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Old 01-14-2013, 09:07 PM   #101
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Looking back on it, Mannings INT was worse. When you consider his stature, his salary, the situation, his experience its a play he absolutely should NOT make. An absolutely horrendous decision. It was 2nd down for God's sake.

Why were we in a defense where Moore was one on one with a guy 50 yards downfield. Say he played the man and the ball and Jones managed to out leap him or whatever and still score. Why weren't there 2 guys on him. Why is Carter worried about the underneath? I think coaching had a role in the play
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:20 PM   #102
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Rahim Moore made a terrible play. But I am amazed at how many people I respect on here are prosecuting him. All he would have had to do was not square his hips to the line of scrimmage and literally jog towards the receiver and he would have been in perfect position for the INT. Instead he completely misjudges the trajectory and misses the knock down and the interception. This was an elementary mistake for a Defensive Back. There seem to be a lot of people even more mad that he admitted that he was going for the interception.... Seriously....Rahim Moore makes that interception and the game is over, simple as that. Rahim Moore tries to knock the pass down or simply swats at it they still have several more chances and they proved all game long that they could have the deep ball on us at will. Moore would have been prosecuted just as much had he simply swatted the ball down and then three plays later the Ravens score and they send it to OT. These same people that would have prosecuted him then are the ones prosecuting him now for going for the INT.

I'm not defending Rahim Moore for one of the worst plays I've ever seen from a Broncos defender, it was a completely elementary mistake. But it was just that, a mistake. Moore gave us everything he had this year and IMO was the most improved Bronco from 2011 to 2012. He will continue to improve. Moore's elementary mistake was no more of an elementary mistake than Manning running to his right and trying to throw back across his body to the left.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:30 PM   #103
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I think Moore is going to have a big year for us next year. You could see him getting better as the year went on. Hopefully he uses this as motivation to train harder and come back a better player. I couldn't believe it when it happened but there were countless other things that happened leading up to that play. There is nothing more annoying than only rushing 3 guys.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:17 AM   #104
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I forgive Rahim Moore. We all should. Making mistakes is a part of life and I sure as hell know now that he's never going to let a wide receiver get deeper than him again in a zone.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:46 AM   #105
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I think Moore is going to have a big year for us next year. You could see him getting better as the year went on. Hopefully he uses this as motivation to train harder and come back a better player. I couldn't believe it when it happened but there were countless other things that happened leading up to that play. There is nothing more annoying than only rushing 3 guys.
He wasn't even in bad position at first either. He made the wrong call and was inches short from the pick. Had he just continued to run towards Jones, the ball is incomplete.

I'm not angry anymore, just upset because of what this season could have been.

Moore will be back and even better.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:39 AM   #106
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The real title of the thread is "Why should Champ Bailey be back next Year"
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:09 AM   #107
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The real title of the thread is "Why should Champ Bailey be back next Year"
Because he had an all pro year and got burnt in one game against one of the best deep threats in the league.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:32 AM   #108
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The goal IS TO WIN GAMES...I agree. and Moore made perhaps the most egregious error a safety could; something that should be so fundamental to a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER that this would never happen. Yet he made that error. He simply cannot be counted upon to make the right decision. He is a MENTAL MIDGET whose physical skills will always be limited by his pathetic mental acuity.
You are being a fool. The Broncos won 13 games this season with a often dominant defense, one that he was a 16 game starter for. This was the first game of this season where he can take a larger share of the loss. Stop acting like he was some liability all season long.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:03 AM   #109
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Because he had an all pro year and got burnt in one game against one of the best deep threats in the league.
He cost us the game and he didn't have a ALL Pro Year. Flacco flat out stinks he didn't do anything special he just threw a long pass and prayed for a catch Bailey got exposed.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:43 AM   #110
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He cost us the game and he didn't have a ALL Pro Year. Flacco flat out stinks he didn't do anything special he just threw a long pass and prayed for a catch Bailey got exposed.
Compelling argument but you're wrong.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...index.html#all

On the evidence of a full season of play. Bailey had gone one-on-one with the best receiver of nearly every team Denver had faced. And, until Saturday it had worked every time. Bailey had a superb season. We voted him our 2nd Team All-Pro corner (an honor that was replicated in the AP All-Pro team released on Saturday) because he stood out on tape and this was reflected in the numbers too.
In terms of giving up first downs/touchdowns per coverage snap he was ranked fourth overall among corners, and of those above him, no one was given the same coverage responsibilities he had. On balls that traveled over 20 yards in the air he allowed only three to be completed all year, with none of these going for touchdowns. Covering the likes of Vincent Jackson, Andre Johnson, A.J. Green, Roddy White and Brandon Lloyd, Bailey gave up only 17 completions of more than 10 yards and a single touchdown all year.


Can't argue with facts but if you're like 80% of this board I'm sure you will try to skew this some way or another to try and make your point.

Last edited by McDman; 01-15-2013 at 07:49 AM..
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:47 AM   #111
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Face it. When it really counted, our secondary fell flat on its face, including (and maybe worst of all) Champ Bailey. Keep in mind, the only reason he didn't get burned for an additional TD and another 70 yards tacked to his name is because Flacco overthrew Smith. I'm still waiting for somebody to bring up Ron Milus and his responsibility for this debacle. Or JDR. For this kind of disaster, somebody's head has to roll. If not any of the players, then Milus.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:51 AM   #112
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Face it. When it really counted, our secondary fell flat on its face, including (and maybe worst of all) Champ Bailey. Keep in mind, the only reason he didn't get burned for an additional TD and another 70 yards tacked to his name is because Flacco overthrew Smith. I'm still waiting for somebody to bring up Ron Milus and his responsibility for this debacle. Or JDR. For this kind of disaster, somebody's head has to roll. If not any of the players, then Milus.
He had his worst game of his career, maybe second after the Chad Johnson game awhile back. It still doesn't take away from the fact he had an amazing year and to question whether he shouod be on this team next year is shockingly moronic.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:16 AM   #113
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He had his worst game of his career, maybe second after the Chad Johnson game awhile back. It still doesn't take away from the fact he had an amazing year and to question whether he shouod be on this team next year is shockingly moronic.
Nowhere have I advocated the firing of Champ, so take your "moronic" and put it where the sun don't shine.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:30 AM   #114
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Compelling argument but you're wrong.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...index.html#all

On the evidence of a full season of play. Bailey had gone one-on-one with the best receiver of nearly every team Denver had faced. And, until Saturday it had worked every time. Bailey had a superb season. We voted him our 2nd Team All-Pro corner (an honor that was replicated in the AP All-Pro team released on Saturday) because he stood out on tape and this was reflected in the numbers too.
In terms of giving up first downs/touchdowns per coverage snap he was ranked fourth overall among corners, and of those above him, no one was given the same coverage responsibilities he had. On balls that traveled over 20 yards in the air he allowed only three to be completed all year, with none of these going for touchdowns. Covering the likes of Vincent Jackson, Andre Johnson, A.J. Green, Roddy White and Brandon Lloyd, Bailey gave up only 17 completions of more than 10 yards and a single touchdown all year.


Can't argue with facts but if you're like 80% of this board I'm sure you will try to skew this some way or another to try and make your point.
If Bailey is smart he'll move to safety and admit hes not a CB in this league no more. If you can't stick Troy Smith what makes you think he can stick elite Receivers like A.J Green, Calvin Johnson etc. And i don't know about your stats but in the Bengals game A.J smoked Bailey

A. Green Rec7 Yards99 Avg14.1 TD1

Last edited by Punisher; 01-15-2013 at 08:33 AM..
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:31 AM   #115
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Nowhere have I advocated the firing of Champ, so take your "moronic" and put it where the sun don't shine.
That wasn't meant for you.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:34 AM   #116
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If Bailey is smart he'll move to safety and admit hes not a CB in this league no more. If you can't stick Troy Smith what makes you think he can stick elite Receivers like A.J Green, Calvin Johnson etc. And i don't know about your stats but in the Bengals game A.J smoked Bailey
You didn't even read the response did you? He gave up one TD all year. I don't even know how to respond to this.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:41 AM   #117
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You didn't even read the response did you? He gave up one TD all year. I don't even know how to respond to this.
**** No i didn't read that. I know Champ is done at CB he was a liability the game plan for the Ravens was to throw it deep against a slow old CB. Hes not a CB anymore deal with it we lost the game because of him.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:44 AM   #118
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He basically gave the Ravens 14 Points, "ALL PRO" CB don't give up 14 points. And you can make it 21 points if Flacco didn't over throw Smith
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:46 AM   #119
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**** No i didn't read that. I know Champ is done at CB he was a liability the game plan for the Ravens was to throw it deep against a slow old CB. Hes not a CB anymore deal with it we lost the game because of him.
Champ deserves the benefit of the doubt. And on one of those bombs, he was actually ahead of the receiver, he just got washed out by the receiver's momentum when the ball was behind him. He didn't play the ball well that play, but it wasn't a speed issue.

I was almost more concerned with the pass rush, but it's hard to make too many determinations watching in person. Other than it sucked.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:51 AM   #120
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I'm still not cooled down enough to give Rahim a reprieve, but I am ready to think of solutions. For one thing, the Broncos pass rush disappeared on Saturday. Why? Flacco was not so much as touched until the first OT. I think this is glaring evidence of our weakness at DT. Obviously, if the QB has all the time in the world, Champ cannot keep up with a fast receiver for fifty yards. Champ got exposed because our weakness at DT got exposed. Still, all in all, I believe Milus should be fired immediately. You cannot let such a disaster go by without some kind of response. It sends a very bad signal. Some things are just flat out unacceptable. The Broncos should draft a penetrating DT like Sharrif Floyd in the first round, Champ should be moved to safety, and a solid CB picked up in FA to play opposite Harris. Keep Rahim around if you want, but tape him to the goalpost and use him for target practice.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:55 AM   #121
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I'm still not cooled down enough to give Rahim a reprieve, but I am ready to think of solutions. For one thing, the Broncos pass rush disappeared on Saturday. Why? Flacco was not so much as touched until the first OT. I think this is glaring evidence of our weakness at DT. Obviously, if the QB has all the time in the world, Champ cannot keep up with a fast receiver for fifty yards. Champ got exposed because our weakness at DT got exposed. Still, all in all, I believe Milus should be fired immediately. You cannot let such a disaster go by without some kind of response. It sends a very bad signal. Some things are just flat out unacceptable. The Broncos should draft a penetrating DT like Sharrif Floyd in the first round, Champ should be moved to safety, and a solid CB picked up in FA to play opposite Harris. Keep Rahim around if you want, but tape him to the goalpost and use him for target practice.
I like most of what you say here. But god help us if we expect to replace Champ at corner with FA.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:58 AM   #122
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I'm still not cooled down enough to give Rahim a reprieve, but I am ready to think of solutions. For one thing, the Broncos pass rush disappeared on Saturday. Why? Flacco was not so much as touched until the first OT. I think this is glaring evidence of our weakness at DT. Obviously, if the QB has all the time in the world, Champ cannot keep up with a fast receiver for fifty yards. Champ got exposed because our weakness at DT got exposed. Still, all in all, I believe Milus should be fired immediately. You cannot let such a disaster go by without some kind of response. It sends a very bad signal. Some things are just flat out unacceptable. The Broncos should draft a penetrating DT like Sharrif Floyd in the first round, Champ should be moved to safety, and a solid CB picked up in FA to play opposite Harris. Keep Rahim around if you want, but tape him to the goalpost and use him for target practice.
Agree
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:08 AM   #123
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I still think thats dumb, not selfish. He made a snap decision in the moment. A selfish play would have been for him to run away because he didn't want to get hurt because he's in a contract year or something. I dont think he was making a conscious choice in the moment.
Moore really blew it, no question about it, but if the teamates like him and trust him as Champ implied 99 times out of 100 he makes that play in practice then you have to at least keep him into camp and see how he responds to this.

Its possible he will toast mentally, regardless of what kind of confident public bravado he might be able to muster in a few months. The real test is back on the field and if he is damaged goods from making such an easy to avoid collosal and costly screw up as this one, then we get to cut the ties.

But if he shows true grit and resilience and dedication to improving his game at least as much between this year and next season as he did between his first aborted season and this year, then we'd be foolish to cut him

The key is his response and how the other players really feel about him on the team. Regardless we need more solid Safety help next year . .Hopefully Quentin Carter can come back strong from his injury which isn't an easy one for a safety.

But a real stud back there is a missing link along with a stud at Middle linebacker and an every down monster in the middle of the D line toward taking this team to and winning the SB ..... with the addition of a much improved RB corp this coming year as well.

The rest of the draft and FA should be carefully spent on solid bench players who can come in and keep the train on the tracks if we hit a tough injury spell next year...

Overall I think the new training crew and their methods including use of the Power-Plate seems to have been a real asset. There appeared to be less overall nagging injuries that were slow to heal and our game stamina was consistent all year instead of the big fade as we had done for almost the last 10 years straight of the Tuten era.

And most of the muscle strain type injuries we did have seemed to bounce back quicker than in the past and overall we had relatively few critical injuries all year.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:11 AM   #124
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The Broncos should draft a penetrating DT like Sharrif Floyd in the first round, Champ should be moved to safety, and a solid CB picked up in FA to play opposite Harris. Keep Rahim around if you want, but tape him to the goalpost and use him for target practice.
They've already said Champ isn't moving to safety. Rahim will play at FS again next year, so you might as well get used to the idea. Get a good SS, if Carter isn't it, a MLB, and a penetrating DT for the defense. Offense needs to get stronger at the point of attack (G/C/G) and I have serious questions about Kuper (needs another surgery!?!?). Also need another RB.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:13 AM   #125
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I still think thats dumb, not selfish. He made a snap decision in the moment. A selfish play would have been for him to run away because he didn't want to get hurt because he's in a contract year or something. I dont think he was making a conscious choice in the moment.
Moore really blew it, no question about it, but if the teamates like him and trust him as Champ implied 99 times out of 100 he makes that play in practice then you have to at least keep him into camp and see how he responds to this.

I was really pissed that he didn't get behind the WR in his angle as any fool in such a situation would be trying to do, he wasn't even going there but was just trying to drift in front of him for the glory pick!

All we need was a knock down really or a pick and especially if Jones caught it Moore's most primary job was to insure he was in position to damn well make that tackle!! Game is over then and all the Ravens get out of it is a momentary thrill while the ball is in the air before the hammer came down on their season. Instead, thanks to Moore, it was us that got the sledgehammer up side the head!

Its possible Rahim will be toast mentally, regardless of what kind of confident public bravado he might be able to muster in a few months. The real test is back on the field and there it will come out if he is damaged goods from making such an easy to avoid colossal and costly screw up as this one? If so, then we get to cut the ties.

But if he shows true grit and resilience and dedication to improving his game at least as much between this year and next season as he did between his first aborted season and this year, then we'd be foolish to cut him, assuming too that he still has the trust and respect of the locker room?

The key is his response and how the other players really feel about him on the team. Regardless we need more solid Safety help next year . .Hopefully Quentin Carter can come back strong from his injury which isn't an easy one for a safety.

But a real stud back there is a missing link along with a stud at Middle linebacker and an every down monster in the middle of the D line toward taking this team to and winning the SB ..... with the addition of a much improved RB corp this coming year as well.

The rest of the draft and FA should be carefully spent on solid bench players who can come in and keep the train on the tracks if we hit a tough injury spell next year...

Overall I think the new training crew and their methods including use of the Power-Plate seems to have been a real asset. There appeared to be less overall nagging injuries that were slow to heal and our game stamina was consistent all year instead of the big fade as we had done for almost the last 10 years straight of the Tuten era.

And most of the muscle strain type injuries we did have seemed to bounce back quicker than in the past and overall we had relatively few critical injuries all year.
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