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Old 01-22-2013, 09:36 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
A lot of you guys in this thread are trying to fix that game or even that one play at the end of regulation by thinking some free agent or draft pick would have changed things like it's going to happen that way again.

Here's the reality. We led the league in sacks, and while Miller's production had a lot to do with it, the reality is many of our games he'd get one or two and everyone else got the other four, five or six sacks spread out.

Pass rush isn't a problem. We need more strength at the POA inside and better speed at linebacker, particularly in the middle and some help in the secondary. I will concede that the OP suggests the safeties could use some upgrading.

However basing what this team needs on one game where we played bad all over is just more emotional reaction to the loss and not based on reality.
While I agree, there are weaknesses or lack of depth on this team that were apparent the entire season. Safety and MLB specifically were a constant shuffle. We can't rely on Jim Leonard, Mike Adams and Keith Brooking going forward and there is great opportunity to upgrade their positions.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:41 AM   #52
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This. It's happening here as well over the Pats. People saying they need to blow the whole thing up when they were a few crappy drives away from appearing in yet another SB.
Absolutely! I liked the scheme and the performance of the defense this year, but the 2 most needed postions are MLB and S and then DT. DT is not a playmaking position in this scheme like the one gap attacking schemes who need an elite 3 tech to draw Double teams. The DT's are role players and the Edge rushers are the playmakers. The Scheme funnels inside out so the outside players are available to make plays.

The problem is really on the back end not being able to hold up downfield if the pass rush is not right there immediately. There is NO WAY the secondary should get beat deep rushing 4. All of the deep balls in the playoff game were rush 4 or less. No way you let those WR's get behind you having 7 to cover. Bad coaching and even worse execution.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:42 AM   #53
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While I agree, there are weaknesses or lack of depth on this team that were apparent the entire season. Safety and MLB specifically were a constant shuffle. We can't rely on Jim Leonard, Mike Adams and Keith Brooking going forward and there is great opportunity to upgrade their positions.
I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't get better. I'm saying floating ideas based on what went wrong last game is stupid. For example "We couldn't get any pressure on Flacco therefore we need a pass rushing DT." That's stupid.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:48 AM   #54
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I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't get better. I'm saying floating ideas based on what went wrong last game is stupid. For example "We couldn't get any pressure on Flacco therefore we need a pass rushing DT." That's stupid.
Well considering I would expect Wolfe to make a good leap anyway, I would agree. I certainly don't think that's the biggest weakness. It would be nice to grab a decent FA for the middle though.

MLB, Safety, BPA....then another RB. I'd hate to see us grabbing street FA's in week 12 again.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:54 AM   #55
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Well considering I would expect Wolfe to make a good leap anyway, I would agree. I certainly don't think that's the biggest weakness. It would be nice to grab a decent FA for the middle though.

MLB, Safety, BPA....then another RB. I'd hate to see us grabbing street FA's in week 12 again.
Honestly, where the **** would you play a pass rushing DT anyway?

Anyone even notice that in 3rd and longs we're generally rushing 3 or 4 (Von, Doom, Wolfe, Ayers)? Or when we DO bring someone not in that package it's usually Wesley?

This entire discussion is just so stupid.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:55 AM   #56
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Well considering I would expect Wolfe to make a good leap anyway, I would agree. I certainly don't think that's the biggest weakness. It would be nice to grab a decent FA for the middle though.

MLB, Safety, BPA....then another RB. I'd hate to see us grabbing street FA's in week 12 again.
Honestly, where the **** would you play a pass rushing DT anyway?

Anyone even notice that in 3rd and longs we're generally rushing 3 or 4 (Von, Doom, Wolfe, Ayers)? Or when we DO bring someone not in that package it's usually Wesley?

This entire discussion is just so stupid.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:05 AM   #57
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A pass rushing DT would necessitate more rotation of the DL on a down by down basis. That would be negated entirely by a hurryup offense.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:24 AM   #58
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yea dude glad nfl execs agree with you


As if an NFL exec's opinion has never been wrong? From what I'm seen from him by watching alot of UGA games is that he isn't a real factor and is just a guy that has great size and speed. Now, I'm not saying that I know more than even a decent NFL scout, but it's just what I saw.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:40 AM   #59
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You want some pressure? You want to put the QB on the ground?

Cover the open ****ing man for 3+ seconds. Playoff QBs will find the open man... there's your disparity.

In the 6 games played against teams with winning records, Denver sacked the QB 2.5x per game (5 of which coming against one opponent, drastically raising the ave).

In the other games, 3.8x per game.

Hmmm... what could possibly be causing this disparity...

Btw, also against winning teams: 13TDs to 3INTs by opposing QBs. Over 60% completion and roughly 80 ypg to TEs.

Get this "OMG WE OBVI NEED A PASSRUSHER!" bull**** out of here/
IDK I think it is a chicken or egg type conundrum, I think it was pressure that got in Manning's and Brady's head. Ravens covered well in both games and the inital coverage allowed the pressure to get hits on them or lead to sacks.

I think expecting more than 3 seconds of coverage is a bit much, after that you need guys who can impact the pocket and force the QB out of his rhythm and get hits and or sacks.

With our DT's now FA's no reason we can't upgrade most of them, go hard after Melton as our big FA. Then draft a presence at MLB who can cover and rush.

As long as we upgrade either a DT or MLB I will be happy. We have lived this long without above avg DT's, why stop now? Hell I would be happy if we passed on Melton (hoping Wolfe turns in to him down the road) and got a hulking wide body later in the draft who can command 2 blockers and free up Wolfe/Miller/Doom to rush. I just don't want more of the same.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:41 AM   #60
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Well considering I would expect Wolfe to make a good leap anyway, I would agree. I certainly don't think that's the biggest weakness. It would be nice to grab a decent FA for the middle though.

MLB, Safety, BPA....then another RB. I'd hate to see us grabbing street FA's in week 12 again.
Honestly, where the **** would you play a pass rushing DT anyway?

Anyone even notice that in 3rd and longs we're generally rushing 3 or 4 (Von, Doom, Wolfe, Ayers)? Or when we DO bring someone not in that package it's usually Wesley?

This entire discussion is just so stupid.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:53 AM   #61
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Honestly, where the **** would you play a pass rushing DT anyway?

Anyone even notice that in 3rd and longs we're generally rushing 3 or 4 (Von, Doom, Wolfe, Ayers)? Or when we DO bring someone not in that package it's usually Wesley?

This entire discussion is just so stupid.
Doesn't Wolfe move around to DE once in a great while? Didn't they use him there a few times over the year?

Ayers is still not a great Pass rusher, keep him off the field, slide Wolfe over to end and fit a Melton in Wolf's spot.

I am on the fence about DT, I think MLB is more of a priorty now, I will likely flip flop on it all off season. It is just so hard to not go after a guy who is realatively young with the skill set of Melton who is available for the highest bidder. I would be fine with a big old mouth breather in the 330lb range who can clog the middle on early downs and force stuff outside like Med said. If we do that and Pass on Melton we better hit on a great MLB.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:56 AM   #62
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I think Denvers top 4 needs are DT MLB G DE 2nd tier needs Slot WR RB S
switch MLB with DT and i agree. but the depth at DT is better than MLB in terms of where it drops off from the best to the lower tier.

if we took Floyd from Florida in the first round i'd be happy.
flexible DT who can play all over the DL like Wolfe. gets in the backfield and gets TFL and has experience at DE if we wanna use him as a flexible every down lineman to confuse the offense.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:58 AM   #63
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I'm ok with Big Vick and Wolfe starting at DT and Ayers and Doom starting at DE's (with Doom, Von, Ayers, and Wolfe on passing downs). I wouldn't mind bringing in another big DT and pass rusher DE for depth but it's not a big need. I would say we need an actual MLB and a Play making safety to improve our D. Brookings can't do it for another year and like I said in my previous post we need a game changer at safety. I would like to see those with the first two picks.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #64
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Doesn't Wolfe move around to DE once in a great while? Didn't they use him there a few times over the year?
More often than not. He plays DE in the base lineup.

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Ayers is still not a great Pass rusher, keep him off the field, slide Wolfe over to end and fit a Melton in Wolf's spot.

I am on the fence about DT, I think MLB is more of a priorty now, I will likely flip flop on it all off season. It is just so hard to not go after a guy who is realatively young with the skill set of Melton who is available for the highest bidder. I would be fine with a big old mouth breather in the 330lb range who can clog the middle on early downs and force stuff outside like Med said. If we do that and Pass on Melton we better hit on a great MLB.
Hey now, I STARTED the Melton bandwagon.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:10 AM   #65
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Honestly, where the **** would you play a pass rushing DT anyway?
At DT.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:11 AM   #66
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I'm ok with Big Vick and Wolfe starting at DT and Ayers and Doom starting at DE's (with Doom, Von, Ayers, and Wolfe on passing downs). I wouldn't mind bringing in another big DT and pass rusher DE for depth but it's not a big need. I would say we need an actual MLB and a Play making safety to improve our D. Brookings can't do it for another year and like I said in my previous post we need a game changer at safety. I would like to see those with the first two picks.
we can't get a consistent pass rush in key situations outside of Von and the Ravens figured out how to stop that for the most part.
we have to get a upgrade at DT who can force double teams and free up the LB's and and DE's.

we definitely need a stud MLB too. but the DT is critical. every MLB will tell you that the key for them is the DT's allowing them to be free and read the play.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:33 AM   #67
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In our scheme we need a two gapper who can hold the point of attack as well as be a disruptive force.. Brandon Williams in the draft, if we address it with a player in Free Agency, someone like Knighton or Sims. Big bodied DTs, stout verse the run, but can be disruptive in the pocket.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:35 PM   #68
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So... we had the #1 pass rush in the league, but in the game our secondary gets torched and we get no pressure, the assumption is that it must be a pass rush deficiency instead of the ****ing coverage?

This isn't your fault Jetmeck, I'm sick of so many people coming to these wrong side of the chicken-egg conclusions: You guys are seriously retarded...

I am sorry as well cause you need to accept the reality that a lot of those sacks came when we were up two scores against bad teams.

Take a look at playoff caliber tams and count the sacks, I dare ya.


Stupid is being unwilling to take off the homer glasses.

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Old 01-22-2013, 12:36 PM   #69
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we can't get a consistent pass rush in key situations outside of Von and the Ravens figured out how to stop that for the most part.
we have to get a upgrade at DT who can force double teams and free up the LB's and and DE's.

we definitely need a stud MLB too. but the DT is critical. every MLB will tell you that the key for them is the DT's allowing them to be free and read the play.

Yes, sir
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:39 PM   #70
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I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't get better. I'm saying floating ideas based on what went wrong last game is stupid. For example "We couldn't get any pressure on Flacco therefore we need a pass rushing DT." That's stupid.
As I have said take off the your homer glasses....our pass rush made its numbers aginst low quality non playoff caliber teams.

Say what you will being a homer and not admitting to the truth ?

What would you call that ?
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:41 PM   #71
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Heh you hard headed homers................where does a QB like Manning or Brady go when you have good edge rushing coming at them ?

They step up every time.

Wake up....we need a consistent pressure, not once in awhile when your up two scores.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:42 PM   #72
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I am sorry as well cause you need to accept the reality that a lot of those sacks came when we were up two scores against bad teams.

Take a look at playoff caliber tams and count the sacks, I dare ya.


Stupid is being unwilling to take off the homer glasses.
So you are saying we had more sacks in our 13 wins than our 4 losses? Genius!
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:45 PM   #73
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imo: need a Mike LB before anything else on O or on D. That was probably need #1 or 2 last year as well.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:49 PM   #74
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If Denver took a ILB, S, DT and DE in the draft I would be stoked. Add in a WR/RB/OL and cake.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:04 PM   #75
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As I have said take off the your homer glasses....our pass rush made its numbers aginst low quality non playoff caliber teams.

Say what you will being a homer and not admitting to the truth ?

What would you call that ?
I'd................call that...........a..........lot........of......perio ds............

I'd also argue we put up a lot of sacks against four of the top five best teams at not allowing sacks.

There are a lot of needs on this team. Interior pressure isn't one of them.
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