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Old 01-16-2013, 01:25 PM   #26
TonyR
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I just think they're taking a massive risk. Can't deny the potential upside I suppose. Belichick studied Kelly's offense, for example, and they're using some concepts from it this year. Which I guess proves you don't have to have a mobile QB to run some of the concepts. But, then, they have Tom ****ing Brady...
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:07 PM   #27
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damn i think that will turn out to be a good hire for the iggles
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:21 PM   #28
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his staff selection will be key. especially his defensive coordinator.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:53 PM   #29
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This will be real interesting to watch how this works out. Will Vick restructure? No way do you pay him more than half that IMO.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:11 PM   #30
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:25 PM   #31
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I can't think of another NFL head coach in recent history that has a kid's kickname like "Chip".
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:46 PM   #32
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...he has run a system that, while hot right now in the NFL, defensive coaches will adjust to this offseason. The pistol and the read option are fads that won't last because the quarterbacks are put at too much risk.

"Just because it's been a year and a half doesn't mean it's going to become the wave of the NFL," one NFL head coach told me recently. "I don't think that's going to happen. It's about those guys that can swing that ball down the field, really about spacing and throwing the ball. It travels a lot faster in the air 40 yards than it does on feet."

Kelly's Oregon teams have played at breakneck speed and befuddled even one of the best defensive minds in the game, Monte Kiffin, but the Ducks never won a national championship. They went 2-2 in bowl games. They couldn't beat Stanford this year.

And let's face it: College coaches who jump to the NFL rarely cut it. The past is littered with flameouts -- Steve Spurrier, Bobby Petrino and Nick Saban to name a few.

A college coach in a pro town with an extremely knowledgeable and demanding fan base bathed in history? Lurie and Roseman better be right.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/88...delphia-eagles
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:08 PM   #33
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Bartlett likes the hire. Good read.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-to-the-eagles
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:23 PM   #34
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Why can't these NFL geniuses understand that having a QB that has mobility PROTECTS them in the pocket too because teams don't want to attack them allowing them to scramble.

Sure.. defenses will adjust to these mobile QBs and the option.. but guess what.. then the mobile QBs will adjust again to the defenses. Just like ANY offense. It's just about diversity. How can NFL people not understand that diversity makes your offense better. Look at Belichick.. he runs an unconventional offense constantly... teams figure it out and he changes again.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:25 PM   #35
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Why can't these NFL geniuses understand that having a QB that has mobility PROTECTS them in the pocket too because teams don't want to attack them allowing them to scramble.

Sure.. defenses will adjust to these mobile QBs and the option.. but guess what.. then the mobile QBs will adjust again to the defenses. Just like ANY offense. It's just about diversity. How can NFL people not understand that diversity makes your offense better. Look at Belichick.. he runs an unconventional offense constantly... teams figure it out and he changes again.
Yep. The NFL is prejudiced against mobile QBs like Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, RGIII, etc. etc. etc.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:32 PM   #36
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Also there was another piece where Kelly said he didn't run the ball up the middle with his QB because guys like Tebow don't grow on trees... he sounded like he would gladly take Tebow if he had the chance. But this was in college. Who knows what his plans are in the NFL. He will likely be afraid to do anything he would get blamed for if it didn't work like most NFL people(Elway,cough cough).
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:34 PM   #37
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Yep. The NFL is prejudiced against mobile QBs like Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, RGIII, etc. etc. etc.
2 of them weren't first round picks.. so I don't understand what your point is. And Tebow got benched behind the gods Orton and Sanchez. lol
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:45 PM   #38
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2 of them weren't first round picks.. so I don't understand what your point is. And Tebow got benched behind the gods Orton and Sanchez. lol
Well, at least he was able to beat them out on STs.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:22 PM   #39
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the NFL isn't biased against mobile QB's. most mobile QB's are more runners than QB's.
it's rare to find a Vick,Newton,RGIII,Kaepernick,Wilson, even Luck is a pretty mobile QB.
but they're all passers first and runners as a extra benefit.

i've said it before and i'll say it again, the running and guts can't be the primary for a successful NFL QB. you have to be good at playing the position and then have extra complimentary attributes.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:25 PM   #40
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in true college coach fashion, he first had to declare that he wasn't going anywhere. once that formality was out of the way, he was free to make sure we all knew he was a liar. probably didn't feel good about himself until he got that one out of the way.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:34 PM   #41
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the NFL isn't biased against mobile QB's. most mobile QB's are more runners than QB's.
it's rare to find a Vick,Newton,RGIII,Kaepernick,Wilson, even Luck is a pretty mobile QB.
but they're all passers first and runners as a extra benefit.

i've said it before and i'll say it again, the running and guts can't be the primary for a successful NFL QB. you have to be good at playing the position and then have extra complimentary attributes.

Define "good" though.. I think people are way too quick to determine if someone is NFL caliber. Tebow was so dominant physically he didn't have to refine his game to dominate.

Does that mean he couldn't though?

This is why I think everyone is nuts to jump to conclusions with him, especially, and many of these athletic QBs. Especially if they have the kind of work ethic and competitive drive Tebow does. You can teach the other things.. you can't teach great intangibles.

Now, if Tebow had been playing in a pro style offense for 4 years of college and all through his development and didn't dominate and didn't have NFL fundamentals then I could see the point... but Tebow hasn't even scratched the surface of what he is capable of yet.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:53 PM   #42
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Define "good" though.. I think people are way too quick to determine if someone is NFL caliber. Tebow was so dominant physically he didn't have to refine his game to dominate.

Does that mean he couldn't though?

This is why I think everyone is nuts to jump to conclusions with him, especially, and many of these athletic QBs. Especially if they have the kind of work ethic and competitive drive Tebow does. You can teach the other things.. you can't teach great intangibles.

Now, if Tebow had been playing in a pro style offense for 4 years of college and all through his development and didn't dominate and didn't have NFL fundamentals then I could see the point... but Tebow hasn't even scratched the surface of what he is capable of yet.
Tebow could have played in a pro-style offense in college, he went to Florida because he loved Meyer's system and felt it fit him perfectly.
when they did bring in a pro-style a pro-style QB coach he couldn't help him refine his skills at all.

people are instinctual, their instincts rarely if ever changed and when put in a corner they always revert back to what is natural to them.
Tebow cannot handle a complex offensive system and be more of a traditional QB. he's been in the league three years and despite his protests that he only ran the system he was asked to do he has not improved his QB skills.

his pocket presence is horrid, his throwing motion is horrendous, his timing and rhythm throwing is just laughable and instead of getting a QB guru and breaking himself down and building it up from scratch he continues to be the same old Tebow that played at Florida. that worked at Florida, not going to work over the long term in the NFL when team know exactly what you can't do and stop you.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:47 AM   #43
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Tebow could have played in a pro-style offense in college, he went to Florida because he loved Meyer's system and felt it fit him perfectly.
If you watch the special on Tebow in highschool you see that he wanted to go to Alabama as much if not more than Florida. I think this is why the decision was so difficult. He knew that by going to Florida and not learning a pro style, which he never had experience with, that he would have to go through this now. I think if his family didn't go to Florida he would have went to Bama and gotten pro training from Mike Shula. Though at this time Alex Smith had gone #1 and hadn't been deemed a bust yet either. Also note that Mike Shula was Cam Newton's QB coach the past 2 seasons.. so we get an idea what he could have done for Tebow especially with Tebow's work ethic.


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when they did bring in a pro-style a pro-style QB coach he couldn't help him refine his skills at all.
Urban Meyer prevented Loeffler from making drastic changes.. he said "don't screw him up" And you could tell Loeffler was terrified of doing that. They were competing for a championship that year. But also remember that the Gatoprs had a weak running game. They had a weak running game around Tebow his entire time there. They were explosive but finesse. It was Tebow's between the tackles running that opened things for them and his receivers. People don't realize it but Tebow had a weak line and runner compared to Cam at Auburn... Auburn was ideally suited for a run first QB. This was why Flordia let Cam go. That run game opened his passing. The Gators were the opposite. Teams dared the Gators to run rather than pass because their run game was weak and it allowed them to hit Tebow more and slow their passing game. This is why Tebow could not run a pro style in the SEC... impossible to do with a soft running game and weak oline. This is why he would have benefited by going to Alabama so much.

people are instinctual, their instincts rarely if ever changed and when put in a corner they always revert back to what is natural to them.
Tebow cannot handle a complex offensive system and be more of a traditional QB. he's been in the league three years and despite his protests that he only ran the system he was asked to do he has not improved his QB skills.

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his pocket presence is horrid, his throwing motion is horrendous, his timing and rhythm throwing is just laughable and instead of getting a QB guru and breaking himself down and building it up from scratch he continues to be the same old Tebow that played at Florida. that worked at Florida, not going to work over the long term in the NFL when team know exactly what you can't do and stop you.
Absolutely.. but think about it.. he dominated the SEC like no one in history as RAW as you could possibly imagine.. think about that. Tebow did more just off raw ability than Andrew Luck who was as polished as can be.. this is the point no one gets. It's why Tebow should be considered a diamond in the rough and the other guys cubic zirconia...

Also, he can win games playing his style.. it's been proven. He can slowly develop over time if anyone would give him the chance. They have given Cam 2 seasons to flush down the toilet and Tebow outplayed him on just as bad a team. But everyone ignores this.

The same thing happened in college. Cam spent his whole college career rebuilding his game for the NFL on the bench and in junior college while Tebow was dominating. Then went to a choice spot that was perfect for a run first QB while Tebow played in a finesse passing offense throwing the ball to win games and to take defensive pressure off him. Yet CAM was considered the better passer.. lol It's truly incredible how people get things completely backwards.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:05 AM   #44
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Here we go again with Macgruder. He still doesn't get it. Kelly wants a throwing QB who can run, not a running QB who can throw. And since Tebow can't throw he's neither.

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This misunderstands Kelly's attack. "I look for a quarterback who can run and not a running back who can throw. I want a quarterback who can beat you with his arm," Kelly explained at a coaches clinic in the spring of 2011, emphatically adding, "We are not a Tim Tebow type of quarterback team. I am not going to run my quarterback 20 times on power runs."
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...familiar-seems

I'm not sure Kelly could be any more clear about this...
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:10 AM   #45
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Here we go again with Macgruder. He still doesn't get it. Kelly wants a throwing QB who can run, not a running QB who can throw. And since Tebow can't throw he's neither.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...familiar-seems

I'm not sure Kelly could be any more clear about this...
Did you not read anything I just wrote? Tebow is a more proven passer than Cam at every level...

Kelly said in another piece he doesn't run his QBs like Tebow because none of them are the physical monsters he is.. He also didn't play in the SEC. We have seen what happened to his QBs facing SEC teams. If he was in the SEC and didn't have power runners as Florida didn't have them he would have to have a Tebow or scrap his offense like Meyer scrapped himself and went to another conference. He will likely find out the same thing in the NFL too if he doesn't realize it yet.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:30 AM   #46
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A couple of years from now, Tebow will be saving the souls of heathen Catholics in the Philippines and MacGruder will still be arguing that he's the most dominant QB who ever played in the NFL.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:37 AM   #47
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A couple of years from now, Tebow will be saving the souls of heathen Catholics in the Philippines and MacGruder will still be arguing that he's the most dominant QB who ever played in the NFL.
The really ironic part is that by then the league will be full of Tebow knock-offs... just like Cam, Locker, Kaep... but none of them will come close to what Tebow could have been in the NFL if used properly.

Have you ever seen a movie called The Right Stuff? Tebow = Chuck Yeager.. haha
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:02 AM   #48
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The really ironic part is that by then the league will be full of Tebow knock-offs... just like Cam, Locker, Kaep... but none of them will come close to what Tebow could have been in the NFL if used properly.

Have you ever seen a movie called The Right Stuff? Tebow = Chuck Yeager.. haha
Yeah. Chuck Yeager with 60/200 vision.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:41 AM   #49
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Tebow is a more proven passer than Cam at every level...
Where/how was this proven? And if it was, why is it that next year Cam Newton will once again be starting for the Carolina Panthers while Tim Tebow will likely be out of the league?
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:01 PM   #50
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Where/how was this proven? And if it was, why is it that next year Cam Newton will once again be starting for the Carolina Panthers while Tim Tebow will likely be out of the league?
Because Cam played in a easier offense in college... has a much better offense and coaching around him in the NFL... AND LOOKS like a NFL QB.

This is what people care about most.. how you look.. not how you actually play. Tebow doesn't care about that.. he cares about winning. Same thing with Orton.. Orton filled the stat sheet but like Cam put up a ton of turnovers. For some reason people ignore the turnovers and losses.. it's bizarre.

Let's put it this way.. imagine if you swapped teams... Imagine if Cam had to play under Fox.. Fox almost screwed up Peyton forcing him to run his slow down offense. You think he would let the turnover machine Cam loose. It's HARDER to play the way Tebow played under Fox and to be successful.
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