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Old 01-13-2013, 03:57 PM   #151
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Moore had a pretty good season, just had a bad play. Is it all on him ? I dont think so.. Where was the pass rush ? Didn't hear Von Miller, Dumerville, or Wolfs name once.. Well if you don't count jumping offsides.
Moore screwed the pooch on that play as did Tony Carter even though his initial assigment was on the inside.

But neither Moore nor Carter should have even been in a position of blame or heroics on that play which should NEVER have happened in a million years if only Foxy had shown some intelligence, common sense and a little courage to allow our HOF QB to WIN THE GAME when it was clearly on the line and we just needed a first down.

I'll live or die any day of the week and be happy with letting Manning run the show in that position, especially when the Ravens were fagging a bit and their season was slipping away and Manning had gotten back in the passing groove hte last 91 yard drive for a score.. Not to mention when were were down to our 3rd and 4th string RBs. Did Foxy really think we were going to get two first downs in a row with 3 up the middle plays!?!

I almost wish we had not scored on that last drive and it was up to Manning to drive us down and score for the lead and win with only 2:20 left at that point rather than with 7 minutes left as it happened.

Then Fox would have stayed the hell out of it and let Manning be Manning and win this game outright rather than taking the ball out of his hands because Foxy was too afraid of losing with an unlikely mistake in the passing game when just needing a first down, that he insured snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with a weak scared abdication call to try a few runs up the middle to burn a little time before punting.

I wont forgive Foxy this error until and unless he at least acknowledges his huge mistake and thus shows ANY sign that he realizes his too conservative tendency at the end of games is NOT a winning strategy in playoff caliber football!

NO way I would want to fire him .. that is ludicrous.. but Elway very much should dress him down and challenge him to own up to his own short comings and get someone else to make those kind of calls in crunch time in the future.

Fox should not ever even had the keys to such decision making at the end of games. He lacks the flexibility and open-mindedness to make the right call at the right time. Let him do what he does best, but dont expect a cat to suddenly start barking on cue!

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Old 01-13-2013, 04:04 PM   #152
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^Hula, I understand the sentiment about passing on that last 3rd down in regulation. Many seem to share it. I tend to disagree and think they made the high percentage decision there. The odds of scoring a TD in 1:15 from 80 yards with not TOs is extremely low. Plenty of coaching decisions to question, but I'm not sure this is one of them. Shouldn't have allowed that play under any circumstances. Massive failure by the defensive backfield.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:05 PM   #153
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Moore screwed the pooch on that play as did Tony Carter even though his initial assigment was on the inside.

But neither Moore nor Carter should have even been in a position of blame or heroics on that play which should NEVER have happened in a million years if only Foxy had shown some intelligence, common sense and a little courage to allow our HOF QB to WIN THE GAME when it was clearly on the line and we just needed a first down.

I'll live or die any day of the week, especially when the Ravens were fagging a bit and their season was slipping away and Manning had gotten back in the passing groove hte last 91 yard drive for a score..

I almost wish we had not scored on that last drive and it was up to Manning to drive us down and score with only 2:20 left at that point rather than with 7 minutes left.

Then Fox would have stayed the hell out of it and let Manning be Manning and win this game outright rather than taking the ball out of his hands because Foxy was too afraid of losing with an unlikely mistake in the passing game when just needing a first down, that he insured snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with a weak scared abdication call to try a few runs up the middle to burn a little time before punting.

I wont forgive Foxy this error until and unless he at least acknowledges his huge mistake and thus shows ANY sign that he realizes his too conservative tendency at the end of games is NOT a winning strategy in playoff caliber football!

NO way I would want to fire him .. that is ludicrous.. but Elway very much should dress him down and challenge him to own up to his own short comings and get someone else to make those kind of calls in crunch time in the future.

Fox should not ever even had the keys to such decision making at the end of games. He lacks the flexibility and open-mindedness to make the right call at the right time. Let him do what he does best, but dont expect a cat to suddenly start barking on cue!
All coaches have Ego.They are not going to change.
Marty lost more games than Fox by playing conservative.
He kept doing the same thing until he was fired.
The same can be said to shanny who kept ignoring the defensive line.
Their philosophy will never change.

The same can be said about players like cutler, favre.They will continue to take risk irrespective of the situation.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:16 PM   #154
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:27 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulamau View Post
Moore screwed the pooch on that play as did Tony Carter even though his initial assigment was on the inside.

But neither Moore nor Carter should have even been in a position of blame or heroics on that play which should NEVER have happened in a million years if only Foxy had shown some intelligence, common sense and a little courage to allow our HOF QB to WIN THE GAME when it was clearly on the line and we just needed a first down.

I'll live or die any day of the week and be happy with letting Manning run the show in that position, especially when the Ravens were fagging a bit and their season was slipping away and Manning had gotten back in the passing groove hte last 91 yard drive for a score.. Not to mention when were were down to our 3rd and 4th string RBs. Did Foxy really think we were going to get two first downs in a row with 3 up the middle plays!?!

I almost wish we had not scored on that last drive and it was up to Manning to drive us down and score for the lead and win with only 2:20 left at that point rather than with 7 minutes left as it happened.

Then Fox would have stayed the hell out of it and let Manning be Manning and win this game outright rather than taking the ball out of his hands because Foxy was too afraid of losing with an unlikely mistake in the passing game when just needing a first down, that he insured snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with a weak scared abdication call to try a few runs up the middle to burn a little time before punting.

I wont forgive Foxy this error until and unless he at least acknowledges his huge mistake and thus shows ANY sign that he realizes his too conservative tendency at the end of games is NOT a winning strategy in playoff caliber football!

NO way I would want to fire him .. that is ludicrous.. but Elway very much should dress him down and challenge him to own up to his own short comings and get someone else to make those kind of calls in crunch time in the future.

Fox should not ever even had the keys to such decision making at the end of games. He lacks the flexibility and open-mindedness to make the right call at the right time. Let him do what he does best, but dont expect a cat to suddenly start barking on cue!
Insert McCoy wherever Fox is in your sentences...He calls the offensive plays
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:59 PM   #156
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I think this sums it up pretty well, hopefully you will still talk on the draft forum, we have prospects to discuss.
I'll definitely pop in to do that. Senior Bowl week is on the way and that is always a highlight of the early sports year. There is going to be a lot of good things to discuss on that end.

Really, I want to just focus on how we can make this team better going forward. There are going to be a lot of crazed threads out there calling for heads to roll, but we had a pretty successful season and had good success. We clearly have deficiencies that need to be improved and I think this off-season will allow us to do that.

I'm always excited for the draft, but it would be interesting to see if we will make any big FA splashes or go the trade route to acquire talent on our roster. Never know what can happen.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:08 PM   #157
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hear that, the silence is deafening......................
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:29 PM   #158
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It's been 24 hours, have most of you back off the ledge yet? Or do we still want to fire Fox, cut Manning and trade Champ ect.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:40 PM   #159
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It's been 24 hours, have most of you back off the ledge yet? Or do we still want to fire Fox, cut Manning and trade Champ ect.
Posters here still discuss about 96 loss..This loss is similar to that one..
We simply choked..This loss will never be forgotten..

I lost confidence in Fox and manning..That combination is not going to work
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:49 PM   #160
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I was at this game, man. I haven't been back home since it ended until just about an hour ago, so I haven't read nothing. This one just hurts so bad. So so bad. I don't even know what to do. There is nothing to say.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:13 PM   #161
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I've been having a hard time putting my thoughts together after this loss. I don't think it's quite as painful at the Jags loss... Not nearly. We had ridden shotgun with Elway for so long, the hurt after that loss was deeper. This, however, isn't just a shrug for me. This was a real opportunity. This team was the most balanced team in the league this year. We c/sh/ould have won it all.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:19 PM   #162
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Still can't figure it out. I just don't get what happened. It's all a big WTF?!!!
mod note: probably NSFW
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2...d95a49c1d0.gif


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Old 01-13-2013, 09:25 PM   #163
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Still can't figure it out. I just don't get what happened. It's all a big WTF?!!!
mod note: probably NSFW
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2...d95a49c1d0.gif

Damn that guy got jacked up by that cake. But he doesn't have it nearly as bad as getting an inverse queef.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:50 PM   #164
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I've been having a hard time putting my thoughts together after this loss. I don't think it's quite as painful at the Jags loss... Not nearly. We had ridden shotgun with Elway for so long, the hurt after that loss was deeper. This, however, isn't just a shrug for me. This was a real opportunity. This team was the most balanced team in the league this year. We c/sh/ould have won it all.

It was eerie how this game unfolded and having similar emotions of the jags defeat. I agree this one wasn't quite as bad, but its still really tough to take. Its like a bad dream. I think everyone from fans, coaches to players thought we had this surely because we beat them before, plus we were at home now.

Its hard to sum it up in one sentence, but it seemed to be the day where the Broncos played one of the worst games of the year at the absolute worst time. Where the Ravens played one of their best games at the right time. I'm talking players & coaches. They knew what the Ravens would try and do, and Champ said they practiced for it? Really? PFM had some off throws, and there were some tough catches, but were dropped. Fox , McCoy, and Del Rio acted as if they rode the short bus to the stadium.

For the first season of Manning coming back & the team coming together like they did was awesome, and I felt we were true contenders. We all know we are a better team that showed up on Saturday, and thats what really hurts.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:52 PM   #165
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^Hula, I understand the sentiment about passing on that last 3rd down in regulation. Many seem to share it. I tend to disagree and think they made the high percentage decision there. The odds of scoring a TD in 1:15 from 80 yards with not TOs is extremely low. Plenty of coaching decisions to question, but I'm not sure this is one of them. Shouldn't have allowed that play under any circumstances. Massive failure by the defensive backfield.
You seem to be thinking playoff football and regular season football are the same thing. They aren't. Conservative coaching works in the regular season but has been proven to be a disastrous failure in the playoffs, at least from the 80's era on. There's a reason that conservative coaches like Fox aren't common like they were in the 70's: it doesn't produce championships anymore.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:07 PM   #166
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I think it comes down to conservative play calling and those who chose to be conservative need to be held accountable.

Firing John Fox would be stupid, but firing Mike McCoy would be justifiable.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:09 PM   #167
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I think it comes down to conservative play calling and those who chose to be conservative need to be held accountable.

Firing John Fox would be stupid, but firing Mike McCoy would be justifiable.
No need. He'll be leaving to coach elsewhere. Maybe Sandy Eggo.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:10 PM   #168
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Rahim Moore being in position on a Hail Mary seals the deal. So many chances wasted
Raheem and Prater are my goats.

I think the Safeties were out of position all game long.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:11 PM   #169
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I've been having a hard time putting my thoughts together after this loss. I don't think it's quite as painful at the Jags loss... Not nearly. We had ridden shotgun with Elway for so long, the hurt after that loss was deeper. This, however, isn't just a shrug for me. This was a real opportunity. This team was the most balanced team in the league this year. We c/sh/ould have won it all.
I think we need a better Run game by that I mean both Talent and by design.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:11 PM   #170
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No need. He'll be leaving to coach elsewhere. Maybe Sandy Eggo.
Lets hope so!
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:18 PM   #171
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Lets hope so!
I don't agree. He did an excellent job. This year and last year.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:30 PM   #172
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^Hula, I understand the sentiment about passing on that last 3rd down in regulation. Many seem to share it. I tend to disagree and think they made the high percentage decision there. The odds of scoring a TD in 1:15 from 80 yards with not TOs is extremely low. Plenty of coaching decisions to question, but I'm not sure this is one of them. Shouldn't have allowed that play under any circumstances. Massive failure by the defensive backfield.
Hi Tony,

I agree that Foxy/McCoy were taking what they considered the 'high percentage odds' in going backassward conservative when they did! That's exactly my point.

A coach who has what it takes to really shine in the post season has to know when stats matter and when to throw them out the window when the critical moment arrives and the scenario begs for boldness and strength and letting your very best player rule the day and play to WIN this thing.

Rather than play tentative and calculating against a team in desparation but dangerous like a coiled snake and not at all afraid to go for it in any way possible when and if we gave them the ball back.

I know the secondary screwed up with Moore asleep at the wheel, but he should never have been in that position with at least a deliberate but still careful attempt to make that first down and end the misery!

Manning could easily choose from the safest selection of pass plays they had for gaining 5 to 7 yards at a clip and mix them in with runs for those three downs with easily less risk of interception than giving the opponent the ball back with time and then with it a huge shot in the arm for them in the form of a real chance.. slim though it may have appeared .. it was far better than no chance at all!

Its not as if they hadn't abused our secondary several times that day already on similarly long surprising bombs! Obbviously Fox/
By choosing as Foxy/McCoy did they in essence chose to put their faith not in Peyton Manning's arm to win the game, but in Jacob Hester and Rahim Moore!!! Who here honestly thinks that was the better bargain?!?

And I'm sorry, but not even trying to pass three or four good passes with 30 seconds left and 3 time outs from our own 20 with Manning and all our WR and TEs avaiable was Idiotic cowardice and again simply reflected this '' more afraid to lose than he is willing to grab for that win now!

Ravens win the coin toss and then pin us deep in our own territory from where it all unraveled.

The thing that made me particularly mad was that this was so predictable from Foxy using the same tactics in the fourth quarter of nearly every game we had a 7 to 10 point+ lead in in the 7 to 10 minutes of the game!

Its a bad precedent and teaches players to try to be calculating and play always the 'safe' card when time it tight and we are nursing a small lead. and in so doing they get in the habit of turning off the fire hose before the fire and smoke are extinquished .. that if frequently a good way to get burned!

This killed the momentum we had and immediately injected new life into a dead tired and borderline demoralized Ravens team at that point. We gave them back that wing and a prayer shot they desperately needed and they gladly took full and grateful advantage of it with a very strong armed QB that is renowned for completing just those kind of long bombs too as his signature play!!

Screw the odds and stats in critical playoff junctures at the end od games! Instead, just look at the reality of how they have been playing and how we had been playing. Manning was back in the groove and moving us down field at will with a mix of run and pass at that point.

If coach gives Manning the green light so he knows that it was all on him to get that first down or bust then Id bet my house seven days a week and twice on Sunday on Peyton getting that first down with a very safe pass to Stokely, Tamme or Decker right then and there and we'd all be celebrating right now instead of trying to pick ourselves up off the floor and get the plates on that truck that just ran is over!

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Old 01-14-2013, 02:44 AM   #173
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Why the hate on McCoy? It looked to me like Peyton was constantly checking out of plays. Who really called the game, PM or McCoy?

This is why some coaches don't want the QB constantly changing plays. I would think that it really throws a wrench in any semblance of a game plan?
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:21 AM   #174
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Hula, I agree that overall the coaching staff was too conservative in this game. Most notable to me was that decision to run on third down with Hester, but I think it's possible Manning audibled into that play. I also think they should have taken a shot with the ball and two time outs at the end of regulation rather than kneeling. But I don't think the situation you're talking about called for anything but conservative. I don't think giving the ball back with ~75 seconds, ~80 yards, and no time outs is much of a gamble whereas passing the ball on third down is. The fact that they played the odds and lost is unfortunate, but that happened only because of a massive, lucky, highly unlikely failure. If we won like we should have nobody would be talking about this. Since the Ravens won on a miracle play it's being overblown.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:33 AM   #175
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Haven't posted since the game. Was pretty bummed out. I was shocked at end of regulation. Ill probably take a couple weeks off got alot on my hands working two jobs. See yall around draft!
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