 	
Wayne Tribue at Guard 		
Syd'Quan Thompson at Cornerback 	
Gerell Robinson at Wide Receiver 		
Jamie Blatnick at Defensive Tackle
right at Million.. again if their numbers are correct..
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:24 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
There are your base numbers of the 50 players under contract for the next season.

Grand total base salaries for next year are 92,726,625 million dollars. I do think that number is high due to the fact I think added extra money when I figured it to Moreno's contract.

Clearly we are doomed and should shut the team down.
do you really beleive that we are going into teh season with what was practice squad player last year on the roster?

look I realize you do not like what I have been saying but, but I think we agree that if we started with 35 players a month ago under contract and we signed 17 because we actually have 52 players under contract for 2013 as we speak.. TWO do not have dollar values attached to them yet..

if we started with 35 solid players added 17 probably scrubs (all below normal player pricing ). we still have to draft at least six players and no doubt have a few UDFA as well as UFA coming.. what is left of that 21 million is going to go pretty fast..

that is IF Pat allows them to max out the cap this year..

Time will tell if John deems Caldy worth 12 million a year..

Myself I do not think he will..

BTW we have another 13 players with contracts expiring in 2013.. and other 19 going out in 2014..

so they may be looking at that long term stuff also when making the decision..
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:37 PM   #111
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OK I will play some more.

Lets say we let Clady walk and decide to draft a brand spanking new kid to start at LT day one.

Lets move from looking at the CAP to the draft.

We draft at what #26 in each round right?

Clady was drafted 12th overall, Brandon Albert, drafted 15th overall, Joe Thomas 3rd over all, etc...

Who is going to be there for us in the late 20's to pick then start and play at a level equal or better to Clady?

In your world do the Broncos move up 10 spots to get a Tackle they like? How many picks does that move cost us?
Frankly I do not know I have not followed college ball for a long time and get my info about the players from the bowl games, the upcoming north south and then during the combine..

I have never alluded to being a draft guru, frankly I doubt John would care about my thoughts on it..

I'll let John and his scouting staff with input from the coaching staff make those decisions.. I doubt they want to hear from anyone on a forum any way..

it is above my pay grade as it is yours..

I have heard this is a very good year for OT's in the draft .

so you guess..

Not every starter has to be taken in the top ten.. I suspect there will be a couple available in the first three rounds.. with a decent selection at 28..

all of which will cost a third or less of what clady will get..
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:41 PM   #112
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Frankly I do not know I have not followed college ball for a long time and get my info about the players from the bowl games, the upcoming north south and then during the combine..

I have never alluded to being a draft guru, frankly I doubt John would care about my thoughts on it..

I'll let John and his scouting staff with input from the coaching staff make those decisions.. I doubt they want to hear from anyone on a forum any way..

it is above my pay grade as it is yours..

I have heard this is a very good year for OT's in the draft .

so you guess..

Not every starter has to be taken in the top ten.. I suspect there will be a couple available in the first three rounds.. with a decent selection at 28..

all of which will cost a third or less of what clady will get..
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:56 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by lonestar View Post
Frankly I do not know I have not followed college ball for a long time and get my info about the players from the bowl games, the upcoming north south and then during the combine..

I have never alluded to being a draft guru, frankly I doubt John would care about my thoughts on it..

I'll let John and his scouting staff with input from the coaching staff make those decisions.. I doubt they want to hear from anyone on a forum any way..

it is above my pay grade as it is yours..

I have heard this is a very good year for OT's in the draft .

so you guess..

Not every starter has to be taken in the top ten.. I suspect there will be a couple available in the first three rounds.. with a decent selection at 28..

all of which will cost a third or less of what clady will get..
I am not asking WHO you want I wanted to know WHERE you think they would get the new LT.

Your insane if you think a 2nd or 3rd round LT would come in and start day 1 and be equal or better than Clady.

Again you keep ignoring my references to the Chicago Bears OL issues, they drafted Gabe Carimi in the 1st round and they are still waiting for him to step up and pan out, that is after totally wiffing on Chris Williams and before that Marc Columbo (who eventually made a decent career bouncing around the league after getting cut for sucking.

I don't want names, I want to know how you figure John will draft a replacement that is = or > Clady.

Clady was the 2nd Tackle taken at 12 the year he was drafted, after that there was a run on tackles, 5 out of the next 10 picks were OT's.

If your saying let Clady walk and then get a guy in the draft that is = or > then we need to move up into or near the top 10. In order to that we would have to package at least 2, maybe even 3 picks which would totally hose up our development down the road and kill the chances that we aquire other positions of need like a top flight MLB, DT, RB, S, etc...
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:12 PM   #114
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Here are the facts.

We had as a month ago 35 players under contract for 2013.
At that time we had 18.5 million under the cap.

We have since signed ten players to future contracts money unknown to me.

Since the roster is 53 and we had 18.5 to spend if Pat allows them to spend every dime, and since he has not the past four years there is little to elite he will this year .

We need 53 to fill out the roster. Means that 18 players have to fit under the cap numbers plus anther 7-10 that will hit IR before the end of the season.. All of which are going to have to be paid and still stay under the cap.

If you spend 12 million n Clady. 10 in salary and 2 in prorated bonus money. How are you going to to be able to afford to fill it the roster.

MO your smart where is the money going to come from.

Or do yu think all of those almost 30 players are going to fit into 6 million dollar..

Again IF Pat allows them to max there salary cap. Which he has not in at least 4 years.

Show me the mney MO.

I know they tried to sign him cheap last year. It back fired and now some other team will out bid them plain and simple

Unless he takes the same contract they offered him last year or less.

What are those odds?

Show me the money MO.
You're overreacting. And clueless, as well.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:26 PM   #115
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There's nearly $10 million coming OFF the books too...at least.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:07 PM   #116
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You're overreacting. And clueless, as well.
But he's backed up by a ton of rep comments. "Loads" of people support him...
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:10 PM   #117
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I am not asking WHO you want I wanted to know WHERE you think they would get the new LT.

Your insane if you think a 2nd or 3rd round LT would come in and start day 1 and be equal or better than Clady.

Again you keep ignoring my references to the Chicago Bears OL issues, they drafted Gabe Carimi in the 1st round and they are still waiting for him to step up and pan out, that is after totally wiffing on Chris Williams and before that Marc Columbo (who eventually made a decent career bouncing around the league after getting cut for sucking.

I don't want names, I want to know how you figure John will draft a replacement that is = or > Clady.

Clady was the 2nd Tackle taken at 12 the year he was drafted, after that there was a run on tackles, 5 out of the next 10 picks were OT's.

If your saying let Clady walk and then get a guy in the draft that is = or > then we need to move up into or near the top 10. In order to that we would have to package at least 2, maybe even 3 picks which would totally hose up our development down the road and kill the chances that we aquire other positions of need like a top flight MLB, DT, RB, S, etc...
I'll say it again. and hikite the part that you seemed to miss

Quote:
Frankly I do not know I have not followed college ball for a long time and get my info about the players from the bowl games, the upcoming north south and then during the combine..

I have never alluded to being a draft guru, frankly I doubt John would care about my thoughts on it..

I'll let John and his scouting staff with input from the coaching staff make those decisions.. I doubt they want to hear from anyone on a forum any way..


it is above my pay grade as it is yours..

I have heard this is a very good year for OT's in the draft .

so you guess..

Not every starter has to be taken in the top ten.. I suspect there will be a couple available in the first three rounds.. with a decent selection at 28..

all of which will cost a third or less of what clady will get..
I have never alluded to saying I'm know who or where the players come from.

I have said that and will stick by it that drafted players can start in the nFL.

Perhaps he will not be at Cladys level day one because even Clady was not at this level day one.

If they have to keep a TE or blocking back in to protect Manning on some plays so be it.

They do not wind up playing Clady on the vicinity of 12 mil(cap dollars) per year. Which he will not doubt get from some one.

You are not going to get me to commit to naming a player that will be as good or better than Clady is at this moment.

Hey maybe the next guy will be better. Hell Franklin surprised the hell out of folks this year with his improvement. And when was he drafted.

And Yes I know that manning has a limited life span in Denver,but we also have other priorities to pay for that 12 mil would go along way to fix other issues.



Hope that answers your questions
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:12 PM   #118
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You're overreacting. And clueless, as well.
Show me the money.

Time will tell with what happens with Clady. And loads of other dreams of every poster on here.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:13 PM   #119
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There's nearly $10 million coming OFF the books too...at least.
Where is it coming from?
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:26 PM   #120
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Where is it coming from?
there are 48 players on our Roster I would cut to find money for Clady. Lucky for us we won't have to.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:53 PM   #121
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there are 48 players on our Roster I would cut to find money for Clady. Lucky for us we won't have to.
Actually there are 52 players on the roster 35 of which were on it at the end of season the last group was the practice squad and a few others were signed since the EOS.

Yet for the past at least 4 years and IIRC a couple of Mikey's last years Pat has held the GM/HC from sending the entire car space we actually had.

During the last throes of Mikey's time the rumor got started that Pat was broke.

While we supposedly have about 20 million in cap space, what makes anyone believe that Pat is going allow John to spend it all this year? Of that cap space we have 11.5 is being carried ver from last year.

What's makes folks think we will not carry that much to next year?
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:03 AM   #122
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What's makes folks think we will not carry that much to next year?
1. the carry over deal was a one time thing

2. 13-3. when you're close, you spend to get there. it's not rocket science, and bowlen has done it before.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:16 AM   #123
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The new CBA requires each team to spend almost all of their cap. They no longer have the option of being cheap. Someone is getting that money.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:04 AM   #124
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The people involved in financial decisions for the Broncos will probably raise ticket prices and the team is usually top 5 in revenue. They shouldn't have a hard time spending the necessary amount.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:28 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24champ View Post
But he's backed up by a ton of rep comments. "Loads" of people support him...
I heard that he has binders full of rep.
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