In Defense of Peyton: Screw it, I'm starting a thread

[peacepipe]

What's annoying is trolls like 30 ° only showing up to b****. You never hear from them during the season for example,30° hasn't posted since 09/12 when he was saying DT should be cut & that PM basically sucks. He's nowhere to be found when we're doing well.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Other than Trindon Holliday, it was a team-wide choke job, including the coaching staff. It seemed to me that after that bogus PI call on Carter in the first half, the steam just went out of the team. From that moment on, they were waiting for disaster, instead of fighting for glory. Manning was part of that failure as well, but not all of it, by any means. If I had to say who was number one in the blame column, I would have to say the D, and especially the secondary starring Champ Bailey. What a pathetic performance.

On the other hand, you've got to underscore how important the loss of Moreno was. That was a critical loss to the offense.

We lacked edge on both sides of the ball. But its hard to have an edge with a game plan so conservative it made Ron Paul blush. We kept standing pat waiting for the Ravens to fold. We should've been cranking the pressure.

Both coordinators and Foxy own the lions share of the blame.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

Bull****. All these stupid threads bashing manning are started by tebow lovers. Hell how many new threads have tebow in the title?? It has everything to do with it when the OP is questioning our STUPID fanbase. It's the biggest reason.

Do you honestly believe Manning is a good playoff QB? And do you honestly believe that last interception was anything other than Manning choking in a big-time situation? These are the questions many of us are asking. I'm sorry if you and SonOf can't bring yourselves to ask or answer such questions for yourselves, but that's your issue not ours.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

We lacked edge on both sides of the ball. But its hard to have an edge with a game plan so conservative it made Ron Paul blush. We kept standing pat waiting for the Ravens to fold. We should've been cranking the pressure.

Both coordinators and Foxy own the lions share of the blame.

This I agree with. When it comes to football players your going to have bad games, individually and as a team, but the mistakes Fox and Co. made are the kinds of mistakes that reveal the type of coaching a team really has. For the Broncos it revealed that our coaching staff has virtually no chance of ever winning anything meaningful. The right coaches and game-planning might be able to get Manning out of his playoff funk, but Fox and McCoy make it worse by playing not to lose rather than playing to win.

[Hulamau]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

BROKEN RECORD ALERT!

But i just feel the need.

I've never seen a fanbase turn on its best player so quickly. Obviously this doesn't go for all of you, but a lot are placing the blame on Manning and I have no clue why.

Yes, he wasn't perfect yesterday. Far from it. But, as ive said a bunch, he had a 100 rating going into that last Raven drive. He lead a beautiful drive to put us up 35-28. And, again, the Broncos win chances were 97.2 percent when Flacco let go of his hail mary or whatever you wanna call it. Again, we lost on a fluke play.

This guy transformed our team into a contender. Had that fluke play not happened, we'd all be talking about Peyton's good, but not perfect game and his gutty performance in some awful conditions (it was beyond cold in that stadium).

But, instead, a lot of you are whining and b****ing, and at least one of you would like to see Brock Osweiler as our QB next year.

Yes, he wasn't PERFECT, but if you're pointing fingers for yesterdays loss, you're gonna need to get to the second hand before you point to Peyton.

Anyone who is dissing on Manning and blaming him for that loss yesterday when he had WON the game, had our coaches had the balls to let him seal the win and had Rahim not gone to sleep at the wheel when the coaches gave the ball back to the Ravens instead of letting Manning end it all in regulation, are truly first order numbskulls!!

Anyone who seriously is calling for dumping Manning now is totally short sighted, spoiled and utterly ignorant about football and what gives a team the chance for a season like ours! I don't even want to discuss it, even trying to go there would be like trying to teach English to a Neanderthal...

[Hulamau]

Originally Posted by Popps

Manning won the game for us. He did his job at the end of the game, and the f###-brains out there in our secondary couldn't manage to simply stay between the endzone... and a dude.

Good god, at least interfere with him if you can't do your job.


Thanks for the great season, Peyton. Look forward to next year.

And I second the motion top to bottom!!

[Fedaykin]

Manning deserves considerable blame for the loss in OT, but he had WON the game for us with a go ahead touchdown in the 4th. There is still no one available I'd rather have at the helm next year.

The only person I want gone is Rahim "Pop Warner" Moore. Not because he screwed up, but because of WHY, by his own admission, he screwed up. Had we any half decent safety who just does his job instead of going for personal glory back there and we're on our way to the AFCCG instead of talking about next year.

[Armchair Bronco]

Manning is a rental QB and a playoff choker. He's on the tail end of his career.

He also proved to me yesterday that he's the perfect match for someone like Fox because he's also a playoff p***Y.

He'll retire as a 1-time Super Bowl winner, with a lot of great statistical records just like Dan Marino. But he will never be a clutch post-season performer in my book. Yesterday proved that to me.

Frankly, I don't care whether Fox called for a run on 3rd and 7 or whether Manning audibled into a run up the gut for zero yards on 3rd and 7. Both of them should be ashamed of themselves.

Manning could have had a Jordanesque moment and used his $90 million arm to propel the Broncos the the Conference Championship game. Instead, he (with the full blessing of Fox, I'm sure) handed the ball off to rookie Ronnie Hillman, the NFL's youngest player, when the season hung in the balance.

No guts, no glory.

[anon]

Manning had just as big of a brain fart as Rahim Moore. What was his reason for throwing a very risky, physically difficult pass on 2nd and 6?

Yes, we wouldn't have been 13-3 without him. That is absolutely true. But that last interception was a terrible play, not quite as bad as Moore's play, but pretty bad. In a game with so many mistakes, if one were to single out plays that "lost it" for us, the OT interception would be near the top.

Originally Posted by Armchair Bronco

Manning is a rental QB and a playoff choker. He's on the tail end of his career.

He also proved to me yesterday that he's the perfect match for someone like Fox because he's also a playoff p***Y.

He'll retire as a 1-time Super Bowl winner, with a lot of great statistical records just like Dan Marino. But he will never be a clutch post-season performer in my book. Yesterday proved that to me.

Frankly, I don't care whether Fox called for a run on 3rd and 7 or whether Manning audibled into a run up the gut for zero yards on 3rd and 7. Both of them should be ashamed of themselves.

Manning could have had a Jordanesque moment and used his $90 million arm to propel the Broncos the the Conference Championship game. Instead, he (with the full blessing of Fox, I'm sure) handed the ball off to rookie Ronnie Hillman, the NFL's youngest player, when the season hung in the balance.

No guts, no glory.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by anon

Manning had just as big of a brain fart as Rahim Moore. What was his reason for throwing a very risky, physically difficult pass on 2nd and 6?

Yes, we wouldn't have been 13-3 without him. That is absolutely true. But that last interception was a terrible play, not quite as bad as Moore's play, but pretty bad. In a game with so many mistakes, if one were to single out plays that "lost it" for us, the OT interception would be near the top.

Manning made a bad call, doing his job.

Moore decided to NOT do his job.

There's no comparison.

[NUB]

Baltimore scored 17-points off of Manning's turnovers. An INT for a TD, a fumble recovery that led to a TD, and a bizarro INT that led to the game-ending FG. He also had another fumble stricken by a Baltimore penalty. You know, it'd be different if Manning was playing great, but he was as underwhelming as the rest of the team. If it weren't for Holliday I seriously doubt this game would have been that close. Hell, if Jacboy Jones ran two TDs back on Denver this game would have been a ****ing blowout by comparison.

People are upset with Manning because he has an image of being a playoff choke artist, which he is, and this game kinda reaffirmed it. He's not the only reason Denver lost, but he didn't do it a ton of favors, either.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

All three turnovers were his fault.

Bull. The pick six was 100% on the officials for not calling the blatant, clear, and egregious pass interference that occured.

[go_broncos]

Manning - Please retire..I can't bear another choke job.
This season will remain forever in my mind..What a bunch of chokers..
It started with shanny losing games and the tradition is being continued by Mcd,Fox and manning.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

Bull. The pick six was 100% on the officials for not calling the blatant, clear, and egregious pass interference that occured.

OL deserves some props for the fumble as well. Piss poor protection will net you a fumble sooner or later. PM shares some blame. But this game was lost on the clipboards and in the trenches.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

OL deserves some props for the fumble as well. Piss poor protection will net you a fumble sooner or later. PM shares some blame. But this game was lost on the clipboards and in the trenches.

Protection has been very good most of the season, but you're right, they had a rough day at the office. I'm not sure if it wasn't a mistake not to go with Ramirez at guard. All things being equal, Kuper is the better player, but he's been injured and inactive all year and Ramirez had done a solid job, especially late in the year. Probably wouldn't have made a difference, but those changes do effect OL chemistry. I'm not sure what they are thinking draft-wise, but someone like Barrett Jones at the end of the 1st would be a solid pick and he can play anywhere on the line.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Your "all Peyton does is lose" playoff arguments are as dumb as skip bayless's all Tebow does is win arguments

[ScottXray]

Originally Posted by ThirtyDegrees

It is the point.

I'm sick and tired of watching the Peyton defenders exert themselves trying desperately to move the goalposts as far as possible.

He was supposed to make this team a Super Bowl contender, that was the entire argument from the moment you idiots threw Tebow under the bus.

Manning was supposed to turn this team immediately into a Super Bowl threat, and he hasn't.

The reality is that he's incapable of winning a Super Bowl in his current state, he's not as good as Brady, or Rodgers, or even Russell Wilson at this point.

I doubt the Broncos can get a better QB than Manning at this point, but they need to start looking as soon as possible.

He DID make the team a SB contender. He did make it a SB threat.
The fact is no ONE player can win a a SB, it takes a team, offense, defense and Special teams.

And the TEAM lost the game Saturday, due to mistakes on every phase (but special teams returns). Blame it on Manning if you want, but there were failures on the coaching, Offensive line ( and thus QB pressures and failed run game) , defensive line ( no pressure on Flacco) and secondary that endedup costing us the game. The team was not prepared to face an opponent that would hang with us score for score ( whether or not they should have) and folded when the pressure got too high.

Manning elevated the play of almost every part of the team up until Saturday, and ( assuming he maintains his dedication and desire to play) will continue to, next year.

It was a disappointing end, to a year that had high hopes and expectations after the team got rolling, but almost nobody expected us to get to 13-3 and HFA when the preseason ended. The team overachieved almost all year, and it caught up to them in the end.

I agree that getting to, and winning a super bowl, with Manning, is the mark that this team needs to be measured against. Elway put all his eggs in that basket, and right or wrong, failure to do so will ultimately be a failure. But doing so in the first year would have been unexpected, no matter how much of a blown opportunity it ended up being.

Elway now needs to get the rest of the pieces we need to accomplish the goal. Get a Big Beasting RB that can move the chains . Fix the middle of the O-line. Get a big penetrating DT to assist the pass rush and secure the secondary by improving there ( Champ to safety, New CB, legitimate MLB).
Get a deep threat, and slot WR). Get rid of the weak part of the coaching ( McCoy...please go elsewhere).

It is Elways job to get us there by putting pieces in place. No one thought we would get there this year, BEFORE the year. The window has NOT closed.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

BROKEN RECORD ALERT!

But i just feel the need.

I've never seen a fanbase turn on its best player so quickly. Obviously this doesn't go for all of you, but a lot are placing the blame on Manning and I have no clue why.

Yes, he wasn't perfect yesterday. Far from it. But, as ive said a bunch, he had a 100 rating going into that last Raven drive. He lead a beautiful drive to put us up 35-28. And, again, the Broncos win chances were 97.2 percent when Flacco let go of his hail mary or whatever you wanna call it. Again, we lost on a fluke play.

This guy transformed our team into a contender. Had that fluke play not happened, we'd all be talking about Peyton's good, but not perfect game and his gutty performance in some awful conditions (it was beyond cold in that stadium).

But, instead, a lot of you are whining and b****ing, and at least one of you would like to see Brock Osweiler as our QB next year.

Yes, he wasn't PERFECT, but if you're pointing fingers for yesterdays loss, you're gonna need to get to the second hand before you point to Peyton.

Well said! Unfortunately there's a lot of bitter beer face fans here. They are bitter because Shanny got the boot, they are bitter because TT was traded, they are bitter because they are just plane spoiled. It's too bad, but that is what message boards do, they bring out the nasty in people.

[Smiling Assassin27]

I agree with the OP, to an extent. Peyton had a super year coming off his injury and took Denver to a fine season. He had played well on saturday but was clearly not the same guy in the 4th quarter and beyond. The INT in OT was a cardinal sin and requires more recognition of the game situation. It was 2nd down, as i recall, and heaving it out of bounds is all everyone around us in their seats were yelling. That just can't happen. But saying he's a washout, etc., is to fail to understand where we were and what adding him did for the team.

Still, we brought Peyton here to win a super bowl, plain and simple. he's not just starting where he was also brought to indy to resurrect a franchise and city. hell, he was a main reason they got a new building and superbowl there. here, his ONE job is to win a super bowl. so in that respect, this season=fail for peyton. still, with a full offseason to work more on football and not rehab, i think they'll be back strong. now it's up to elway to fill in some holes (damn, doug martin would've looked good in denver).

[crawdad]

We got jobbed all day long by the refs in this game. The phantom holding call on Kuper when we made a 3rd and 1. The missed PI on the pick 6. Lots of things. But mostly our defense did not play well. We allowed 16 points per game on defense on average all year and let the damn Ravens score 35. Come on man! This loss is not on Manning!

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by crawdad

We got jobbed all day long by the refs in this game. The phantom holding call on Kuper when we made a 3rd and 1. The missed PI on the pick 6. Lots of things. But mostly our defense did not play well. We allowed 16 points per game on defense on average all year and let the damn Ravens score 35. Come on man! This loss is not on Manning!

Manning's not off the hook. 35 regulation points given up, 14 of which were off of PM turnovers. And the d held up through one full OT before Peyton handed the Rays the ball inside field goal range. It ain't pretty for anyone but Trindon.

[TonyR]

Good "defense of Peyton Manning" article:

...He walked off the field having left his team with a 95 percent chance of winning. The Ravens would take over after the ensuing punt on their own 23-yard line with more yards to go (77) than seconds left on the clock (69), and with no timeouts left barring some sort of four-timeout Harbaugh family trickery. They were done.

Enter Rahim Moore. Denver's second-year safety has had an impressive year as part of a surprising secondary, but on the biggest play of the year, Moore simply lost track of the ball in flight and got beat. If Moore does what virtually any safety serving as the last line of defense does on that play, he doesn't let the ball or a receiver get behind him, the pass gets broken up, and the Broncos almost surely win, which would mean that Manning had a good game. If Jacoby Jones delivers on his dismal postseason reputation from a year ago and drops the game-tying touchdown pass, the Broncos almost surely win, which means that Manning had a good game. If the Broncos get the sort of defensive/special teams miracle they seemed to get last year in overtime games with Tim Tebow, the Broncos almost surely win, which means that Manning had a good game...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...visional-games

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

35 regulation points given up, 14 of which were off of PM turnovers.

Worth noting that the pick-6 was not remotely Manning's fault...

[CEH]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

Manning made a bad call, doing his job.

Moore decided to NOT do his job.

There's no comparison.

I don't understand why more posters can get this through their heads.

Seems like they equate Moore's error at the same level as other errors

Phyical mistakes can be explained away i.e. Tory Smith is just too fast for Bailey Champ can't get faster in a footrace but a simple Pop Warner concept i.e. mental error is tough to swallow.

There is no way Flacco throws it down the middle no time left. The sideline is the only avenue to make a play. You know the coaches told the kid what to do .

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by TonyR

Worth noting that the pick-6 was not remotely Manning's fault...

It was PI but he should've led Decker more. Decker had to slow up on the slant which is what enabled the defender to hit him before the ball did. It wasn't a perfect throw by any stretch.