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Old 01-16-2013, 10:56 AM   #76
Bmore Manning
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The guy went from being a potential Top 10 selection at the beginning of the year to being a 2nd-3rd round draft projection. I respect Bmore's opinion, but I just don't see him going to a team that is going to have him playing press. He is going to have to be in the right scheme to succeed in the NFL. Best fit in the NFL is a zone heavy scheme. I still wouldn't be surprised if he is moved to FS either. He reminds me a lot of Sean Smith of the Dolphins.
Maybe his size, but he has ball skills and body control/ fluidity like Cromartie. He took too many chances this year, and like you said when he's on he's a top talent. The kid could be refined and his technique improved. He has played majority man to man, why is it hard to envision him learning to bump/jam at the line? And he's fast.. I'm not sure why he couldn't learn these simple techniques..? Give me the value pick of Amerson in the second even third round, when he has top 10 skill written all over him. His ceiling is much much higher.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:03 PM   #77
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Maybe his size, but he has ball skills and body control/ fluidity like Cromartie. He took too many chances this year, and like you said when he's on he's a top talent. The kid could be refined and his technique improved. He has played majority man to man, why is it hard to envision him learning to bump/jam at the line? And he's fast.. I'm not sure why he couldn't learn these simple techniques..? Give me the value pick of Amerson in the second even third round, when he has top 10 skill written all over him. His ceiling is much much higher.
Its funny, cause i also liken him to Sean Smith.
Its Rhodes/Minter or bust in the 1st round.

Amerson will be there in round 2.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:07 PM   #78
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Maybe his size, but he has ball skills and body control/ fluidity like Cromartie. He took too many chances this year, and like you said when he's on he's a top talent. The kid could be refined and his technique improved. He has played majority man to man, why is it hard to envision him learning to bump/jam at the line? And he's fast.. I'm not sure why he couldn't learn these simple techniques..? Give me the value pick of Amerson in the second even third round, when he has top 10 skill written all over him. His ceiling is much much higher.
I wouldn't say that he has played a majority of his snaps man to man given Mike Archer and the roots of his defense. He has always been a zone guy, and when Amerson does play in man coverage, it's off-man seven yards down the field so he can spy the QB and make his read and go for the ball. I think you are getting enamored with his long and lengthy frame thinking that shows he can have the grit and toughness to press. I just don't see him doing that at NC State (I'm an FSU and ACC fan.)

If a team takes Amerson pretty high, I bet they are going to put him at safety. Many reports are already coming out that teams saying that is their primary interest in him. If he doesn't play FS, he is going to play in a zone heavy defense where he can do what he does best. As stated before, he doesn't have the recovery speed necessary to effectively be a press-man guy. I would be shocked if he ran under a 4.5.

Not somebody I'm willing to throw a risk down on.

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Old 01-16-2013, 12:17 PM   #79
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Its funny, cause i also liken him to Sean Smith.
Its Rhodes/Minter or bust in the 1st round.

Amerson will be there in round 2.
Its really funny to me cause he plays nothing like him, just similar body type.
Sean Smith has bad to average ball skills..

I'm not advocating drafting Amerson in the first. Does it come off or sound like that? Rather I'm advocating drafting value, and taking a player with top ten upside even though he's second round value, if and when he's available say in the second, definitely in the third!
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:24 PM   #80
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Pretty much ever "?" Smith had coming out of Utah is the same with Amerson at N.C. State, and they both excelled in reads off the zone. They are very similar.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:25 PM   #81
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I wouldn't say that he has played a majority of his snaps man to man given Mike Archer and the roots of his defense. He has always been a zone guy, and when Amerson does play in man coverage, it's off-man seven yards down the field so he can spy the QB and make his read and go for the ball. I think you are getting enamored with his long and lengthy frame thinking that shows he can have the grit and toughness to press. I just don't see him doing that at NC State (I'm an FSU and ACC fan.)

If a team takes Amerson pretty high, I bet they are going to put him at safety. Many reports are already coming out that teams saying that is their primary interest in him. If he doesn't play FS, he is going to play in a zone heavy defense where he can do what he does best. As stated before, he doesn't have the recovery speed necessary to effectively be a press-man guy. I would be shocked if he ran under a 4.5.

Not somebody I'm willing to throw a risk down on.
Req, I live in ACC territory.. I have also watched him. Yes his man to man was not at the LOS. Let's just agree to disagree with him. I'm not sure I would like him at FS I'm not sure he brings that type of physicality to the position.

I am enamored with his ball skills and the flashes of being a stud that he has shown, but again I believe in drafting for value. I would consider him in the second and would no doubt pull the trigger if he falls to the third. I think he can be refined.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:38 PM   #82
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Well, Denver has only six picks this draft, one in each round except the Bunkley trade removes a sixth rounder, so not a lot to work with there (also late in each round).

I figure the FO sees the same things you guys do with respect to MLB, RB, OL, DT, safety.

I doubt they'll go big-money FA anywhere, that doesn't seem to fit the past pattern. Since Fox and Elway got here they've been picking guys off other team's practice squads and mid-tier FA's. What we want and what they do are two different things. Guys like Melton don't seem to fit the team philosopy of value FA signings. If they can get a low-ball offer in for Knighton, I could see that happening. Rev and other guys have been hollering for years to sign big-money longterm contract FA's like Jonathan Joseph, Mebane, Cofield, etc. But they were apparently too much big-money/longterm contract for the Broncos.

They probably like most of their starters for another year, and like their draftees from last year in Bolden, Blake, Trevathan. Probably counting on Walton coming back strong, and Kuper.

So I figure in the draft it will be:
1) MLB
2) RB
3) BPA among OL/DT/safety
4) BPA WR/RB
5) BPA whatever
7) BPA of course

No telling what tradeups/tradedowns they'll do. They've shown if the guys they wanted aren't there, they will trade down. And vice-versa.

Trading down from #28 might be a good thing if the MLB they want isn't there (and I'm assuming they even want a MLB). They might want to roll the dice on DJ Williams. Having extra draft picks in a deep draft might be the way to go, it's not like they have extra picks early.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:51 PM   #83
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Its really funny to me cause he plays nothing like him, just similar body type.
Sean Smith has bad to average ball skills..

I'm not advocating drafting Amerson in the first. Does it come off or sound like that? Rather I'm advocating drafting value, and taking a player with top ten upside even though he's second round value, if and when he's available say in the second, definitely in the third!
Oh, if Amerson is there in the 2nd, man i would hope they would jump all over him. Unless Rhodes was already the pick in the 1st.

I still say for DEN its Minter/Rhodes in the 1st. Find a way to get one of em.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:58 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
Well, Denver has only six picks this draft, one in each round except the Bunkley trade removes a sixth rounder, so not a lot to work with there (also late in each round).

I figure the FO sees the same things you guys do with respect to MLB, RB, OL, DT, safety.

I doubt they'll go big-money FA anywhere, that doesn't seem to fit the past pattern. Since Fox and Elway got here they've been picking guys off other team's practice squads and mid-tier FA's. What we want and what they do are two different things. Guys like Melton don't seem to fit the team philosopy of value FA signings. If they can get a low-ball offer in for Knighton, I could see that happening. Rev and other guys have been hollering for years to sign big-money longterm contract FA's like Jonathan Joseph, Mebane, Cofield, etc. But they were apparently too much big-money/longterm contract for the Broncos.

They probably like most of their starters for another year, and like their draftees from last year in Bolden, Blake, Trevathan. Probably counting on Walton coming back strong, and Kuper.

So I figure in the draft it will be:
1) MLB
2) RB
3) BPA among OL/DT/safety
4) BPA WR/RB
5) BPA whatever
7) BPA of course

No telling what tradeups/tradedowns they'll do. They've shown if the guys they wanted aren't there, they will trade down. And vice-versa.

Trading down from #28 might be a good thing if the MLB they want isn't there (and I'm assuming they even want a MLB). They might want to roll the dice on DJ Williams. Having extra draft picks in a deep draft might be the way to go, it's not like they have extra picks early.
Well thought out. Reasonable. Probably true. And boring.

Now, let me tell you how we trade up for Lotulelei!.......
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:02 PM   #85
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Some good thoughts Drek and excellent effort.


RE: DTs

Over the last few years, we've seemed to have put a soft cap at DT in the salary range of 2.5 million. A lot of the big name DT Free Agents we chased commented that we only offered them a contract in that range, while most of them went on to sign for 5 million per year.

A large reason for that is our heavy rotation at DT. We rotate three guys pretty evenly. Bannan (592 Snaps), Vickerson (537), Unrein (414). For comparison, Wolfe and Dumervil played over a 1000 snaps each. So, we're only playing our DTs about 50% of the time.

For this reason, I don't see us spending high draft resources on the position (1st or 2nd round pick) and I can't imagine we will have any more luck this season signing DTs than we've had in the past. Even a guy like Knighton will command more than 2.5 million. And I think Vickerson might even price himself out of our range.

I expect we'll re-sign Bannan, keep Unrein, and just re-sign and promote Siliga. Those will be our 3 DTs on game day. (Wolfe and Jackson not withstanding). And I think we'll be solid with that rotation. I do expect us to draft a DT in the mid-late rounds (AJ Francis?) that we can keep as a gameday inactive while we develop him similar to what we did with Siliga this year.



RE: RB

I don't see why we don't just keep Moreno. He and Hillman were very effective together this year. Moreno is pretty much identical to Joseph Addai. If anything, let McGahee go, and stick with the young guys. Don't see the need to burn a high draft pick here.


RE: O-Line

I think we're okay here, we just need depth. I remember what a healthy Kuper looks like, and Beadles is a quality OG. Our OTs are fine. Walton was playing excellent before he was injured.


RE: CB

Bailey is staying at CB. Harris is a stud. Carter was solid for a nickel. Bolden is developing. We have room for depth.


RE: Safety

Agree that Moore is a quality FS despite his gaffe. And I think Adams was solid at SS. We do need a young Safety developing at SS as Carter can't be relied upon, while Leonhard and Bruton are FAs that probably won't be back. I'd expect the SS to start in the 2014 season. I'm thinking an early round draft pick.



I'd list our biggest needs as:

1) MLB
2) SS
3) WR
4) DT
5) OL Depth
6) CB Depth
7) WR Depth
MUG good thoughts.

Because John and for that matter Josh brought in some quality players in the draft and via UFA, we now have ony a few spots that need real attention.

IMO we are getting real close to being able to draft BPA regardless of position of need.. While I grant MLB is an issue or has been since Wilson retired I hope we will not reach for the 4th best if we draft one in the first.

While I used to subscribe doing this mostly it was because we desperately needed some positions, especially on defense at any spot not manned by Champ.

As for your thoughts on DT. Because of their size and our altitude I think the prudent resting of them is a great idea. I only hope that they can even put on a few more pounds each for the upcoming season as IMO that will only help the run game as well as allow them to collapse the pocket a tad more than they do today.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:12 PM   #86
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Oh, if Amerson is there in the 2nd, man i would hope they would jump all over him. Unless Rhodes was already the pick in the 1st.

I still say for DEN its Minter/Rhodes in the 1st. Find a way to get one of em.
I think they may both be gone.. They are both very talented players
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:36 PM   #87
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I think they may both be gone.. They are both very talented players
Dude, theres only 27 picks ahead of us. Cmon, man.

1. Kansas City (2-14)-OT Luke Joeckel Texas A&M
2. Jacksonville (2-14)-DT Star Lotulelei Utah
3. Oakland (4-12)-DE Bjoern Warner Florida State
4. Philadelphia (4-12)-CB Dee Milliner Alabama
5. Detroit (4-12)-DE Damontre Moore Texas A&M
6. Cleveland (5-11)-OLB Jarvis Jones Georgia
7. Arizona (5-11)-QB Geno Smith West Virginia
8. Buffalo (6-10)-DE Dion Jordon Oregon
9. New York Jets (6-10)-OLB Barkevious Mingo LSU
10. Tennessee (6-10)-OG Chance Warmack Alabama
11. San Diego (7-9)-NT Johnathan Hankins Ohio State
12. Miami (7-9)-WR Cordarrelle Patterson Tennessee
13. Tampa Bay (7-9)-CB Johnthan Banks Mississippi State
14. Carolina (7-9)-DT Sheldon Richardson Missouri
15. New Orleans (7-9)-DE Sam Montgomery LSU
16. St. Louis (7-8-1)-OT Erik Fisher Central Michigan
17. Pittsburgh (8-8)-ILB Manti Te’o Notre Dame
18. Dallas (8-8)-DE Ezekiel Ansah BYU
19. New York Giants (9-7)-ILB Alec Olgletree Georgia
20. Chicago (10-6)-TE Dion Sims Michigan State
21. Cincinnati* (10-6)-ILB Kevin Minter LSU
22. St. Louis-Was(10-6)-WR Keenan Allen California
23. Minnesota* (10-6)-WR Terrance Williams Baylor
24. Indianapolis* (11-5)-G/T Barrett Jones Alabama
25. Seattle* (11-5)-OT D.J. Fluker Alabama
26. Green Bay* (11-5)-S Matt Elam Florida
27. Houston* (12-4)-WR DeAndre Hopkins Clemson
28. Denver* (13-3)-CB Xavier Rhodes Florida State


And 2 CBs still go ahead of Rhodes.
Unfortunately Minter is snagged by CIN.
I think MIN has too much need at WR to take Rhodes there.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:45 PM   #88
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I mocked Minter to us and got that trend rolling! It's not that I wouldn't want him or Rhodes, but they are both really good players, I see Rhodes being available..
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:49 PM   #89
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Typed this up the morning after the playoff game, held off on posting it until my angst regarding the loss cleared, and then re-read it. Still think it's pretty worthwhile so now i'm posting it (hence why I refer to "last night's game" frequently).

So here's the road map to fixing this team's problems, as I see them.

Offense

Fact #1 Knowshon Moreno was the straw that stirred the drink on offense.

This is not because Moreno is a great player, he's pretty good but has his issues. No, this is because Moreno's skill set fits a Peyton Manning offense. He's become a solid north/south runner who gets into his cuts quickly and gets you consistent positive yardage. Hillman and Hester are all or nothing backs where Hillman either gives you a nice 5-10 yard run or a gain of zero and Hester either falls forward for 3 or falls on his face for zero. Moreno consistently moves the ball forward and converts 3rd and shorts. This is important, but it's also something McGahee could do.

Moreno also steps up big in pass pro, where we saw our other RBs all fail us at some point last night. Hillman is simply too small, Hester is not a running threat so simply putting him back there on anything but short yardage telegraphs pass and effectively chums the waters, and Ball outright misses assignments. McGahee also did this well.

Where Moreno and McGahee deviate is when asked to catch the ball. Consider Moreno's touchdown catch. Would anyone ever expect McGahee to pull that ball in? Hell, would anyone ever expect McGahee to put that stutter step on a defender that Moreno used to separate? I sure has hell wouldn't. Moreno as a check down and extra receiving threat was huge for this offense and is something we need to recognize and build on in any way possible.

Fact #2 This OL is too shallow and too weak to handle the best DLs in the league. Clady get bent back on top of Manning repeatedly, and Beadles, Koppen, etc. get zero push against Ngata and Kemoatu in the run game. Orlando Franklin was probably our best OL last night and Kruger was whipping him around the edge with regularity.

A 100% Kuper would be a slight help, but I doubt enough to turn the tide. While Koppen was replacing JD Walton I also think we all agree that Koppen played better than we'd ever expect Walton to.

This OL lacks depth and power. We couldn't run the ball with AD taking hand offs with the kind of blocking this OL sets up.

Defense

Fact #1 1. We STILL can't stop even average TEs. This is a failure by both our safeties and our linebackers. None of our safeties or LBs are good in man coverage at all, and Moore is probably the best in zone despite his **** up in last night's game. This is unacceptable. Q. Carter was hands down our best man cover guy between both groups last year, but now had arthroscopic knee surgery on a leg with an already bum hamstring. He might not be the same player when he comes back.

Fact #2 Our pass rush comes entirely from the edges, not a single person on this team can generate pressure up the middle. Opposing QBs far too often have a pocket to step into and make clean throws regardless of what our edge rushers do. This is the end result of us targeting a big time DT year after year in FA but failing to sign them. In the spring of 2011 we chased Brandon Mebane but let him return to Seattle for a very reasonable offer, and in spring of 2012 we did the same with Paul Soliai. This doesn't even go into the fact that we weren't even in on Barry Cofield, who left the Giants and signed with the Skins in 2011. We need a mauler in the middle who pushes the pocket. He doesn't need to get sacks, just deform the pocket and be stout against the run. Doom and Miller will do the rest.

Fact #3 Champ is no longer an elite corner. He simply couldn't run with Smith. No excuses. He went against one of the game's fastest wide outs and he got ran off the field. He's still a good corner and will still give us great production against most teams in the regular season, but against playoff level competition he's a liability. Want proof? After seeing what Flacco and Smith did to him last night picture what it'd be like for us to play the Falcons with Champ on Julio Jones and Matt Ryan throwing the ball. Or worse, the Packers and any of their WRs against him with Rodgers. If Flacco was a more accurate QB the Ravens could have blown us out in regulation because of this.

So that's defense. Special teams weren't a problem at all last night, other than Prater ****ing up his one field goal opportunity. But Prater is better than what we could replace him with so that is a case of rolling with it and hoping he matures. The leash on Prater has definitely gotten shorter, but it's still plenty long enough to not spend finite resources on a replacement.

Ok, so we've identified the major problems from a thematic standpoint, so how can we upgrade? Well first, what are our resources?

$18M in cap room, about $5M of that earmarked for rookie signings. We can clear another $17.75M with the following cuts:

DJ Williams has a cap number of $7.7M next year with only about $1.7M guaranteed.
Joe Mays has a cap number of $4.16M with only $160K of that guaranteed.
Mike Adams has a cap number of $1.75M, no guaranteed money.
Caleb Hanie has $1.25M in salary, none guaranteed.
Manny Ramirez has $715K, none guaranteed.
Andre Caldwell has a $1M cap number, only $100K guaranteed.
Jacob Hester has a $715K cap number, none guaranteed.
Julius Thomas has a $651 cap number with only $96K guarnateed and $96K of outstanding signing bonus money for 2014.
Willis McGahee has a $3M cap number with $500K guaranteed and $500K of outstanding signing bonus money for 2014.

So that's $30.75M after these cuts but minus the rookie money.

First, retaining our own guys:
Clady is the big one here. He's already turned down 5/$50M. The tag is $9.6M for OLs this year though, so worst case he gets tagged if he won't take a more reasonable extension than the rumored "more than Joe Thomas" demands. Lets just put him down at the $10M, knowing the team has all the leverage here. So that brings us down to $20.75M.

Carter and Colquitt are undrafted RFAs, so in order to protect them at all we're looking at $2M each. Reasonable and necessary, if a little pricey. Another $4M off the books, now at $16.75M.

At DT all three of Vickerson, Bannan, and Unrein are free agents. Unrein is an exclusive rights RFA, so we can give him $550K and call it good. Bannan signed here for $1M last year, I don't see him having much leverage to get a raise, so another $1M for him. Vickerson played well, but I don't think he'll find a massive market, he's a roll player. I'd say $2M and if he wanted more let him try to find it. So all total we're talking about $3.5M at DT. Brings us down to $13.25M.

Koppen is a free agent and only made $825K last year. He should definitely be brought back as he was a stabilizing influence on an OL that needs stability. I'd expect him to resign for something in the $1-$2M range, so we'll go with $1.5M as an average. That brings us down to $11.75M.

Bruton is likely to be retained for something in the area of $1M, same with Stokley. So that brings us down to ~$9.75M, and in my opinion basically wraps up the FAs we should really care about keeping.

Not very much money, but some renegotiation by Doom, Champ, Manning, etc. could buy us a decent bit more cap space. We'll see how that goes.

With that $9.75M to work with and our full allotment of draft picks this is the road map I'd outline for us:

1. Running Back.
I see a RB taylor made for this offense in the draft, his name is Stepfan Taylor from Stanford, currently projected as a late 2nd/early 3rd by most draft prognosticators. He's a well rounded three down back who can contribute in all phases of the Manning offense, much like Knowshon Moreno. He should offer a bit more explosiveness than Moreno and will be an ideal #2 behind him for a season or two before replacing him. Couple this with Hillman developing physically and we could have a good two back tandem of Taylor and Hillman for a long time going forward.

2. Offensive Line.
I'd love to draft one of the premier guards in this class, and Barrett Jones before his lisfranc was my top target with our first round pick. Unfortunately I just don't see the numbers adding up there, as the premier OGs likely go before our first round pick, Jones' health makes him a question mark we can't really afford to roll the dice on before round 3, and honestly, we need a guy we know can contribute right away. To me that means free agency. Obviously a late round OL should be included in the mix, but a quality 6th man needs to be acquired on the OL. To that end my personal preference would be signing Louis Vasquez away from the Chargers. He was a spread OL in college and is a better pass protector than run blocker, but has improved in that aspect of his game in the pros. Most importantly he's big and powerful. With the Chargers dropping both Smith and Turner there will likely be some front office transition and Vasquez isn't the kind of guy you put a tag on. For an AAV around $4-$5M we likely could lock up a 26 year old starting guard for a reasonable price. This would bump Beadles to the swing guard/tackle role, making him that 6th man I was talking about. If Vasquez can't be had then Donald Thomas from New England would be a solid alternative, competing with Beadles for the LG job while also providing another player with some experience at OC in a pinch.

3. Defensive Tackle.
We won't be in range to grab a standout DT in the draft and also will not have the money to go after a Henry Melton. That's ok because I see a perfect fit that will likely sign cheap on a "make good" deal. Terence Knighton of the Jacksonville Jaguars. Some off-field issues and freak injury problems have greatly depleted Knighton's value, including him losing his starting job in Jacksonville. They have a new GM and are likely once again changing coaches. This sounds like an excellent opportunity for Del Rio to recruit one of his former standouts, getting Knighton here on reasonable money to provide the 4-3 nose tackle this defense needs to take the next step. His salary would likely be quite reasonable since he needs to re-establish his value. If he does that and makes our roster he'd bump one of the other DTs off, making this more or less cap neutral as far as the final 53 man roster is concerned (what the cap number is based on).

4. Middle Linebacker.
To me this is where we go with our first round pick. Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, and Alec Ogeltree are all first round worthy MLBs and one is almost definitely going to be available for us in the first. If Te'o's lackluster championship game makes him slide to us then great, we're sitting pretty, otherwise I'd be more than happy with Alec Ogeltree, the former safety with elite athleticism and NFL ready coverage skills. He'd instantly improve our ability to handle opposing TEs.

5. Safety.
This is a two part solution. Step one, move Champ to safety, taking his declining speed from only above average back to elite status, step two is sign another corner to battle Carter for the #2 job opposite Harris. This leaves a safety depth chart of Champ, Rahim Moore (he's a solid player, he's coming back, quit hating on him for one play), Q. Carter, and Bruton. I like the looks of that. So that leads straight to...

6. Corner.
Ideal world Del Rio can get us a sweet deal on Derek Cox from Jacksonville. While oft-injured he's a standout when on the field. I don't see that happening though, he's likely looking at >$7M AAV and we'd have a hard time fitting that on the books. The alternative also comes from Jacksonville though, in the form of Rashean Mathis. A former standout at corner he wasn't quite up to par this season after his ACL tear in 2011. He's healthy now though and got stronger as the year went on. He's an older experienced veteran who would provide us a very solid base to only work up from at #2 corner if Carter takes the next step forward. This way worst case scenario Mathis is #2, Carter is #3, and Omar Boldin is #4. Solid group. Add another mid to late round corner and we should be doing ok here.

So that's a road map I'd like to see the team shoot for. Use the available cash to splash the pot in stealing a division rival's best young OL, fixing one of our weaknesses while creating one for them, add even moderate draft luck and we can hit needs while still going BPA in rounds 1 and 2, then fill out the other immediate needs with low cost veteran signings that Del Rio should have some strong appeal to.

I agree with just about everything here even if not 100% with everything you wrote about KM.

1) RB's, we need to seriously upgrade the RB's if not then Elway flat out lied about protecting PM with the run game. McGahee can't finish a season without injury, KM is the same thing, when counted on they are not there, I understand about there is never a good time to get injured (I have been through it personally) but after a couple years it is a trend you cannot ignore. Not sure who is available from a FA position. I wonder if we don't look at a trade or make RB a priority (doesn't have to be 1st round, just that they id talent) in the draft. Hester needs to be moved to FB or cut, he is terrible as a runner, I don't think he can catch well, I don't remember him catching anything. It is a shame we didn't get Tollbert when he was out there, I know he was expensive but he would have been nice to have after KM went down.

2) OL - I don't think it is as big a priority unless Koppen doesn't resign. I think they should draft a C of the future, someone to groom and keep the heat on Walton. Maybe Walton progresses this offseason or learned after sitting behind an All Pro? The staff knows what they have and if they need to draft a C then they will do so.

I would certainly keep Ramieriz(sp?) around for quality depth but maybe see if duh bears would trade for him, he is way better than they have now if we can get some decent picks for him we could move up on draft day. He is nice to have considering Kuper came back from 2 tough injuries.

Clady needs to be resigned ASAP.

3) I totally agree we need a DT who can take on double teams and push the pocket. I like the fact that Wolf played the entire season and he did get better but he cannot take on double teams and push the middle of the pocket. I would let Vickerson and Bannan go, Vickerson is slightly above avg but we need to upgrade him. Melton is asking alot but I would love to see if they could find a way to get him. I don't want to keep being cheap at this position. In the offseason after the Jags loss in 1996(Jan 97 actually) Shanny went out and got Neil Smith, I sure hope Elway follows suit only this time getting the best DT on the market.

4) We ABSOLUTELY need to upgrade MLB! Mays should be outright cut. The only way I keep DJ around is if he renegotiates. DJ didn't do anything after coming back, he struggled to get on the field, the staff doesn't seem to have much faith in him. I think he is gone unless he takes a large paycut. DJ is good depth just not at what we are paying him now. I think we should find a way to move up in the 1st round of the draft and get the best MLB on the board. I don't know if it is Teo but I like what John sees in LB's and I think he can find us a good one. Trevathan and Irving saw the field some this year, I just don't know if either can move to the middle and be the force we need, Johnson seems more like a ST guy.


5) Now that we fired our Secondary coach I doubt they go after a big time FA Safety, I am guessing we stay the course with what we have. I would love to let Adams walk and find a better Vet to upgrade there. We should at least draft a Safety to compete in TC but I think the core group will be back.

I also don't think Champ was beaten as bad as it looked, I wonder if he wasn't expecting a safety being there to redirect Smith on the 1st TD, he was in better coverage (though behind Smith) on the 2nd TD that was a Jump Ball, again Champ was all alone as he was on the long Incompletion Smith got a step on. I really think this is why the backs coach was let go, not just Moores Michael Dean Perry moment.

6) With a new DB coach I like our depth here, Porter is likely gone barring some miracle, but Harris and Carter played well all year, Champ is still a top 5 CB, one bad game does not make him trash. With some better safety play Champ is fine. Corner always seems to be a position we always draft, I expect the same thing this year. If they can find a cheap quality Vet for depth then great, I think a Slot WR is more important than CB. Plus if we had better DT and MLB play QB's wouldn't have all that time to chuck the ball 70 yards downfield.


I sure hope they add a FB and run more I formation sets I really think having a FB opening holes would benefit KM and Hillman, the pulling guards did get a push but the backs are not into or though those holes quick enough. You can still run a power scheme with a FB. Those shotgun zone runs require a stout OL and take a lot of time to run, the single back has to make too many quick decisions and needs to be able to see everything. Put a FB back there, use a pistol formation if they want but give the backs a lead blocker from out of the backfield.

Last edited by broncosteven; 01-16-2013 at 01:52 PM..
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:01 PM   #90
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Dude, theres only 27 picks ahead of us. Cmon, man.

1. Kansas City (2-14)-OT Luke Joeckel Texas A&M
2. Jacksonville (2-14)-DT Star Lotulelei Utah
3. Oakland (4-12)-DE Bjoern Warner Florida State
4. Philadelphia (4-12)-CB Dee Milliner Alabama
5. Detroit (4-12)-DE Damontre Moore Texas A&M
6. Cleveland (5-11)-OLB Jarvis Jones Georgia
7. Arizona (5-11)-QB Geno Smith West Virginia
8. Buffalo (6-10)-DE Dion Jordon Oregon
9. New York Jets (6-10)-OLB Barkevious Mingo LSU
10. Tennessee (6-10)-OG Chance Warmack Alabama
11. San Diego (7-9)-NT Johnathan Hankins Ohio State
12. Miami (7-9)-WR Cordarrelle Patterson Tennessee
13. Tampa Bay (7-9)-CB Johnthan Banks Mississippi State
14. Carolina (7-9)-DT Sheldon Richardson Missouri
15. New Orleans (7-9)-DE Sam Montgomery LSU
16. St. Louis (7-8-1)-OT Erik Fisher Central Michigan
17. Pittsburgh (8-8)-ILB Manti Te’o Notre Dame
18. Dallas (8-8)-DE Ezekiel Ansah BYU
19. New York Giants (9-7)-ILB Alec Olgletree Georgia
20. Chicago (10-6)-TE Dion Sims Michigan State
21. Cincinnati* (10-6)-ILB Kevin Minter LSU
22. St. Louis-Was(10-6)-WR Keenan Allen California
23. Minnesota* (10-6)-WR Terrance Williams Baylor
24. Indianapolis* (11-5)-G/T Barrett Jones Alabama
25. Seattle* (11-5)-OT D.J. Fluker Alabama
26. Green Bay* (11-5)-S Matt Elam Florida
27. Houston* (12-4)-WR DeAndre Hopkins Clemson
28. Denver* (13-3)-CB Xavier Rhodes Florida State


And 2 CBs still go ahead of Rhodes.
Unfortunately Minter is snagged by CIN.
I think MIN has too much need at WR to take Rhodes there.
yep, I doubt Minter, Ogletree or Te'o will be around when the Broncos pick. And depending on the combine, I'm not sure Rhodes will be around either leaving a player like Barrett Jones or a WR as more of a possibility. Broncos just have to take BPA.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:05 PM   #91
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Well thought out. Reasonable. Probably true. And boring.

Now, let me tell you how we trade up for Lotulelei!.......
Ab-so-lutelelei!
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:26 PM   #92
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Dude, theres only 27 picks ahead of us. Cmon, man.

1. Kansas City (2-14)-OT Luke Joeckel Texas A&M
2. Jacksonville (2-14)-DT Star Lotulelei Utah
3. Oakland (4-12)-DE Bjoern Warner Florida State
4. Philadelphia (4-12)-CB Dee Milliner Alabama
5. Detroit (4-12)-DE Damontre Moore Texas A&M
6. Cleveland (5-11)-OLB Jarvis Jones Georgia
7. Arizona (5-11)-QB Geno Smith West Virginia
8. Buffalo (6-10)-DE Dion Jordon Oregon
9. New York Jets (6-10)-OLB Barkevious Mingo LSU
10. Tennessee (6-10)-OG Chance Warmack Alabama
11. San Diego (7-9)-NT Johnathan Hankins Ohio State
12. Miami (7-9)-WR Cordarrelle Patterson Tennessee
13. Tampa Bay (7-9)-CB Johnthan Banks Mississippi State
14. Carolina (7-9)-DT Sheldon Richardson Missouri
15. New Orleans (7-9)-DE Sam Montgomery LSU
16. St. Louis (7-8-1)-OT Erik Fisher Central Michigan
17. Pittsburgh (8-8)-ILB Manti Te’o Notre Dame
18. Dallas (8-8)-DE Ezekiel Ansah BYU
19. New York Giants (9-7)-ILB Alec Olgletree Georgia
20. Chicago (10-6)-TE Dion Sims Michigan State
21. Cincinnati* (10-6)-ILB Kevin Minter LSU
22. St. Louis-Was(10-6)-WR Keenan Allen California
23. Minnesota* (10-6)-WR Terrance Williams Baylor
24. Indianapolis* (11-5)-G/T Barrett Jones Alabama
25. Seattle* (11-5)-OT D.J. Fluker Alabama
26. Green Bay* (11-5)-S Matt Elam Florida
27. Houston* (12-4)-WR DeAndre Hopkins Clemson
28. Denver* (13-3)-CB Xavier Rhodes Florida State


And 2 CBs still go ahead of Rhodes.
Unfortunately Minter is snagged by CIN.
I think MIN has too much need at WR to take Rhodes there.
I thought Cincy liked their current linebackers?
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:33 PM   #93
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Well, Denver has only six picks this draft, one in each round except the Bunkley trade removes a sixth rounder, so not a lot to work with there (also late in each round).

I figure the FO sees the same things you guys do with respect to MLB, RB, OL, DT, safety.

I doubt they'll go big-money FA anywhere, that doesn't seem to fit the past pattern. Since Fox and Elway got here they've been picking guys off other team's practice squads and mid-tier FA's. What we want and what they do are two different things. Guys like Melton don't seem to fit the team philosopy of value FA signings. If they can get a low-ball offer in for Knighton, I could see that happening. Rev and other guys have been hollering for years to sign big-money longterm contract FA's like Jonathan Joseph, Mebane, Cofield, etc. But they were apparently too much big-money/longterm contract for the Broncos.

They probably like most of their starters for another year, and like their draftees from last year in Bolden, Blake, Trevathan. Probably counting on Walton coming back strong, and Kuper.

So I figure in the draft it will be:
1) MLB
2) RB
3) BPA among OL/DT/safety
4) BPA WR/RB
5) BPA whatever
7) BPA of course

No telling what tradeups/tradedowns they'll do. They've shown if the guys they wanted aren't there, they will trade down. And vice-versa.

Trading down from #28 might be a good thing if the MLB they want isn't there (and I'm assuming they even want a MLB). They might want to roll the dice on DJ Williams. Having extra draft picks in a deep draft might be the way to go, it's not like they have extra picks early.
Finally someone not DREAMing about players that are not going to happen.

So far as you said John is not going after other teams mistakes, he is looking for potential of young kids from their PS squad and older rejects for spot duty and making hay in the draft, as well as UDFAs.

Building a very good foundation for the LONG Term success of the team.

Good,post
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:38 PM   #94
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I thought Cincy liked their current linebackers?
CIN either takes Minter or Reid or Elam.
The fan base is screaming to take a FS, and they have not been really keen on how Rey Rey panned out so far, so Minter is a big upgrade there too.
Your thinking of Burfict. CIN has 5! LBs that are FA's!!!
Vincent Rey – CIN – (RFA)
Thomas Howard – CIN
Manny Lawson – CIN
Rey Maualuga – CIN
Dan Skuta – CIN

And i am not sure what their salary cap is, but they have not been real happy with Rey Maualuga at MLB.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:52 PM   #95
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CIN either takes Minter or Reid or Elam.
The fan base is screaming to take a FS, and they have not been really keen on how Rey Rey panned out so far, so Minter is a big upgrade there too.
Your thinking of Burfict. CIN has 5! LBs that are FA's!!!
Vincent Rey – CIN – (RFA)
Thomas Howard – CIN
Manny Lawson – CIN
Rey Maualuga – CIN
Dan Skuta – CIN

And i am not sure what their salary cap is, but they have not been real happy with Rey Maualuga at MLB.
$55 Million in cap room.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:55 PM   #96
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$55 Million in cap room.
Great.
Hopefully they manage to do what they always do and waste it.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:58 PM   #97
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Finally someone not DREAMing about players that are not going to happen.

So far as you said John is not going after other teams mistakes, he is looking for potential of young kids from their PS squad and older rejects for spot duty and making hay in the draft, as well as UDFAs.

Building a very good foundation for the LONG Term success of the team.

Good,post
Could you even name one player I called for that was "dreaming"
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:59 PM   #98
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Great.
Hopefully they manage to do what they always do and waste it.
They will be resigning their own first and foremost, extending others, and maybe they go after a few players.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:59 PM   #99
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Finally someone not DREAMing about players that are not going to happen.

So far as you said John is not going after other teams mistakes, he is looking for potential of young kids from their PS squad and older rejects for spot duty and making hay in the draft, as well as UDFAs.

Building a very good foundation for the LONG Term success of the team.

Good,post
Well they did throw a ton of money at Manning last year, he wasn't on anyone's PS.

I could see them going after 1 big name if they feel the need to, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to try to build a team for the future when PM's clock is ticking.

Melton would make the whole D better and a quality proven RB would make the O better. They are not building a team for Ossweiler.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:44 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by socalorado View Post
CIN either takes Minter or Reid or Elam.
The fan base is screaming to take a FS, and they have not been really keen on how Rey Rey panned out so far, so Minter is a big upgrade there too.
Your thinking of Burfict. CIN has 5! LBs that are FA's!!!
Vincent Rey – CIN – (RFA)
Thomas Howard – CIN
Manny Lawson – CIN
Rey Maualuga – CIN
Dan Skuta – CIN

And i am not sure what their salary cap is, but they have not been real happy with Rey Maualuga at MLB.
Maybe they'll re-sign their guys. No telling what Mike Brown will do, but he's been loyal over the years. Minter seems like a guy that would fit in well on the Broncs, gotta hope for the best.
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