getting around the debt ceiling fight.

[Arkie]

Why don't they just mint a $20 trillion coin to deposit at the Fed Reserve? Then we would be running a surplus. It's obvious the government will keep spending more anyway. I'd rather have debt free inflation than inflation created by more debt. This would save us trillions of dollars in interest payments over the next 10 years. The Federal Reserve will fight this.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

Since you seem to know everything explain what happens with interest rates nation wide for mortgages,small business loans skyrocket, how it will put us into a dbl dip recession, if not worse a depression.
You act as if the worse thing that happens is a few things don't get paid out.

Bad things happen when you make bad investments. We have significantly more people than jobs yet we continue to just import everything from China. We need a mentality change as much as anything. Some tough times need to lay ahead to divert us from the status quo.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

There is no question we must cut back spending, there is no choice. But we must also find revenue as cuts alone won't be enough, the deficit is too large.

Any members of the house who hold the economy hostage to the debt ceiling, should be recalled for incompetence and fiscal sabotage. When will the country say 'enough' and mean it?

Fiscal sabotage? Maybe in the short term. Long term, responsibility is very likely the safest option but it'll result in significantly more unrest in the short term. It's just a philosophical difference but why pass on an opportunity for hyperbole, right?

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

What it means is the govt needs to stop spending so much more then they bring in. Obviously we will run deficits. In some ways they aren't as bad as we make them out to be. It's just its getting bigger at almost 2 times the rate under Obama. Even when you take out the war spending it will still be getting bigger.

I'd prefer the government just do the necessary tasks and avoid speculation and gambling on economic manipulation. Fund everything before implementation, pay down the debt, and build on a safe foundation.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

Fiscal sabotage? Maybe in the short term. Long term, responsibility is very likely the safest option but it'll result in significantly more unrest in the short term. It's just a philosophical difference but why pass on an opportunity for hyperbole, right?

Nothing responsible about taking an action such as default.

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

Fiscal sabotage? Maybe in the short term. Long term, responsibility is very likely the safest option but it'll result in significantly more unrest in the short term. It's just a philosophical difference but why pass on an opportunity for hyperbole, right?

Paying our bills is a philosophical difference?? Since when?

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Because every program has its own lobby buying its own congressmen. Read this: http://www.businessinsider.com/congr...-tanks-2012-10

Until the corrupting influence of money is removed from government, you'll never do anything about it, regardless of which ideological path you wish to follow. The first day a congressmen enters office, he gets right to work raising money to run again in two years. And for the next two years, he will spend the majority of his time raising money. What kind of system is that?

We need term limits and a law saying you can't be a lobbyist until you have been out of govt for say...... 5 yrs? Then maybe make the terms the serve for a bit longer. For instance you serve one yr term as senator and you are done, then you have to work private sector for 3-5 yrs before you can lobby the govt etc etc.

Then maybe increase their salaries a little to attract higher quality people. But in exchange we need to make punishment for graft and corruption at the public service level more harsh.

[Arkie]

Don't increase their salaries. Give them incentives based on their performance. Their pay goes up if our deficit comes down, for example.

[peacepipe]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2425940.html
Greg Walden R-ore is trying to introduce legislation banning the minting of trillion dollar.
Time - Politics

Walden's legislation also implicitly acknowledges that "the platinum option" is, in fact, legal.

If Obama ever invoke "the platinum option" -- and he has so far offered no indication that he would seriously consider it -- the existence of Walden's bill could be used to support a court case in defense of the move.

[Fedaykin]

It's hilarious to see all the people simultaneously arguing about the high cost of interest payments and arguing that we shouldn't increase the debt limit.

Just what do you guys think is going to happen when we default on those loan payments?

Meanwhile, we and our allies spend 10x more on military than any remotely potential aggressor does, yet a large contingent of ****ing pussies argues that making significant cuts to military spending isn't something we should do because "zomg the Chinese!".

[cutthemdown]

We have to increase the debt limit but i don't feel sorry for Obama considering the crap he talked when he was a Senator regarding the debt limit.

Obama can make a few cuts to something in exchange for having it raised whats the big deal?

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Arkie

Don't increase their salaries. Give them incentives based on their performance. Their pay goes up if our deficit comes down, for example.

Until we change the code for the tax zones we are screwed. Out govt has to make a program that allows compaines to make money overseas, return it to America and invest it without paying tax. Right now because tax is high they just leave it overseas.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Until we change the code for the tax zones we are screwed. Out govt has to make a program that allows compaines to make money overseas, return it to America and invest it without paying tax. Right now because tax is high they just leave it overseas.

That's stupid, here we are needing more revenue & you want to create a situation where there is even less revenue.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

We have to increase the debt limit but i don't feel sorry for Obama considering the crap he talked when he was a Senator regarding the debt limit.

Obama can make a few cuts to something in exchange for having it raised whats the big deal?

The big deal is you have a political party willing to crash the U.S. economy in order to get what they want. As I've stated before,you don't negotiate with anyone under these circumstances, if rethugs want to break their oath & violate our constitution,then so be it.

[Rohirrim]

The U.S. spends nearly a trillion dollars a year on defense. China spends about $136 billion. Oh, and we still have the Pacific Ocean on one side of us, and the Atlantic on the other.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

That's stupid, here we are needing more revenue & you want to create a situation where there is even less revenue.

You kidding this idea was floated by Bill Clinton it would create tons of revenue. Right now the govt gets nothing from that revenue. It stays in the countries it was made in, or goes to other offshore banks.

Right now they just leave it all out of the USA and the govt makes no revenue. So how could my idea result in a revenue decrease? We need a different tax zone for our corp that do biz overseas. This isn't a big super conservative point. If it was me I would drop it from the 35% we try and get, to something more like 10%. But in exchange we close the loophole and tell companies they have to bring back at least 50% of the profit the generate overseas.

Trust me you do that and it would mean billions for our economy. Clinton even threw out the possibility of a one time amnesty with no tax paid but only for a short time. Then you go with the reduced rate like 10%. You tell companies you have 6 mos to return money and invest in in the USA and pay no tax on it. He explained it would be like a private sector stimulus.

[Meck77]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

The U.S. spends nearly a trillion dollars a year on defense. China spends about $136 billion. Oh, and we still have the Pacific Ocean on one side of us, and the Atlantic on the other.

Trillions spent and we don't even protect our own borders. Somehow I doubt that millions of people just walk into China with guns and drugs on their backs then march into their schools and hospitals and get free services.

[houghtam]

Originally Posted by Meck77

Trillions spent and we don't even protect our own borders. Somehow I doubt that millions of people just walk into China with guns and drugs on their backs then march into their schools and hospitals and get free services.

Something tells me the Chinese don't also have a statue that says "Give me your tired, your poor..."

But yeah, immigrants are our problem.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

Paying our bills is a philosophical difference?? Since when?

I haven't been back in the WRP in a few weeks so didn't see you responded here but I agree that the constitution forces us to pay our bills. I just think forcing those bills at the expense of other things can be a good thing. Show us we don't need xyz. If we have a blank check, we never have to really analyze anything.

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

I haven't been back in the WRP in a few weeks so didn't see you responded here but I agree that the constitution forces us to pay our bills. I just think forcing those bills at the expense of other things can be a good thing. Show us we don't need xyz. If we have a blank check, we never have to really analyze anything.

Holding the debt ceiling hostage to leverage one party's agenda is wrong.

We have collectively run up the bill, there shouldn't be one word of debate about paying it.

The only effect would be another downgrade and the destabilizing of the market and the economy. Enough.

[Arkie]

Here's the Budget crisis in 3D.

Budget Talks & Fiscal Cliff - Explained - Cheat Sheet

It's impossible to raise taxes enough to meet current spending. The 2013 deficit will increase instead of decrease.

[Cito Pelon]

Hoo-rah. I hear the Senate has formulated a deal to limit filibusters. This is a big deal.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

Holding the debt ceiling hostage to leverage one party's agenda is wrong.

We have collectively run up the bill, there shouldn't be one word of debate about paying it.

The only effect would be another downgrade and the destabilizing of the market and the economy. Enough.

Did you read what I said? I said pay the bills. Don't leave any question that America will pay it's debt obligations. Just don't pay congress, the military (except those deployed - but also offer to void those contracts for soldiers which you can't pay), social obligations, etc.

[ZONA]

I think you have to go back to the last time we had a surplus and go from there. What has happened since then.

* Healthcare costs are through the roof - causing medicare costs to go through the roof.
* Bush tax cuts for nearly 12 years.
* Wallstreet deregulation, causing Wallstreet greed, causing financial recession.
* War, War War
* Companies sending manufacturing jobs overseas.

Simple - we have to get these healthcare costs down. Medicare is a good program, but $50K for a visit to the ER to have an MRI is inexcusable. Stop fighting wars we can't afford. Stop deregulating Wallstreet so they can F us over only to slap them on the hand and give them a big kiss afterwards. Stop giving insane tax cuts to wealthy business and don't allow them a tax break when they ship jobs over seas. I think we all clearly saw that not taxing the wealthy companies doesn't = job creation. What happened during our recession? They were still getting their tax breaks but they didn't create any jobs, instead they cut jobs. The rich always make sure they themselves are paid first, paid handsomely and then what's left over trickles down. American benefits and wages for normal working folks are some of the worst in any civilized country. The wealth gap in this country is growing and growing and growing.

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

Did you read what I said? I said pay the bills. Don't leave any question that America will pay it's debt obligations. Just don't pay congress, the military (except those deployed - but also offer to void those contracts for soldiers which you can't pay), social obligations, etc.

I did read it, but honestly, didn't understand what you were trying to say, so I repeated my point.