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Old 01-15-2013, 08:33 AM   #201
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Like Dreesen said in the locker room, the team reverted to the team it was at the beginning of the season. He couldn't explain why. For some reason, under pressure, they suddenly believed that they were the stumbling team of the first quarter of the season more than they believed they were the team that won eleven straight. Why?

Maybe they should all read some Malcolm Gladwell to deal with that issue?
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:35 AM   #202
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^ Agree with everything you said, Med. But still think running the ball on that late 4th quarter 3rd down was the right call. It's the kneeling on the final regulation possession that I have a problem with.

And a question: if the leadership/decision making is that bad, how did they go 13-3 and win 11 straight? And barely be challenged in those 11? I tend to look at it more as a team that did not react well to, and handle, adversity.
I disagree with the 3rd down call completely and here is why.

I think you roll out sprint right option, which BAL will not be ready to defend, and hit a wide open TE in the Flat for the First down. If its not there, Peyton does not throw the ball away he simply slides feet first and eats the play and RUNS THE CLOCK. You lose 5-7 yards at worst and win the game if you get the easy completion. If you get the worst case scenario, you simply punt and DO NOT take the time out and keep the clock running even more. BAL still has to have Moore implode to Win the game, but you send the message we are here to play 60 Minutes, instead of here you take the ball and good luck!
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:46 AM   #203
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I think you roll out sprint right option, which BAL will not be ready to defend, and hit a wide open TE in the Flat for the First down. If its not there, Peyton does not throw the ball away he simply slides feet first and eats the play and RUNS THE CLOCK.
Well, Manning rolling right didn't work out to well in OT, you may recall.

And again, it wasn't the 3rd down run (the right call IMO) that lost us the game. It was that Jacoby Jones/Raheem Moore debacle that did us in.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:49 AM   #204
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Only Sheepstud would come here after a 2 win season with Quinn and Cassel at QB and start QB smack.

Can we perma-ban this troll?
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:57 AM   #205
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I know it doesn't count for much but, the Ravens are going to have to pay out the ass now for Flacco.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:58 AM   #206
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I know it doesn't count for much but, the Ravens are going to have to pay out the ass now for Flacco.
That and they're going to get rolled by the Pats on Sunday.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:11 AM   #207
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I disagree with the 3rd down call completely and here is why.

I think you roll out sprint right option, which BAL will not be ready to defend, and hit a wide open TE in the Flat for the First down. If its not there, Peyton does not throw the ball away he simply slides feet first and eats the play and RUNS THE CLOCK. You lose 5-7 yards at worst and win the game if you get the easy completion. If you get the worst case scenario, you simply punt and DO NOT take the time out and keep the clock running even more. BAL still has to have Moore implode to Win the game, but you send the message we are here to play 60 Minutes, instead of here you take the ball and good luck!
I think that would have been a sweet call. A really sweet call. Though i still can't hate on the run. The chances that Baltimore would have come back were epically low. It happened, and that sucks, but epically low.

But can we retire the "team X doesnt deserve to win" cliche, like there's some moralistic value to sports outcomes?
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:44 AM   #208
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Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not going back and watching the game) but the Broncos kneeled down 2 different times with the exact same conditions, that is, they kneeled down at the end of the first half with 30 seconds and 2 TOs and they kneeled down at the end of the second half with 30 seconds and 2 TOs. Or was it just one time (not twice) the Broncos did this?

Am I remembering this correctly?
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:03 AM   #209
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Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not going back and watching the game) but the Broncos kneeled down 2 different times with the exact same conditions, that is, they kneeled down at the end of the first half with 30 seconds and 2 TOs and they kneeled down at the end of the second half with 30 seconds and 2 TOs. Or was it just one time (not twice) the Broncos did this?

Am I remembering this correctly?
Broncos ran at the end of the first half, knelt at the end of regulation.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:04 AM   #210
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Well, Manning rolling right didn't work out to well in OT, you may recall.

And again, it wasn't the 3rd down run (the right call IMO) that lost us the game. It was that Jacoby Jones/Raheem Moore debacle that did us in.
That was not a designed playcall, the protection broke down immediately and Manning panicked. It was 2cd and 6 for goodness sake as well, he should have thrown that ball away. He knows better.

However, if they ran that play (Sprint right option) on that third down its a low risk high reward way to play it with aggression versus passivity. There could also have been an incomplete there, but if the TE is open that's a real good risk I would take all day, every day.

Plus, that is not a standard DEN play and BAL would not have reacted well to that playcall. I gaurantee they would have had a shot at making the first down and maybe more.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:05 AM   #211
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Broncos ran at the end of the first half, knelt at the end of regulation.
Ok, thanks.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:05 AM   #212
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Hula, I agree that overall the coaching staff was too conservative in this game. Most notable to me was that decision to run on third down with Hester, but I think it's possible Manning audibled into that play. I also think they should have taken a shot with the ball and two time outs at the end of regulation rather than kneeling. But I don't think the situation you're talking about called for anything but conservative. I don't think giving the ball back with ~75 seconds, ~80 yards, and no time outs is much of a gamble whereas passing the ball on third down is. The fact that they played the odds and lost is unfortunate, but that happened only because of a massive, lucky, highly unlikely failure. If we won like we should have nobody would be talking about this. Since the Ravens won on a miracle play it's being overblown.

Alas Tony, the bottom line is that this was an equal opportunity FUBAR screw up!! It took both incredible mistakes to lose this game.. even after all the other mistakes, bad luck and terrible calls that went against us, we still showed the resilence and will to win and we were going to win that game and very much should have!

It required both Fox and Moore to have to pull back to back MIND FARTS out of their arses in the last three minutes in order to snatch defeat from the hands of victory with this gift horse to the Ravens!
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:09 AM   #213
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That was not a designed playcall, the protection broke down immediately and Manning panicked. It was 2cd and 6 for goodness sake as well, he should have thrown that ball away. He knows better.

However, if they ran that play (Sprint right option) on that third down its a low risk high reward way to play it with aggression versus passivity. There could also have been an incomplete there, but if the TE is open that's a real good risk I would take all day, every day.

Plus, that is not a standard DEN play and BAL would not have reacted well to that playcall. I gaurantee they would have had a shot at making the first down and maybe more.
I agree but hindsight is 20/20. Also, a bootleg play takes Manning out of his confort zone just a little bit. That being said, I agee with the play in principle.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:13 AM   #214
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That was not a designed playcall, the protection broke down immediately and Manning panicked. It was 2cd and 6 for goodness sake as well, he should have thrown that ball away. He knows better.

However, if they ran that play (Sprint right option) on that third down its a low risk high reward way to play it with aggression versus passivity. There could also have been an incomplete there, but if the TE is open that's a real good risk I would take all day, every day.

Plus, that is not a standard DEN play and BAL would not have reacted well to that playcall. I gaurantee they would have had a shot at making the first down and maybe more.
Good point Med12,

And everyone is focusing on the relative odds of completeing a 3rd and 7 pass in that situation. But had the plan been to get that first down no matter what, after we had just gotten the last first down with three conservative plays in a row that would have had a high odds of success! The Ravens saw we were trying to run out the clock and were loaded for bear for stopping the Dive run between guard and center.

After the run plays to get that first first down, on first, second or third down, Manning could have done his very best tuck fake hand off for yet another fake dive run over Haloti and dropped back for a quick 10 yard pass to Tamme, Decker or Stokely for the first down right then and there.. and possibly more.

Do that while taking an extra 45 seconds off the clock and then we could have taken three knees to end the thing! The Ravens know Foxy's tendencies in such situations which we had just reinforced on the previous series for a first down .. they would not have been expecting a first or second down pass in that situation if we set it up like another Dive run all along.

Last edited by Hulamau; 01-15-2013 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:25 AM   #215
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If a teams success is measured on how far they go, how exactly did they go farther last year? Lost divisional round last year too.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:02 AM   #216
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That was not a designed playcall, the protection broke down immediately and Manning panicked. It was 2cd and 6 for goodness sake as well, he should have thrown that ball away. He knows better.

However, if they ran that play (Sprint right option) on that third down its a low risk high reward way to play it with aggression versus passivity. There could also have been an incomplete there, but if the TE is open that's a real good risk I would take all day, every day.

Plus, that is not a standard DEN play and BAL would not have reacted well to that playcall. I gaurantee they would have had a shot at making the first down and maybe more.

I think that would have been a very good idea at the time. I agree the last play for us, wasn't a designed roll out. For whatever reason PM seemed to drift in the direction of the oncoming pass rusher this game. I think when he threw this terrible pick, he felt like he had to make something happen, which he did. I would have liked to have seen that ambition to win on the 3rd and 7by the play caller, so we wouldnt have to talk about Moore screwing the pooch.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:41 PM   #217
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I 100% agree with Med's last few posts. And local folks are overwhelmingly agreeing what Med was posting. Even with the natural respect for Fox, Manning and Elway, there's a attitude saying stop trying to make excuses, you blew it.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:53 AM   #218
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Only Sheepstud would come here after a 2 win season with Quinn and Cassel at QB and start QB smack.

Can we perma-ban this troll?
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:20 PM   #219
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^ Agree with everything you said, Med. But still think running the ball on that late 4th quarter 3rd down was the right call. It's the kneeling on the final regulation possession that I have a problem with.

And a question: if the leadership/decision making is that bad, how did they go 13-3 and win 11 straight? And barely be challenged in those 11? I tend to look at it more as a team that did not react well to, and handle, adversity.
I do too. Single stupidest play, or non play, I have seen in all my years of watching football.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:51 PM   #220
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I know it's sad, but you guys need to realize that the rest of the division isn't going to be able to beat out the Broncos for the next couple of years.

You guys will be a top 4 seed again and will have another chance to make a run in '13 and '14 at the least.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:02 PM   #221
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This makes no sense? Are you saying that because Manning lost a DIVISIONAL PLAYOFF Game that he was a bust and equal to Cassell/Quinn/or blind monkey kFc started at QB this year?

You realize teams are built over time right? You understand that you can't just cherry pick a QB and suddenly go to the SB right? I mean kFc is so great at finding QB talent and getting to the playoffs and the SB every 50 years or so.

I bet you are mouth breathing at the other end of the InteRNetS thinking that if your team drafts a QB you will win the SB next year right?

Manning was an investment, we are more competitive and closer to winning a SB now than if we had Tebow or Orton or even Cutler.

Your logic is so weak I bet you have trouble winning tic-tac toe games vs children.

Here is a hint STUD, your team is on the clock and when the draft rolls around everyone is going to relive how epicly bad kFc was to earn the 1st overall pick. Meanwhile we will be picking in the late 20's just needing a couple depth pieces to help maintain the Playoff team Elway has built and make it better.

We will go into the season favored to win the Division, pundits will be talking about the uphill battle Reid faces turning kFc around.

Which end of the stick do you really want to be on? The promising end or the suck end?
The promising end with a very good coaching staff/front office in place.

John Elway didn't build this roster. He's drafted 2 good players. Von Miller, who was a layup draft pick, and the DT.

Most of the roster was well set up before he got there and the playoff team last year was driven mostly by Shannahan/McDaniels draft picks.

This year a lot of other players like Stokely and Tamme were recruited by Manning.

Elway's 2nd round draft pick was the one who is now Denver's most hated player. We'll see what he does when Manning leaves. That will be when we find out what Elway is truly made of.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:03 PM   #222
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I know it's sad, but you guys need to realize that the rest of the division isn't going to be able to beat out the Broncos for the next couple of years.

You guys will be a top 4 seed again and will have another chance to make a run in '13 and '14 at the least.
If more kFc fans posted as well as you I might not have as much hate for your team.

Sadly it is going to take about 10 FL's to counter 1 Bob, and 1 kFcSTUD.

FL is right, Oakland is the only other franchise with any kind of stability and they are in need of a QB and have a lot of rebuilding yet to do, kFc will be totally remade, they will be better, 2-14 is hard to do with the parity in the NFL these days. Chuggers have the least rebuilding needed, if McCoy can play to Rivers strenghts they could give us fits and keep us from sweeping the division.

PM is going to win lots of RS games, he will take Plummers mark of just winning games to a new level. Playoffs are another thing, we really need to have a top teir run game to rely on if we want a SB.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:07 PM   #223
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That was not a designed playcall, the protection broke down immediately and Manning panicked. It was 2cd and 6 for goodness sake as well, he should have thrown that ball away. He knows better.

However, if they ran that play (Sprint right option) on that third down its a low risk high reward way to play it with aggression versus passivity. There could also have been an incomplete there, but if the TE is open that's a real good risk I would take all day, every day.

Plus, that is not a standard DEN play and BAL would not have reacted well to that playcall. I gaurantee they would have had a shot at making the first down and maybe more.
But that's not one of the 10 plays that Manning is comfortable running! The more I think about it, and we obviously have the benefit of retrospect and time, this is what you have proposed would have made the most sense in that situation. Run a pass play, and take a sack if it's not there. I have said this in other threads, but I truly believe that Manning was hurt and they didn't want to risk it.

I would like to see some more complex passing principles brought in by Gase, and hopefully the time of the offseason will be enough to incorporate some more situational passing concepts.

I get that the whole Manning philosophy is keeping it simple and executing to perfection, but clearly, that idea becomes more difficult in the high stress moments of a playoff game. It would explain Manning's lack of the same success in the playoffs that he has in the regular season. I have to believe Manning is willing to use more plays as long as he truly thinks that they will work.

What will send Gase into genius mode is not just standing on the sideline and feeding Manning plays that he will audible out of, but of taking Manning to a different level. That will require Gase selling him on situational passing concepts that work as well as what Manning is "comfortable" with. it will take Manning to trust Gase. I don't know how likely it is to happen, but Gase has a golden opportunity here.

Wining in the playoffs will also require a running game that is not just there to set up the play action, but also is innovative enough to gain the kind of yardage required to keep Manning from throwing 40 passes a game. I think ratcheting up the hurry up to Patriot levels will help with that, as a lot of the running plays that the Patriots are successful with are being set up by the defense not being set. This allows the offense to catch a defensive in a reactionary mode instead of an attacking mode. It clearly works in this league.

Many times are running plays are too obvious. The defense knows what's coming especially in 3rd and 1 situations. Many a drive has stalled because of not being able to convert a 3rd and 1.

We will win a bunch of games next year, but what may make it a Superbowl year is incorporating an offense that Manning is comfortable with, that will work, and that will put the offense in the best position to make a play, without the crutch of the 10 plays Manning is willing to run.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:45 AM   #224
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A detailed review of that awful play. You know the one I'm talking about. Read at your own risk, but actually fairly interesting.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...-game-tying-td
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:07 PM   #225
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