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Old 01-06-2013, 10:34 AM   #226
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:41 AM   #227
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I just want Elway's the GM's legacy to be more than bringing in Manning. He's done a lot to re-engage the fanbase, but I would really like to see him continue to excel in the years beyond.

If things dont' work out down the road, the short sided people will attribute all of his success to Manning, disrgarding the other excellent work he's done in putting this team around Peyton.

I just don't want to see all the threads and posts that Elway only succeeded with Manning, similari to the bone heads that try to discredit Shanahan because he had Elway as his QB.
Yeah, you could tell he was really behind drafting Miller (not that others werent). The way he described the tape of Miller made it obvious that he was big on Miller. Dareus is a nice player, but I think Miller makes a bigger impact in today's NFL. Miller is the more dynamic player, which is what Elway was describing when watching his tape. You should get a great player at #2, but it's been screwed up many times by many with more experience.

But I think Broderick Bunkley is, perhaps, the greatest example of how adeptly Elway has handled himself. He brings in Bunkley. At the time, a lot of people thought he was just another big body. But then Bunkley made Elway look good by doing really well. In that situations, GMs typically fall in love with the guy because they feel like that player validated how smart they are. A lot of GMs would then throw a lot of money at that player. Did Elway? No. He let Bunkley walk. Have the Broncos missed Bunkley? He's a nice player but the team has done fine without him. It would have been so easy for Elway to throw a bunch of money at Bunkley--it happens to a lot of GMs. But he avoided this trap.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:46 AM   #228
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Yeah, you could tell he was really behind drafting Miller (not that others werent). The way he described the tape of Miller made it obvious that he was big on Miller. Dareus is a nice player, but I think Miller makes a bigger impact in today's NFL. Miller is the more dynamic player, which is what Elway was describing when watching his tape. You should get a great player at #2, but it's been screwed up many times by many with more experience.

But I think Broderick Bunkley is, perhaps, the greatest example of how adeptly Elway has handled himself. He brings in Bunkley. At the time, a lot of people thought he was just another big body. But then Bunkley made Elway look good by doing really well. In that situations, GMs typically fall in love with the guy because they feel like that player validated how smart they are. A lot of GMs would then throw a lot of money at that player. Did Elway? No. He let Bunkley walk. Have the Broncos missed Bunkley? He's a nice player but the team has done fine without him. It would have been so easy for Elway to throw a bunch of money at Bunkley--it happens to a lot of GMs. But he avoided this trap.
Excellent point about Bunkley. It was a win-win for both the Broncos and Bunkley. Bunkley played above expectations and helped the Broncos get to the post season and win a playoff game, and in turn Bunkley hit the FA market looking good for another big contract. He got mo-money from the Saints, so be it. Elway was willing to let Bunkley walk knowing he was replaceable.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:06 AM   #229
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Whoever uploaded that should be canonized.



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Old 01-06-2013, 11:17 AM   #230
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That is greatness.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:21 AM   #231
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Whoever uploaded that should be canonized.



I love that video. I think for a while TJ had it at the top of the discussion page. I've played that video 10-20 times and I still .
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:48 AM   #232
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It was stupider (or should that be "more stupid" for grammatical correctness?) to fire Marty and hire Norv... to date, they've never returned to 14-2 and were hovering in the 7-9 win range 4 of Norv's six seasons. They only went deeper in the playoffs (than the Divisional game that was Marty's last as their HC) one time and still fell short of a SB appearance; much less a win.

As for Marty's teams ever winning any playoff games... seeing as how it was in the AFCCG that John sent Marty's Browns home in January of '87 and '88, well... you don't get to play in the AFCCG without winning in the Divisional round of the playoffs, right? Anyway, I count 5 playoff wins for Marty's teams, including the most recent playoff game the Chefs ever won on January 16, 1993.
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...es/SchoMa0.htm

I don't care how much an owner has bought into a very young, unproven HC's scheme... he has to rethink things and begin to suspect that said unproven HC might not be the answer after all... if the team slides to its lowest win total since 1971 (1982 wasn't a full season). After the 6-game winning streak to start the '09 season, something bad must have happened during the bye... 'cause the team proceeded to go on 4 separate 4-game losing streaks in the remainder of his tenure. I don't care how you spin it, Lonestar... 28 games coached... with a win/loss total of 9 - 17 (subtracting Studesville's 1-3 record) does not earn another season in which to continue down what had obviously become a downhill spiral. The only responsible thing Bowlen could do at that point was to take the team out of free-fall and try to salvage as much as he could while there was still something left to save. You can't realistically think there was any chance that Bowlen would have decided vying for "worst team in the league rather than merely the runner-up" and #1 overall in the 2012 draft was a viable option. Even if it would have netted us Luck.
While I understand your point.

Pat also has to look at the talent the Josh. Has brought in and wither believes that talent will come around soon or not. And if he brings in another HC will he start over also.

Pat has seen enough if the CLE, STL, OAK and CIN debacles to know sometimes you just have to stick with the guy you liked. Itnisnnot like he did not have the pick of the litter when he chose Josh.

IMO had it not been for the spy gate I think he would have gotten another year. At worst he would have hired a qualified GM and maybe even John to bring the fans back knowing there was a star holding the team together.

Perhaps had John said he had to go then maybe Pat/John would have pulled the plug.
No one really knows why pat choose like he did.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:54 AM   #233
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While I understand your point.

Pat also has to look at the talent the Josh. Has brought in and wither believes that talent will come around soon or not. And if he brings in another HC will he start over also.

Pat has seen enough if the CLE, STL, OAK and CIN debacles to know sometimes you just have to stick with the guy you liked. Itnisnnot like he did not have the pick of the litter when he chose Josh.

IMO had it not been for the spy gate I think he would have gotten another year. At worst he would have hired a qualified GM and maybe even John to bring the fans back knowing there was a star holding the team together.

Perhaps had John said he had to go then maybe Pat/John would have pulled the plug.
No one really knows why pat choose like he did.
What's sad is that the Broncos were 4-12, and someone thinks it took spygate to do Josh in. What's even more sad, is that this might actually be right.

Anyway, there's no way in hell Elway was going to endorse McDaniels.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:46 PM   #234
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It was stupider (or should that be "more stupid" for grammatical correctness?) to fire Marty and hire Norv... to date, they've never returned to 14-2 and were hovering in the 7-9 win range 4 of Norv's six seasons. They only went deeper in the playoffs (than the Divisional game that was Marty's last as their HC) one time and still fell short of a SB appearance; much less a win.

As for Marty's teams ever winning any playoff games... seeing as how it was in the AFCCG that John sent Marty's Browns home in January of '87 and '88, well... you don't get to play in the AFCCG without winning in the Divisional round of the playoffs, right? Anyway, I count 5 playoff wins for Marty's teams, including the most recent playoff game the Chefs ever won on January 16, 1993.
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...es/SchoMa0.htm

I don't care how much an owner has bought into a very young, unproven HC's scheme... he has to rethink things and beginin to suspect that said unproven HC might not be the answer after all... if the team slides to its lowest win total since 1971 (1982 wasn't a full season). After the 6-game winning streak to start the '09 season, something bad must have happened during the bye... 'cause the team proceeded to go on 4 separate 4-game losing streaks in the remainder of his tenure. I don't care how you spin it, Lonestar... 28 games coached... with a win/loss total of 9 - 17 (subtracting Studesville's 1-3 record) does not earn another season in which to continue down what had obviously become a downhill spiral. The only responsible thing Bowlen could do at that point was to take the team out of free-fall and try to salvage as much as he could while there was still something left to save. You can't realistically think there was any chance that Bowlen would have decided vying for "worst team in the league rather than merely the runner-up" and #1 overall in the 2012 draft was a viable option. Even if it would have netted us Luck.
While I understand your point.

Pat also has to look at the talent the Josh. Has brought in and wither believes that talent will come around soon or not. And if he brings in another HC will he start over also.

Pat has seen enough if the CLE, STL, OAK and CIN debacles to know sometimes you just have to stick with the guy you liked. Itnisnnot like he did not have the pick of the litter when he chose Josh.

IMO had it not been for the spy gate I think he would have gotten another year. At worst he would have hired a qualified GM and maybe even John to bring the fans back knowing there was a star holding the team together.

Perhaps had John said he had to go then maybe Pat/John would have pulled the plug.
No one really knows why pat choose like he did.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:50 PM   #235
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What's sad is that the Broncos were 4-12, and someone thinks it took spygate to do Josh in. What's even more sad, is that this might actually be right.

Anyway, there's no way in hell Elway was going to endorse McDaniels.
You know this because you have talked to John?

You have no idea what he what do if Josh knew he was in total charge of anything but game day prep and game say calls. Do you?
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:00 PM   #236
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You know this because you have talked to John?
Wow, you're not much of a thinker.

Elway has already said that he would have never traded Cutler. Not only that but the coache he hired to replace Joshy was the total opposite of Joshy. And then there's the matter of his comments in the article posted in the OP.

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You have no idea what he what do if Josh knew he was in total charge of anything but game day prep and game say calls. Do you?
No, I'm quite confident that I do have some idea.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:04 PM   #237
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If you don't think Elway had Bowlen's ear before he was even hired you weren't paying attention

Elway hates everything McD

I sure Elway told Bowlen to fire the prick before the season ended. They had a handshake agreement for a while before Elway actually took over

It's pretty much common knowledge here around town
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:09 PM   #238
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Wow, you're not much of a thinker.

Elway has already said that he would have never traded Cutler. Not only that but the coache he hired to replace Joshy was the total opposite of Joshy. And then there's the matter of his comments in the article posted in the OP.



No, I'm quite confident that I do have some idea.
Joshy that the best you got.

What the comment was about cutlet was at best would have been just a part of the decision making process.

John is smart enough to know that changing coaching anD schemes. Like underwear causes just that more confusion and time to get there. (Promised land). Any way it is academic. John never had the chance to make the decision.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:13 PM   #239
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Joshy that the best you got.

What the comment was about cutlet was at best would have been just a part of the decision making process.

John is smart enough to know that changing coaching anD schemes. Like underwear causes just that more confusion and time to get there. (Promised land). Any way it is academic. John never had the chance to make the decision.
Weak. Wow, that was unbelievably lame. Most of that made no sense.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:16 PM   #240
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If you don't think Elway had Bowlen's ear before he was even hired you weren't paying attention

Elway hates everything McD

I sure Elway told Bowlen to fire the prick before the season ended. They had a handshake agreement for a while before Elway actually took over

It's pretty much common knowledge here around town
Since I do not live in town hard for me to know that.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:19 PM   #241
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Someone has a mouth full of McDaniels. Gurgle, gurgle, daft doodle.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:30 PM   #242
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Since I do not live in town hard for me to know that.
You don't need to live here. Just be informed like the fact Bowlen and Elway had dinner together at Elways' the day McD was fired. There were clues the whole month of Dec 2010
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:32 PM   #243
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You don't need to live here. Just be informed like the fact Bowlen and Elway had dinner together at Elways' the day McD was fired. There were clues the whole month of Dec 2010
Yes, but he thinks you know this by radar.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:37 PM   #244
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Joshy that the best you got.

What the comment was about cutlet was at best would have been just a part of the decision making process.

John is smart enough to know that changing coaching anD schemes. Like underwear causes just that more confusion and time to get there. (Promised land). Any way it is academic. John never had the chance to make the decision.
True that you don't want to change coaching staffs to often. But what does it say about the situation that Mr.Bowlen was willing to make the change 3/4 through the season. Whatever the reason it was dire to the future of the team. Whether you think Spygate was a big deal or not. Or trading away a franchise QB and WR and getting nothing in return was a good thing or not. It all came down to the direction where the Broncos were going. To bad for Mcdumbass that everything was pointing down for the Broncos.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:57 PM   #245
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While I understand your point.

Pat also has to look at the talent the Josh. Has brought in and wither believes that talent will come around soon or not. And if he brings in another HC will he start over also.

Pat has seen enough if the CLE, STL, OAK and CIN debacles to know sometimes you just have to stick with the guy you liked. Itnisnnot like he did not have the pick of the litter when he chose Josh.

IMO had it not been for the spy gate I think he would have gotten another year. At worst he would have hired a qualified GM and maybe even John to bring the fans back knowing there was a star holding the team together.

Perhaps had John said he had to go then maybe Pat/John would have pulled the plug.
No one really knows why pat choose like he did.
Doesn't it stand to reason that if Elway perceived the situation when he took over as: "the Broncos were in the worst shape ever", then surely Bowlen had to have noticed it too and concurred? As has been noted earlier in the thread, Elway was in a position to know what was really going on in discussions behind closed doors... he was "in the loop" and his words most definitely aren't an endorsement of McDaniels or an indication that he (John) believed McDaniels should have been given another season. I'm genuinely interested in seeing quotes from anyone in the Broncos' front office that could possibly be construed to suggest that there was any chance of retaining a coach who had done so much damage to the franchise in such a short time frame.

I believe Elway does, in fact know why Pat chose like he did... and Elway didn't mince any words (he's pretty much flat-out contradicting your hypothesis).
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:00 PM   #246
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While I understand your point.

Pat also has to look at the talent the Josh. Has brought in and wither believes that talent will come around soon or not. And if he brings in another HC will he start over also.

Pat has seen enough if the CLE, STL, OAK and CIN debacles to know sometimes you just have to stick with the guy you liked. Itnisnnot like he did not have the pick of the litter when he chose Josh.

IMO had it not been for the spy gate I think he would have gotten another year. At worst he would have hired a qualified GM and maybe even John to bring the fans back knowing there was a star holding the team together.

Perhaps had John said he had to go then maybe Pat/John would have pulled the plug.
No one really knows why pat choose like he did.
Illegible.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:03 PM   #247
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If you every find yourself wondering how bad of a coach McD really was just turn on a Seahawk game and watch Lynch run.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:04 PM   #248
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Once again attack the poster opposed to debate the post. Typical.
There are some pretty bright, experienced and insightful people on this forum and I thank Taco for facilitating it. You on the other hand are more interested in your localized, self absorbed perspectives which lack merit. Hmmmm, who might the bright poster choose?

You seem like a decent student of the game but your perspective is hyper-frequently antiquated with your opinion that holds no merit. The interesting thing is that you don't see that you're the void. Evaluate that and get back.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:11 AM   #249
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Many times reference is made to the tendencies of the Broncos.
1. the Broncos fade down the stretch.

2. The Broncos fade late in games.

3. The Broncos do not play well when traveling East and playing in early games

All these tendencies are based on the Broncos teams of the first half of the 2000 decade but this is not your Broncos of that earlier time. I was curious about the tenure of the coaching staff. The oldest tenured coach came to the Broncos in 2007 and that is an assistant special teams coach. Here is a list of the current coaches and their tenure. We are a remade team.

We really do have the building blocks of possible dynasty and it starts with Elway.

Clancy Barone
Tight Ends; born July 26, 1963, San Andreas, Calif. Offensive lineman Sacramento State 1981-82, Nevada 1985-86. No pro playing experience. College coach: American River (Calif.) J.C. 1987-89, Sacramento State 1990-92, Texas A&M 1993, Eastern Illinois 1994-96, Wyoming 1997-99, Houston 2000-02, Texas State 2003. Pro coach: Atlanta Falcons 2004-06, San Diego Chargers 2007-08, joined Broncos in 2009.

Keith Burns
Assistant Special Teams; born May 16, 1972, Greeleyville, S.C. Linebacker Oklahoma State 1991-94. Pro linebacker Denver Broncos 1994-98, 2000-03, 2005-06, Chicago Bears 1999, Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2004. Pro coach: Joined Broncos in 2007.

Brian Callahan
Quality Control/Offense; born June 10, 1984, Champaign, Ill. Quarterback UCLA 2002-05. No pro playing experience. College coach: UCLA 2006-07. Pro coach: Joined the Broncos in 2010.

Jack Del Rio
Defensive Coordinator; born April 4, 1963, Castro Valley, California. Linebacker USC 1981-84. Linebacker New Orleans Saints, 1985-86, Kansas City Chiefs 1987-88, Dallas Cowboys 1989-91, Minnesota Vikings 1992-95, Miami Dolphins, 1996. Pro coach: Baltimore Ravens, 1999-01, Carolina Panthers, 2002, Jacksonville Jaguars 2003-11 (head coach). Joined Broncos in 2012.
Mike Eubanks
assistant Strength and Conditioning; born Dec. 31, 1980. Safety, University of Wisconsin-Eau-Claire 2000-02. No pro playing experience. College coach: Arizona State 2008-09. Pro coach: Jacksonville Jaguars 2009-11. Joined Broncos in 2012.

Adam Gase
Quarterbacks; born March 29, 1978, Ypsilanti, Mich. Attended Michigan State. No college or pro playing experience. College coach: Louisiana State 2000-02. Pro coach: Detroit Lions 2003-08. Joined Broncos in 2009.

Sam Garnes
Assistant Secondary; born July 12, 1974, Bronx, N.Y. Safety Cincinnati 1992- 96. Pro safety N.Y. Giants 1997-01, N.Y. Jets 2002-03. Pro coach: Cologne Centurions (NFL Europe) 2006, Las Vegas Locomotives (UFL) 2009, Carolina Panthers 2010, joined Broncos in 2011.

Jason George
Assistant Strength and Conditioning; born October 3, 1968, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Safety Manitoba 1991-92. No pro playing experience. College coach: Kansas 1997-98, Fordham 1998-08. Pro coach: Jacksonville Jaguars 2009-11. Joined Broncos in 2012.
Anthony Lomando
Assistant Strength and Conditioning; born Oct. 4, 1982, Katy, Texas. No pro playing experience. Pro coach: Jacksonville Jaguars 2010-11. Joined Broncos in 2012.

David Magazu
Offensive Line; born June 10, 1957, Taunton Mass. Defensive tackle Springfield College 1976-79. No pro playing experience. College coach: Ithaca 1980, Western Michigan 1981, Eastern Michigan 1982, Michigan 1983, Northern Illinois 1984, Ball State 1985-86, Navy 1987-89, Indiana State 1990-91, Colorado State 1992-94, Kentucky 1995-96, Memphis 1997-98, Boston College 1999-02. Pro coach: Carolina Panthers 2003-10, joined Broncos in 2011.

Mike McCoy
Offensive Coordinator; born April 1, 1972, San Francisco. Quarterback Long Beach State 1990-91, Utah 1992-94. Pro quarterback Amsterdam Admirals (NFLE) 1997, Calgary Stampeders (CFL) 1999. Pro coach: Carolina Panthers 1999-08. Joined Broncos in 2009.

Ron Milus
Secondary; born November 25, 1963, Tacoma, Wash. Cornerback Washington 1982-85. College coach: Washington 1991-98, Texas A&M 1999. Pro coach: Denver Broncos 2000-02, Arizona Cardinals 2003, New York Giants 2004-05, St. Louis Rams 2006-08, Carolina Panthers 2009-10, joined Broncos in 2011.

Wayne Nunnely
Defensive Line; born March 29, 1952, Los Angeles. Fullback Nevada-Las Vegas 1972-75. No pro playing experience. College coach: Nevada-Las Vegas 1976, 1982-89 (head coach 1986-89), Cal Poly-Pomona 1977-78, Cal State-Fullerton 1979, Pacific 1980-81, Southern California 1991-92, UCLA 1993-94. Pro coach: New Orleans Saints 1995-96, San Diego Chargers 1997-08. Joined the Broncos in 2009.

Luke Richesson
Strength and Conditioning; born April 29, 1974, Kansas City, Missouri. Defensive back Kansas 1992- 96. No pro playing experience. College coach: Wyoming 1998, Arizona State 1999-00. Pro coach: Jacksonville Jaguars, 2009-11. Joined Broncos in 2012.

Jay Rodgers
Quality Control/Defense; born Aug. 29, 1976, in St. Paul, Minn. Quarterback Indiana University, Missouri State 1996-00. College coach: Ohio State 2000, LSU 2001-02, Missouri State 2004, Stephen F. Austin 2005-06, Iowa State 2007-08. Pro coach: Joined Broncos in 2009.

Jeff Rodgers
Special Teams Coordinator; linebacker, North Texas 1996-99. College coach: Arizona 2001-02, Kansas State 2008. Pro coach: San Francisco 49ers 2003-07, Carolina Panthers 2009-10, joined Broncos in 2011.

Richard Smith
Linebackers; born October17, 1955, Los Angeles. Offensive lineman Rio Hondo (Calif.) J.C. 1975-76, Fresno State 1977-78. College coach: Rio Hondo (Calif.) J.C. 1979-80, Cal State-Fullerton 1981-83, California 1984-86, Arizona 1987. Pro coach: Houston Oilers 1988-92, Denver Broncos 1993-96, San Francisco 49ers 1997-02, Detroit Lions 2003-04, Miami Dolphins 2005, Houston Texans 2006-08, Carolina Panthers 2009-10, joined Broncos in 2011.

Eric Studesville
Running Backs; born May 29, 1967, Madison, Wis. Defensive back Wisconsin-Whitewater 1985-88. No pro playing experience. College coach: Wingate 1994, Kent State 1995-96. Pro coach: Chicago Bears 1997-00, New York Giants 2001-03, Buffalo Bills 2004-09. Joined the Broncos in 2010.

Tyke Tolbert
Wide Receivers; Wide receiver, Louisiana State 1988-90. College coach: Louisiana State 1994 (spring), Northeast Louisiana 1994 (fall), Ohio 1995 (spring), Northeast Louisiana 1995-97, Auburn 1998, Louisiana-Lafayette 1999-01, Florida 2002. Pro coach: Arizona Cardinals 2003, Buffalo Bills 2004-09, Carolina Panthers 2010, joined Broncos in 2011.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:52 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by CEH View Post
You don't need to live here. Just be informed like the fact Bowlen and Elway had dinner together at Elways' the day McD was fired. There were clues the whole month of Dec 2010
I guess I should be up to date on who had dinner with who, but it does not make the local news just feeds us the texans and cowgirls info. If that so y'all have access to some stuff I and many other fans do not.

If that did happen the timing makes since. In fact I suspect they had conversations prior to the firings.

Thanks for the info.
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