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Old 10-28-2012, 08:58 AM   #51
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Every person on the planet is a fraud the only variable is the degree
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:01 AM   #52
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There were plenty of pro cyclist out there who were clean and trying to feed their families just like Lance.
Yeah, right.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:04 AM   #53
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Speaking of frauds, gotta love all the moralizers that are defending this guy based on "well, other people did it too!"
By the same token you have to question those who are only saying to go after Lance because he won and not all the underlings who never won anything, denied doping, and still tested positive. I don't see anyone calling Ulrich on the stand, who did everything that Armstrong has done except win titles.

Where's your morality there?
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:57 AM   #54
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as long as there is a criminal consequence. if Lance were given immunity to any criminal repacussions(sp),he would not be able to claim the 5th.
If he were given immunity then why should he talk for that matter why would they.

While you are correct the likely hood of that happening are slim.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:59 AM   #55
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Dude's a fraud. Doesn't matter one damn bit what others were doing.

Speaking of frauds, gotta love all the moralizers that are defending this guy based on "well, other people did it too!"
Says the king of morality.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:24 PM   #56
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Who's pension fund or personal wealth portfolio did Armstrong wipe out?

Get back to me on this I'd like to know.
His own and all those who believed in him... do you still think he is just a swell guy?
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:04 PM   #57
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how much of the money he raised would he have been able to raise if he was just some rider vs being the 7 time champion ? Id say he defrauded people out of $470 million, while not on madoff levels, its still pretty bad if you ask me.

Id put armstrong and tom brady in the same group, both may very well have been the best, but neither has won a dang thing without cheating, so really how high can they be ranked ?
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:57 PM   #58
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It was basically the steroid era. They were all ****ing doping. Put an asterisk next to them if you want, but he won those damn races.

And then he parlays his fame into fighting the disease that nearly killed him. The LIVESTRONG Foundation has raised more than $470M.

Lance Armstrong is an American hero.

Since the top 20 or riders from his first win also failed drug test, I think we just need to recognize that of all the ped athletes, lance is the best ever
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:24 PM   #59
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Since the top 20 or riders from his first win also failed drug test, I think we just need to recognize that of all the ped athletes, lance is the best ever
Lance definately had the best drug dodging procedures. He also had the money for it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:36 PM   #60
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I just finished the book "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton. That book is a hell of an eye-opener and is frankly, a great read. I'm about 100% certain that they will make a movie out of it someday. I recommend it to any sports fan. Read that book, and consider its implications across every sport.

We're in a brave new world where sports "medicine" is concerned. I'm not sure what to think anymore.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:39 PM   #61
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Since the top 20 or riders from his first win also failed drug test, I think we just need to recognize that of all the ped athletes, lance is the best ever
I hardly believe that. I think Lance is definitely a winner - the guy has the heart of a champion, and the ego of one too. But cycling is a team sport as much as football is. Lance was the "quarterback," but he's ridden with others who could have pulled the same or similar feats if they had the chutzpah to go for it. Lance got where he got because he was willing to walk over a lot of people to do it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:22 PM   #62
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I hardly believe that. I think Lance is definitely a winner - the guy has the heart of a champion, and the ego of one too. But cycling is a team sport as much as football is. Lance was the "quarterback," but he's ridden with others who could have pulled the same or similar feats if they had the chutzpah to go for it. Lance got where he got because he was willing to walk over a lot of people to do it.
And dip better than anyone in the business. By the way, he just admitted to it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:05 PM   #63
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Whatever anyone wants to take away from Lance, they'll never take away the fact that he beat brain, lung, and testicular cancer, and fought his way back to win seven Tour de France rides and now sits atop an empire totaling $125 million.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:55 PM   #64
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Whatever anyone wants to take away from Lance, they'll never take away the fact that he beat brain, lung, and testicular cancer, and fought his way back to win seven Tour de France rides and now sits atop an empire totaling $125 million.
He beat metastatic testicular cancer that spread to his brain and lungs. Sounds awful but testiccular cancer is one of the most easily treatable malignancies. The prognosis for his disease -- especially given his functional status -- was excellent. That, and his steroid use could have contributed to the development of cancer to begin with. I admire his advocacy for cancer patients in general but the idea that he "beat" a terminal illness is patently false.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:59 PM   #65
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He beat metastatic testicular cancer that spread to his brain and lungs. Sounds awful but testiccular cancer is one of the most easily treatable malignancies. The prognosis for his disease -- especially given his functional status -- was excellent. That, and his steroid use could have contributed to the development of cancer to begin with. I admire his advocacy for cancer patients in general but the idea that he "beat" a terminal illness is patently false.
Fair enough. Even still, seems like a hard thing to battle back from to compete at the top levels. I understand that he got there through controversial methods, but just the sheer determination and will to win in a sport so physically taxing. I really struggle with this whole cycling thing - especially where the blood transfusions are concerned. As far as I understand, it's just their own blood being used to replenish their red blood cells. Seems like something that they'll never be able to "clean up" so they might as well embrace it and have team doctors administering it.

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Old 01-23-2013, 10:02 PM   #66
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I've always respected Lance until recently, and it has nothing to do with doping. The guy is a genuine sociopath.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:05 PM   #67
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He is still my favorite athlete of all time. Everyone was using some kind of drug, and he still kicked their collective ass for 7 years running. Hell, athletes from Eastern Europe set records that will probably never be broken. Anyone remember all the East German women with mustaches? Their entire body type changed. What Armstrong did was nothing by comparison.

Most world class athletes are pricks, and Lance is no exception. So what? He looked like a man, he dominated his sport for a decade, he dated hot women, he made countless millions of dollars riding a freaking bike, and he raised 10 times as much money for arguably the most well known cancer charity in the world.

Then, as if on cue, the media tore him down and the vultures wasted no time destroying him.

The dude will always be #1 in my book.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:11 PM   #68
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I've always respected Lance until recently, and it has nothing to do with doping. The guy is a genuine sociopath.
I feel the same way, though the lens I'm reading through is Tyler Hamilton, so I don't have a full picture by any means - but if half the stuff Tyler says is true, sociopath is probably a good word for him.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:19 AM   #69
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His demeanor seemed... arrogant and defiant... even during his interview(s) with Oprah. I'm not sure the way he came across was the outcome he wanted; it was like he just made things worse with the "attitude" he showed. And he absolutely needed to apologize to the other rider's wife (the lady he'd publicly called a liar while he was still insisting that he hadn't used PED's). You can't go on tv and admit to having lied... and still appear to be "in the right" with having bullied her for telling the truth.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:39 AM   #70
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Anyone remember all the East German women with mustaches? Their entire body type changed.
most eastern european women still have mustaches, those musta been some bad ass drugs that 2 generations later they still havent worn off
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:34 AM   #71
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He cheated at bike riding. Who really gives a damn?
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:22 AM   #72
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Ok people. Perhaps you should read what he is actually accused of taking before hating him. Steriods is the least of his possible issues. Here is the list of what he is accused of possibly using. He may have used some or all of the following.

Erythropoietin (EPO), also known as “E,” “Po,” “Edgar” or “Edgar Allen Poe,” among other names. EPO is used by athletes to increase the number of red blood cells in their circulatory system which are available to carry oxygen. … Even after the EPO urine test was developed and implemented in sport in late 2000 EPO was difficult to detect and the Respondents [Armstrong, a team director, team captain and team doctors] implemented a number of means to avoid detection of EPO use, including: micro-dosing (i.e., using smaller amounts of EPO to reduce the clearance time of the drug), intravenous injections (i.e., injecting the drug directly into the vein rather than subcutaneously to reduce clearance time), saline, plasma or glycerol infusions (described below) and various effort to avoid testing by drug testers at times that EPO might still be detectable in the riders’ urine. … Multiple riders with firsthand knowledge will testify that between 1998 and 2005 Armstrong personally used EPO and on multiple occasions distributed EPO to other riders.

Blood transfusions (a/k/a “blood doping”). Blood transfusions generally involve the extraction of an athlete’s own blood pre-competition and re-infusion of that blood shortly before or during competition (e.g., in the evening or on a rest day in a multistage race) to increase the athlete’s oxygen carrying red blood cells. By increasing the number of circulating red blood cells, transfusions increase the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood and enhance endurance and recovery. No effective anti-doping test has yet been implemented to detect autologous transfusions (i.e., transfusions of an athlete’s own blood). … Multiple riders will testify that during the period 2000-2005 Armstrong used blood transfusions, was observed having blood re-infused, including during the Tour de France, and had blood doping equipment at his residence.

Testosterone. Also known on the USPS and Discovery Channel cycling teams as “oil.” Testosterone is an anabolic agent and can increase muscle mass and strength. In smaller doses anabolic agents such as testosterone can promote muscle recovery from strenuous exercise and increase endurance. Andriol consists of testosterone undecanoate, a steroid which can be mixed with oil and taken orally. Taken in this way the drug can be absorbed into the lymphatic system without being transported to the liver, making the drug more effective and reducing the prospect of liver damage. Multiple riders who competed on the USPS and Discovery Channel teams from 1998 through 2007 have reported that Dr. Ferrari [an alleged co-conspirator] developed a method of mixing testosterone (i.e., andriol) with olive oil for oral administration. … USADA has eyewitness statements from multiple sources that Lance Armstrong used testosterone and administered the testosterone-olive oil mixture to himself and other riders.

Human Growth Hormone (hGH). Human growth hormone is improperly used in sport to increase strength and lean muscle mass, to assist in weight loss and promote recovery. Multiple riders who competed on the USPS and Discovery Channel teams from 1998 through 2007 have reported to USADA that team director Johan Bruyneel, team trainer Jose Pepe Marti and team doctors Luis del Moral and Pedro Celaya provided human growth hormone to team members.

Corticosteroids (e.g., cortisone). These drugs reduce inflammation, assist in recovery and can provide a burst of energy and create a temporary feeling of increased energy and well-being. Throughout the relevant time period, corticosteroids were improperly provided to cyclists by team doctors and trainers to increase energy and enhance performance. … USADA will also rely upon firsthand testimony from witnesses who were aware of Armstrong’s use of cortisone without medical authorization.

Saline and plasma infusions. Throughout much of the relevant period the UCI [Union Cycliste International] employed a blood monitoring program and would not permit riders to compete if the rider’s hematocrit (i.e., percentage of mature red blood cells) exceeded 50%. To avoid exceeding the 50% hematocrit threshold and to prevent detection of the rider’s EPO use and/or blood transfusions, Respondents used the prohibited technique of saline, plasma or glycerol infusions to mask their use of prohibited substances and/or methods. … USADA will also present testimony concerning infusions given to numbers USPS riders, including Lance Armstrong.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:28 AM   #73
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If you want my opinion on the matter, which means nothing really.

Almost all of that wasn't against the rules at the time he did it. So he cheated because he was what? An innovator? If you did cycling and you didn't use what was not banned, then you were just a Loser and were jealous that you couldn't win.

If it was banned when he used it, sure, he cheated. But you can't make a blanket statement that says anything that gives you an unfair advantage is cheating. That's like saying Tebow cheats because he has too much heart. Or Rod Smith cheats because he works too hard. ANYTHING can be an unfair advantage.

Dude overcame cancer and beat others who did the same damn thing. People are just jealous who lost to him and this is how they get him for winning over them.

I see a man who was willing to do everything to win.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:04 AM   #74
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Almost all of that wasn't against the rules at the time he did it.



Dude overcame cancer and beat others who did the same damn thing.
Youre ****in stupid. Most of those were banned and Lance is on record, under oath, saying that had he been caught getting blood transfusions not only would he be banned from the sport but also arrested. Arrested! It was against the law!

And the argument that EVERY rider was doping is such an ignorant statement that it almost doesnt warrant response.
There were so many riders who were clean and trying to feed their families just like Lance. I have a feeling if you were one of those guys, you might have a different opinion right now.
But I get the attitude that so many people have these days.. Get yours at all cost and trample who ever dares stand in your way.

And I wont even get into questionable practices of the Livestrong Organization. But its just a witch hunt, right Lance?
I prey this guy gets sued into bankruptcy which is very ****in likely, especially since people are starting to dig deeper now into Livestrong.
But youre wealthy now arent you lance? And youre probably thinking to yourself that it was worth it. Because honestly, maybe it was. You never would have been sh*t without dope. No one would know your name.
Everyone does now.. and they will always think of you as a fraud. Your children, and the 3 wives you cheated on will all see you that way too. But you got yours Lance. Ill give you that.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:35 AM   #75
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is it worth wasting us supreme court resources on this case because of the high profile nature of it, or can we just get over this because who gives a crap?
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