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Old 01-14-2013, 03:25 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
IMHO, the worst running plays were handing the ball off to Hillman on 2nd or 3rd and inches and still not getting the first down.

how about a QB sneak? Anyone think of that option?
Sneak isn't an option because neck injuries I would think.
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:35 PM   #127
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So no 1 or 2 RB, he decides to put the fate of the game in the RBs hands? No 1 or 2 I'm trying to get that 1st down another way. Who says manning needs to throw an incomplete? He could've just fallen to the ground if no one is open.
The play wasn't necessarily to get a first down as much as it was to eat up the clock. That was a guaranty that as long as Hilman doesn't fumble or go out of bounds, the game loses about 40 seconds. You think a QB throws a ball thinking it is going to be incomplete? How about a perfect throw and the receiver drops it? I know they can go for a safe swing out pass that gives a better chance at a first down but I believe the option of killing 40 seconds as a 100% sure bet while the first down was a much smaller percentage.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:23 PM   #128
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I said the same thing in one of the innumerable other threads. I agree with the call, I agree with the thread. We've won games like this this season. Our pass coverage and pass rush were two of the strengths of the team. Trust them to get the job done in a situation where the Ravens had virtually no chance of winning the game. They failed us horribly. Can't coach through failure like that, you just do what puts your team in the best position to win. The goal is to win the game, not pretend your making a questionable call makes you a bigger man and avails you of any of the blame for a loss. It takes more "balls" to make the right call in the face of a sea of idiots.
Pass coverage and pass rush failed us the entire game, so the best strategy is to force the Ravens to do what they were doing best: stone our pass rush and have Flacco play pitch and catch downfield. Perfect.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:10 PM   #129
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What? We can't even get a little creative other than these run up the middle? Give me a reverse if you got nothing in the creative bin. It was like watching a s l o w m o v i n g car crash.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:15 PM   #130
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I will be rooting for you guys next week.

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Old 01-14-2013, 05:27 PM   #131
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Well, I figure just in general it was a poorly coached game on O and D.

Coach Fox is gonna be on 104.3 in a few minute talking to Big Al, we'll see what he has to say.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:42 PM   #132
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Buzz off, Fox. Says again the guys were "shell shocked", so makes the analogy again of "surviving for the next round". I consider that a little weak, tell your guys to suck it up for this round, tell them to get their game face on.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:47 PM   #133
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Why.....after we can barely make 3rd and 2 what makes him think w can make 3rd and 5. As much as we want to believe we are a run first team we arent. We have to pass to pass to set it up. Especially w Moreno and Hillman. Mc Coy and evidently now Manning havnt figured that out......
Not an issue here at all. On 3rd and 2 the D stacks against the run. Probably would've been a good time to pass if that were not against the McFoxball religion. But on 3rd and 5 Peyton probably saw a pass defense he didn't like so checked to a run that might work if the right people drop into coverage.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:52 PM   #134
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It was the wrong call. How do I know? We lost.

We had them down and ready to stick the dagger in. You go for the kill shot. Period. We had multiple opportunities to put the game away and didn't. We took the knee and most people knew n their guts we just gave them another shot at life.

Last edited by RaiderH8r; 01-14-2013 at 06:02 PM..
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:01 PM   #135
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Fox just said the 3rd and 7 was his call, PM didn't audible into it. So we can put that to rest. Nevertheless, I thought they were too conservative on that series. If all you need is one 1st down, at least TRY to get it.

We saw the conservative method almost backfire a few games in the reg season where the opponent was given a last gasp, Denver had to recover a few onside kicks to keep the opponent from a last drive.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:04 PM   #136
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I think the loss of Moreno was a major factor in that final call. Hillman was going down on first contact. PM had to know, by that point, that he had no play action to work with. It was going to be a straight toss, and probably a heavy blitz. I don't know what the Ratbirds were playing at that moment, but I assume it was at least a nickle package. Maybe even dime? I'm guessing that everything he saw on that field screamed "RUN." Does anybody know the routes that were called on that play? I'm guessing it would be something designed to empty the middle and pull off Lewis? So what do you do? Bubble screen? Dump off to a back? Screen? Flat? Hook route? You've got two out of three chances that something bad is going to happen, and an incomplete doesn't burn any clock.
Agree that losing Moreno at half really effect the Offense flow and rhythm the whole second half until they got it back in sync some of the last two drives learing up to the DT touchdown.

But on that TD drive to DT there was no Moreno and we still managed to combine effective passing and running to go 91 yards and score from deep in their redzone!

And using this reason for why Fox had Manning take a knee with 32 seconds left and 2 TOs from our own 20 is all the more reason why we should have gone for the much simpler 1st down when it was right in front of us and when the Ravens D had was flagging a bit, particular their secondary, after the long 91 yard drive and a quick stop of Ravens O giving us the ball back with something like 3:20 to go!

You get taht last first down and no more scoring or moving up and down the field would ever be necessary and any possibility, however remote it may have appeared on a stats spread sheet would have been irrelevant!

This is what I fault Foxy for, they didnt even consider it. He was conservative not going for it with 30 seconds left in the first half and two TOs then as well trying to at least get in FG range again to allow Prater to make it a 3 point lead at half .. which .. as it turns out would have won it in regulation as well inspite of Flaccos 7 yard Hail Mary TD!!

His first and last instinct was 'to play the safer odds' again with 3:20 to go and a 7 point lead on the line and finally yet again he abdicated for all these seemingly sound and careful rationals expressed in the opening post of this thread! .. But each one of those was the WRONG decision.

It robbed of of three golden opportunites to either put points on the board at the very end of the half or at end of regulation and preventing any more scoring even being needed if we go for a single first down and mean it!

Fox even admitted he wasnt even TRYING to get a first down, only trying to run a bit of time off the clock and eat of their last TOs.

Listen, I like Fox a lot and wouldn;t dream of suggesting he be fired over this, that is idiotic.... But I do want him to own up to just maybe making a mistake in his calls here ... three chances to score or close out the game with PMFM behind center and he takes the calculated conservative way out EACH time!!
'
There are games when the flow if it and how it has unfolded and the given opponent would make me agree with his philosophy .. this wasnt one of them. Its exactly what I cautioned about in several post game threads after we won big but allowed the other team to score multiple times and made the score a lot closer than it should have been or the how well we trashed the team!

I was concerned for the habit and prescedent set in teh players mind.. That tighten up and play not to lose rather than knowing when to go for it and at least do your best to get a first down,.

some of you act like it is a forgone conclusion Manning woulkd have thrown an INT if we only had 7 yards for a first ( actually I would have told him to mix one run and two passes into those three plays .. whatever mix Manning felt the defense and the circumstance called for to get a SAFE first down.

Any passes could only be those where it was our guy or nobody catching the ball! The Ravens knew what we were going to do, Flacco was warming up and so was their FG kicker on the sidelines before we even started the last series of 3 dive plays and a cloud of dust and then punt!

Stats are fine and whatever cold hard football 'fact' you want to pull out is fine for debates but when the game was clearly on the line and we had a golden chance to NOT give the ball back to Flacco who has the best deep long ball in the NFL and had torched us three or four times on long balls already including two TDs.... it was the riskiest play it turns out to NOT PLAY TO WIN right then and there!


The Odds of Manning risking a difficult and dangerous throw in that particular circumstance was a bout ZERO!.. the odds of him getting a first down when he tells everyone on the team 'Play this play like its your last and we end this game" I will take that chance any day of the year!!
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:04 PM   #137
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It was the wrong call. How do I know? We lost.
For the 100th time, what if we passed it and still lost? By definition, that would mean there was no right call.

Horrible logic to pick that one non-scoring play and say that that's why we lost.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:07 PM   #138
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Regardless of what you or I think, Elway fully backs Fox on this call and the kneeling down at the end of regulation.

So some of you can ***** & moan all you want, but Fox is going to be back next year, as he should, and he has said he will do it the same under the same circumstances. So deal with it.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:07 PM   #139
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Stats are fine and whatever cold hard football 'fact' you want to pull out is fine for debates but when the game was clearly on the line and we had a golden chance to NOT give the ball back to Flacco
3rd and 7 in that weather is hardly a "golden chance".

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The Odds of Manning risking a difficult and dangerous throw in that particular circumstance was a bout ZERO!.. the odds of him getting a first down when he tells everyone on the team 'Play this play like its your last and we end this game" I will take that chance any day of the year!!
Zero? Please. There's always a risk of a tipped ball, etc. Just look at the pick 6 and our last offensive play.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:09 PM   #140
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That's the problem. Fox got away with this mindset too many times this year. Think how many games we were up multiple scores this year only to hang on with teams able to tie or go for the win at the end. Sooner or later your D is going to break.... and it did.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:09 PM   #141
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For the 100th time, what if we passed it and still lost? By definition, that would mean there was no right call.

Horrible logic to pick that one non-scoring play and say that that's why we lost.
It was a loser's call and it bit us in the ass. Fox just made this club a cautionary tale for the ages. It takes a special kind of ****ed to pull that off. Between Fox and Rahim they went full retard.

At least throwing it puts the game in the $96 million man's hands. Isn't clutch the whole reason we got Manning? If Fox can't find the nut to pass the ball after blowing $96 million on the Bioneckle then WTF is he doing with this club anyway?
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:17 PM   #142
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For the 100th time, what if we passed it and still lost? By definition, that would mean there was no right call.

Horrible logic to pick that one non-scoring play and say that that's why we lost.
Right because it's not logic. It's 100% emotion, which we know can be irrational when taken to extremes. One doesn't have to agree with a decision, however they should understand why it is made.

You are right -what if we passed and it fell incomplete? Now the Ravens have 40 more seconds to work with; and what if they still get the bomb to Torrey Smith? Then this whole board would be *****ing about how Fox let the Ravens have more time to beat us.

Fox played the percentages, and the secondary blew it. That is why they tied the game. Period.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:19 PM   #143
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3rd and 7 in that weather is hardly a "golden chance".



Zero? Please. There's always a risk of a tipped ball, etc. Just look at the pick 6 and our last offensive play.
Well yeah, it goes both ways. I'm sure it's been mentioned that it wasn't just the 3rd and 7, but the plays prior to it where a more aggressive attitude to get a 1st down would have won the game.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:22 PM   #144
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Well yeah, it goes both ways. I'm sure it's been mentioned that it wasn't just the 3rd and 7, but the plays prior to it where a more aggressive attitude to get a 1st down would have won the game.
Exactly. That first down=game over. Show some nut, take the initiative and win the ****ing game. If Fox can't have enough faith in Manning to put the game away we should get ourselves a game manager and a new stable of running backs to tote the rock 60 times a game.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:32 PM   #145
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Well yeah, it goes both ways. I'm sure it's been mentioned that it wasn't just the 3rd and 7, but the plays prior to it where a more aggressive attitude to get a 1st down would have won the game.
Pardon me- MAY have. May have won the game. Not would have won the game. More aggressive plays may have also dropped incomplete or worse.

Fox played the percentages and his secondary blew it. That is what we should really be *****ing about.

As I said earlier, Fox is our coach next year, and he has said he will do it again under similar circumstances, and nothing you or I say will change that.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:45 PM   #146
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Well yeah, it goes both ways. I'm sure it's been mentioned that it wasn't just the 3rd and 7, but the plays prior to it where a more aggressive attitude to get a 1st down would have won the game.
Yes, as has been mentioned multiple times, many of the decisions can and should be questioned (FG attempt, kneeling down at half time, kneeling down at the end of regulation, etc.). But this isn't one of them.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:53 PM   #147
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So fckface fox fails to own up to his nutless decisions and then reaffirms in the future that he WILL MAKE THE SAME CALLS and half you fox nuthuggers are totally cool with that? Just pathetic. You put the game in the hands of your HOF QB and trust he makes the smart decision to throw or take the sack if nothings there. For God's sake at least TRY for a first down instead of 3 runs up Koppen's ass.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:54 PM   #148
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Pardon me- MAY have. May have won the game. Not would have won the game. More aggressive plays may have also dropped incomplete or worse.

Fox played the percentages and his secondary blew it. That is what we should really be *****ing about.

As I said earlier, Fox is our coach next year, and he has said he will do it again under similar circumstances, and nothing you or I say will change that.
Dunno man. I'd have liked to see more aggression there in a playoff game. You can't keep letting a team hang around. You put them away at home, and you put them away as fast as you can.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:59 PM   #149
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So fckface fox fails to own up to his nutless decisions and then reaffirms in the future that he WILL MAKE THE SAME CALLS and half you fox nuthuggers are totally cool with that? Just pathetic. You put the game in the hands of your HOF QB and trust he makes the smart decision to throw or take the sack if nothings there. For God's sake at least TRY for a first down instead of 3 runs up Koppen's ass.
I've heard a lot of people say Manning should have shown the balls to override what Fox wanted to do, should have said, "Bull****, we're gonna put them away right now."
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:21 PM   #150
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Regardless of what you or I think, Elway fully backs Fox on this call and the kneeling down at the end of regulation.

So some of you can ***** & moan all you want, but Fox is going to be back next year, as he should, and he has said he will do it the same under the same circumstances. So deal with it.
Obviously Elway is going to back Fox infront of the media and public you ****ing genius. What is he supposed to do ? Put him on the ****ing spot and create controversy and noise for everyone?
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