How To Build The 2013 Denver Broncos (I.E. **** Negativity, Lets Talk Football)

[BroncoInferno]

If we move Champ to safety, we better have a better answer to replace him than an old Mathis. Carter is an ideal guy to cover the slot, but his size makes him a liability on the outside against bigger guys. He can stick like glue to those bigger guys, but we saw people like Denario Alexander make plays against him on jump balls. And then behind Harris and Carter there's no one proven. So, even if Champ's not elite anymore, he's still a good player and I don't like our depth if he's at safety (Omar Bolden's a wildcard there, but he's done nothing yet to instill confidence in him as a long-term solution).

[R8R H8R]

Originally Posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan

Some good thoughts Drek and excellent effort.


RE: DTs

Over the last few years, we've seemed to have put a soft cap at DT in the salary range of 2.5 million. A lot of the big name DT Free Agents we chased commented that we only offered them a contract in that range, while most of them went on to sign for 5 million per year.

A large reason for that is our heavy rotation at DT. We rotate three guys pretty evenly. Bannan (592 Snaps), Vickerson (537), Unrein (414). For comparison, Wolfe and Dumervil played over a 1000 snaps each. So, we're only playing our DTs about 50% of the time.

For this reason, I don't see us spending high draft resources on the position (1st or 2nd round pick) and I can't imagine we will have any more luck this season signing DTs than we've had in the past. Even a guy like Knighton will command more than 2.5 million. And I think Vickerson might even price himself out of our range.

I expect we'll re-sign Bannan, keep Unrein, and just re-sign and promote Siliga. Those will be our 3 DTs on game day. (Wolfe and Jackson not withstanding). And I think we'll be solid with that rotation. I do expect us to draft a DT in the mid-late rounds (AJ Francis?) that we can keep as a gameday inactive while we develop him similar to what we did with Siliga this year.



RE: RB

I don't see why we don't just keep Moreno. He and Hillman were very effective together this year. Moreno is pretty much identical to Joseph Addai. If anything, let McGahee go, and stick with the young guys. Don't see the need to burn a high draft pick here.


RE: O-Line

I think we're okay here, we just need depth. I remember what a healthy Kuper looks like, and Beadles is a quality OG. Our OTs are fine. Walton was playing excellent before he was injured.


RE: CB

Bailey is staying at CB. Harris is a stud. Carter was solid for a nickel. Bolden is developing. We have room for depth.


RE: Safety

Agree that Moore is a quality FS despite his gaffe. And I think Adams was solid at SS. We do need a young Safety developing at SS as Carter can't be relied upon, while Leonhard and Bruton are FAs that probably won't be back. I'd expect the SS to start in the 2014 season. I'm thinking an early round draft pick.



I'd list our biggest needs as:

1) MLB
2) SS
3) WR
4) DT
5) OL Depth
6) CB Depth
7) WR Depth

Good post. I'd say, MLB is the only real glaring need, but I don't want them to reach. Btw, Al Wilson was taken with the last pick in the 1st round in 1999 and Ray Lewis was taken in the 20's IIRC, so a quality guy might be available where we draft.

Will be interesting if Elway would go for Welker in FA, but he has shown to lean towards the "value" guys, so I don't know.

I agree with you on keeping Moreno, but I would draft a guy if there is a good player that complements Knowshon & Hillman in the first 3 rounds. Moreno nor McGahee can be fully trusted to stay healthy for a season.

Since Champ isn't moving to safety then we need to address that either in draft or FA. I thought I read somewhere that this draft is safety heavy. If so, let's get a good one.

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

I'd like Percy Harvin, please.

Love the idea of Stepfan in the 2nd. Dude's a beast, and protects the ball. And if we're going to be a conservative team at the end of games, we've got to have a back (or collection of backs) who can move the sticks.

I'm in the No Champ To Safety Club. It's a good club to be in. Guy had one bad game.

Agree we have to solidify the interior of both lines. What's JDR's record with that as a head man in Jacksonville? Anyone?

[socalorado]

Some good thoughts Drek and excellent effort.
Also, nice post by MUG as well.

I agree with alot of Dreks assessment of the team.
RB
Keep Slowshon. He proved many of us wrong, and its not unheard of for RBs to get injured anymore, so DEN does need to go get another 1. And i have been advocating along with a few other posters to get Stepfan Taylor. The guy is "Taylor"ed for the DEN offense. Hes a well trained RB, that can run outside, inside, has power, speed, vision, and most importanly....he is an excellent blitz pickup blocking RB, who also has $$$$ hands, and catches outta the backfield all day.
Dump Ball and i hate to say it, McGahee. Hes just too old. Keep Hillman too. Hillman manned up in that game.
WR
I want Amendola, but looking at the FA $$$$, DEN would really have to restructure some contracts. Hes a better option than Welker. Younger, and with just as good hands. But Peyton would really have to restructure as would Champ, who should.
I think DEN looks to the later rounds for a slot/burner possibly.
TE.
Go with the guys you got, and cut Julius Thomas. I think Green has shown more upside and could be the real gem of the 2.
OL
Keep all of em currently except Ramirez, and try to sign G/C Brandon Moore UFA (NYJ)
Hes a 10 year vet, looking to win a SB, and he wants to play for a winner.
Mauler with good pass pro, he can play multiple positions along the line.

DL
I think MUG is right. JDL thinks he can get good production from mid-round DTs in the draft, and that where they will go. DT is deep thiss year, so many of the solid DTs may end up dropping a bit anyways.
Daniel McCullers*, DT, Tennessee Monster at 6-8 360. 4-5 round
Larry Black, Jr., DT, Indiana 6-3 310 4-5 round

Secondary

Sorry, i am in agreement with Drek Champ needs to go to #2 CB/hybrid position.
I think the Charles Woodson position of playing the opposing teams TEs and possesion recievers and playing man, up front at the LOS and using him as a
blitzer and as a nickel depending on down and team is what is needed for Champ. Hes would play less, and be able to be more physical and jump routes, which is something he cant do on burners anymore.
Harris is legit. Carter looked better than advertised because of the DL and that had alot to do with Champs success this year as well. Harris is very fast and has really good hands.
I think DEN needs to look at drating a new "shut down" corner in this draft or the next. Its just simply time.
Xavier Rhodes could be there at #28 amazingly and should be looked at hard by DEN.
Dude is a beast with Patrick Peterson size and ball skills, only a bit less refined.
Milliner and Banks are both considered to go ahead of Rhodes, so he just might be there. Amerson is a FS in the NFL. Hes got serious problems in press coverage, and will be looked at as a FS by NFL teams.

LB
1 name.
LSU's Kevin Minter. Look him up. Just the perfect 3 down, 4-3 MLB that can do it all.
I say its either him or Rhodes in the 1st.

As for FA, theres just no way Henry Melton is not gonna break the bank, so hes a pipe dream. And Amendola could be as well. Urlacher is a complete waste of $$$.
Realistically, I would hope DEN could free up enough cap room to sign 2 solid players that could really define the team going forward. Possibly 2 more cheap role players.
Heres my list of realistic guys with some cap room made
SS William Moore - (ATL) Yes, keep Rahim Moore at FS or Dashon Goldson (SF)
or SS Michael Mitchell (OAK) who is an underrated player, very solid safety.
G/C Brandon Moore – (NYJ) Dump Ramirez, let the rest fight it out for the starting spots. Or Louis Vasquez (SD) great find Drek!
DT Sedrick Ellis – (NO) Still very young, and could be a steal. Or DT Alan Branch (SEA)who could walk, but DEN would need to cough up some mid-level FA coin for him. He might just be worth it.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Off-man coverage or zone. You would rarely find any instance with Amerson playing press-man. If he lines up and gets beat on the press, he doesn't have the the speed to recover. Really good balls kills though. (And I meant free safety earlier) Should be a Top 64 player.

I said he has the attributes to play press man, that's technique that he can be taught. I said he played the vast majority of man to man. He reminds me of Cromartie with a similar style and physical attributes to his game. Being taught a jam to reroute a WR won't be an overly daunting task. I believe he can learn it.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

I said he has the attributes to play press man, that's technique that he can be taught. I said he played the vast majority of man to man. He reminds me of Cromartie with a similar style and physical attributes to his game. Being taught a jam to reroute a WR won't be an overly daunting task. I believe he can learn it.

I think Amerson will be looked at by NFL teams as a FS.
I would love for him to go ahead of Rhodes though!! !
So DEN can get RHodes!

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by socalorado

I think Amerson will be looked at by NFL teams as a FS.
I would love for him to go ahead of Rhodes though!! !
So DEN can get RHodes!

Not sure why you gave Drek credit for my idea of Champ being the #2 corner on our team.. He clearly said move him to safety..

Nobody's bashing Rhodes he's one of the 3-4 corners that I like from the draft. He's the only one I would touch in the first of those CBs I like, but I think your assessment is off on Amerson, and I called him a second round pick. I don't doubt he could play FS, but with the size of the WRs coming out in today's NFL, I would like him at CB. Also not sure where you got that he struggles in man to man, he was a stud in 2011, and he got overly aggressive this year and had numerous mental lapses on the field. But he's a kid, and his size, speed, and skill set cannot be taught, but make no mistake about it his game under the right coach and system can be refined!

[Old Dude]

Not crazy about cutting McGahee. If experience shows us anything, it's that we need depth at RB, and we specifically need someone who can act as a receiver and pick up blitzes. McGahee does both of these well and he's relatively cheap. Age is a factor, but I don't see him as more injury prone than Moreno.

If we cut someone, it's most likely Ball or Hester, though I'm still scratching my head as to why we moved up to draft Hillman in the first place.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

Not sure why you gave Drek credit for my idea of Champ being the #2 corner on our team.. He clearly said move him to safety..

Nobody's bashing Rhodes he's one of the 3-4 corners that I like from the draft. He's the only one I would touch in the first of those CBs I like, but I think your assessment is off on Amerson, and I called him a second round pick. I don't doubt he could play FS, but with the size of the WRs coming out in today's NFL, I would like him at CB. Also not sure where you got that he struggles in man to man, he was a stud in 2011, and he got overly aggressive this year and had numerous mental lapses on the field. But he's a kid, and his size, speed, and skill set cannot be taught, but make no mistake about it his game under the right coach and system can be refined!

I didnt know it was your idea. I think we all have been discussing it. I have him in the Charles Woodson role. But yes, covering possesion guy or TEs in some teams case, would be best IMHO.
As for Amerson and Rhodes, i guess Amerson could play CB, but he needs to work on his technique. He has all the other tools. Dude is a beast of a player.
I think Rhodes is a more pure CB in that he has really good press, man to man coverage skills and just a bit more of a better CB than Amerson.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by Old Dude

Not crazy about cutting McGahee. If experience shows us anything, it's that we need depth at RB, and we specifically need someone who can act as a receiver and pick up blitzes. McGahee does both of these well and he's relatively cheap. Age is a factor, but I don't see him as more injury prone than Moreno.

If we cut someone, it's most likely Ball or Hester, though I'm still scratching my head as to why we moved up to draft Hillman in the first place.

I am not huge on the move up in the draft either, but so far so good. Let the kid develop. Youngest player in the NFL.
As for Ball, i think we all expect him to be cut.
So if DEN drafted Taylor you got
Taylor
Moreno
Hillman
Hester
I think DEN has to keep Hester as a short yardage-goal line guy and let Magahee, as much as i hate it, walk.

[TheReverend]

Moreno, Hillman and McGahee are more than serviceable.

If you want to upgrade the running game, get a better lineman or two.

[Ray Finkle]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Moreno, Hillman and McGahee are more than serviceable.

If you want to upgrade the running game, get a better lineman or two.

who would you recommend replacing C and RG?

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Moreno, Hillman and McGahee are more than serviceable.

If you want to upgrade the running game, get a better lineman or two.

Nah. i would agree if Moreno had made it through that last game, but hes just not reliable at all. And Mcgahee is 31 years old, and cant be relied upon as a viable option either. Too many injuries, too mnay years and too much mileage on those 2 RBs alone.
Do you really think that DEN will not address the position in the offseason?

[2KBack]

Well done Drek, as usual.

I agree with your approach for the most part. Like the positions to address, even if we wouldn't necessarily fill them with the same players.

I see as the bigger areas that could use attention as: ILB, DL (even D end), SS, OL, RB

RB- I have been among the biggest supporters of Moreno, and I think Hill is likely going to a take a nice leap with an offseason to grow and show. I think WM is about done, his body is beat up, and the years keep on growing. I like Stepfan Taylor a lot, but I think we can go much later and get better value. I think Moreno should start as the man, but I like adding RB's every year (late round). We will need the depth. I've mention Rex Burkhead and Cameron MArshall before. Marshall has elite physical skills that were wasted by the Staffs of ASU (not unlike Brock), Burkhead is an underrated athlete and fits what we do perfectly. Unless they light up the combine, they can be had 4th round or later.

ILB- I think this needs to be our top priority, and I think there is talent available. For as strong as our D was overall, we had to be overly creative to hide our deficiency at MLB. We need a solid all around Mike, one with some cover skills so we can keep Miller attacking. Minter is my favorite, if Teo is there Great. I'm not against Ogletree assuming he can get stronger, he would already be a great coverage backer. I trust Del Rio with Linebackers, and I am sure they are aware they need one.

DL: Dline is a slow developing position, rookies rarely make major impacts. That is why I am really excited about Wolfe next season. If he takes the next step on a solid rookie campaign, we are already ahead of the game. Vickerson has grown to be dependable. I think there are a couple of mid tier FA's that could be upgrades. Mebane, Branch, Dorsey are all options. One of the Fatties from George could be good anchors. Will Sutton is another disruptive player that I would love....he is a DT/DE tweener (I'm sure Rev would love that). He could provide disruption anywhere on the line, giving us insane flexibility.

SS: I haven't given up on Moore, but I never liked Mike Adams. There are a couple nice options in the draft like Elam. I think we might want to consider Laron Landry from the jets. He was a scary playmaker with Washington before all the injuries. He showed himself to finally be healthy in 2012. I believe he is a FA, and would be a perfect secondary enforcer.

For all DB options I will bow to The Rev's suggestions though. He seems to watch DB's like I watch RB's. So I'm down with whoever he likes.

As for OL, I think we need it, but I can't spot a great one to save my life.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Ray Finkle

who would you recommend replacing C and RG?

Tricky spot... healthy Kuper is a big upgrade. Then there's Walton and Blake... can they make the same type of progress Beadles made from 2011-2012?

I'm firmly in the Minter in round 1 camp, so I'd look OL help with the 2nd pick... someone like Frederick from Wisconsin, Kyle Long from Oregon, Dallas Thomas, big ass Larry Warford maybe.

There's some pretty damn good linemen in this class.

[Ray Finkle]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Tricky spot... healthy Kuper is a big upgrade. Then there's Walton and Blake... can they make the same type of progress Beadles made from 2011-2012?

I'm firmly in the Minter in round 1 camp, so I'd look OL help with the 2nd pick... someone like Frederick from Wisconsin, Kyle Long from Oregon, Dallas Thomas, big ass Larry Warford maybe.

There's some pretty damn good linemen in this class.

Good analysis but I am afraid Kuper is never going to be the same. I hope Minter's available but don't see him getting past a team like the Steelers.

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by Old Dude

If we cut someone, it's most likely Ball or Hester, though I'm still scratching my head as to why we moved up to draft Hillman in the first place.

Because Elway has the power of foresight to know that Moreno would get injured, but somehow missed that Rahim would pull the ultimate doh!

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Ray Finkle

Good analysis but I am afraid Kuper is never going to be the same. I hope Minter's available but don't see him getting past a team like the Steelers.

It's possible and if so, Franklin could kick inside (in the event of getting Long or Thomas) or vice versa, or just plug in Warford. Warford's a mauler so he'd be a great fit at RG since Beadles already excels at our pulling G needs.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by socalorado

I didnt know it was your idea. I think we all have been discussing it. I have him in the Charles Woodson role. But yes, covering possesion guy or TEs in some teams case, would be best IMHO.
As for Amerson and Rhodes, i guess Amerson could play CB, but he needs to work on his technique. He has all the other tools. Dude is a beast of a player.
I think Rhodes is a more pure CB in that he has really good press, man to man coverage skills and just a bit more of a better CB than Amerson.

Rhodes is more polished and NFL ready, again I really like his game. But Amerson has such incredible physical attributes/ball skills, I think if he refines and improves technique he has more upside.

[Inkana7]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Tricky spot... healthy Kuper is a big upgrade. Then there's Walton and Blake... can they make the same type of progress Beadles made from 2011-2012?

I'm firmly in the Minter in round 1 camp, so I'd look OL help with the 2nd pick... someone like Frederick from Wisconsin, Kyle Long from Oregon, Dallas Thomas, big ass Larry Warford maybe.

There's some pretty damn good linemen in this class.

I agree with this assessment 100%. Minter's my guy at MLB, and I definitely think we should go O-Line in the 2nd. DL or DB (my preference) in round 3.

The only problem is that who do you replace on the offensive line? They're all solid enough to start for a lot of teams, and guys like Beadles and Walton have shown growth under Magazu (and then there's Blake,as you mentioned). But really no matter what, we need more quality O-Linemen, as there were times when I thought Manny Ramirez was going to get Peyton killed (and Kuper looked just as bad at times against BAL). That guy sucks.

On the defensive line, I really wouldn't mind rolling with Vickerson, Bannan (our best DT, IMO) Unrein and Wolfe another year. The things we do on the Front-7 seem pretty different than almost every other 4-3 front I've seen, and Wolfe seems to play more like a DT than a pure DE. If Ayers and Hunter progress, or we bring in another free agent DE, then I think a rotation of those 4 on the inside would work just fine.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Moreno, Hillman and McGahee are more than serviceable.

If you want to upgrade the running game, get a better lineman or two.

Are they? McGahee was dropping the ball on a weekly basis. Hillman has shown flashes but is being used wrong. Dive plays into the interior line are not plays he should run with regularity. Moreno stepped up his game the last half of the season, but his history of getting hurt and missing series every week and being mediocre far outweigh what he has done recently.

On paper I would agree that RB isn't a big hole but watching games this year I have no faith in Willis not fumbling, Moreno keeping up his level of recent play

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Inkana7

I agree with this assessment 100%. Minter's my guy at MLB, and I definitely think we should go O-Line in the 2nd. DL or DB (my preference) in round 3.

The only problem is that who do you replace on the offensive line? They're all solid enough to start for a lot of teams, and guys like Beadles and Walton have shown growth under Magazu (and then there's Blake,as you mentioned). But really no matter what, we need more quality O-Linemen, as there were times when I thought Manny Ramirez was going to get Peyton killed (and Kuper looked just as bad at times against BAL). That guy sucks.

On the defensive line, I really wouldn't mind rolling with Vickerson, Bannan (our best DT, IMO) Unrein and Wolfe another year. The things we do on the Front-7 seem pretty different than almost every other 4-3 front I've seen, and Wolfe seems to play more like a DT than a pure DE. If Ayers and Hunter progress, or we bring in another free agent DE, then I think a rotation of those 4 on the inside would work just fine.

Look at 4-3 unders or 3-4 BumPhillips teams and you'll see what we do more often.

[24champ]

I saw a Mock on CBS Sports that had us taking Sherrif Floyd of Florida. Would be a good get.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

Amerson put in one of the worst CB performances in recent history in our game against them this year. Dude was destroyed by Philip Dorsett and Rashawn Scott all day.......oh and he pulled a Rahim the Dream at the end of the game for the winning TD on a 60 yard TD.

The guy went from being a potential Top 10 selection at the beginning of the year to being a 2nd-3rd round draft projection. I respect Bmore's opinion, but I just don't see him going to a team that is going to have him playing press. He is going to have to be in the right scheme to succeed in the NFL. Best fit in the NFL is a zone heavy scheme. I still wouldn't be surprised if he is moved to FS either. He reminds me a lot of Sean Smith of the Dolphins.

[CEH]

Why not look at Brandon Moore FG G . I know he's 33 but if his skills are still there he's a top notch G