The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-05-2013, 06:13 PM   #26
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,369

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
There a reason you keep coming at me?
You were a bit of a hypocritical dick in post 7. I just think we as Broncos fans and you as a Manning fan shouldn't let our biases cloud our judgement.
ant1999e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 06:19 PM   #27
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,758

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Should Peterson get dinged because he goes out on passing downs? I kind of think he should, I mean you would think the NFL MVP would give you your best chance to continue the drive.

Honestly I think they should split both the awards.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 06:21 PM   #28
Aftermath
Creep
 
Aftermath's Avatar
 
Broncos | Flyers | Tigers

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Dirty Glove
Posts: 834

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Eric Decker
Default

Peterson deserves it, I've said it all along. No other rb like him. There's other qbs like Manning.
Aftermath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 06:24 PM   #29
Aftermath
Creep
 
Aftermath's Avatar
 
Broncos | Flyers | Tigers

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Dirty Glove
Posts: 834

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Eric Decker
Default

It's not most valuable QB. Minnesota might win one game without Peterson. Our defense is top 5, special teams top 5. Sure Manning helps make our defense a bit better. Minnesota has NOTHING without Peterson.
Aftermath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:06 PM   #30
Bmore Manning
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1999e View Post
You were a bit of a hypocritical dick in post 7. I just think we as Broncos fans and you as a Manning fan shouldn't let our biases cloud our judgement.
I can make a well articulated argument as to why Manning deserves it and not Peterson.. But after that article I didn't think it was necessary. But if it makes me less of a dick, I would be more than happy to share.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:33 PM   #31
Bmore Manning
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

1. Peyton couldn't even throw a ball a little less than a year ago. He was playing catch with his wife because he was so embarrassed of where he was physically.

2. The man is 36 years old, most of the doctors doubted the nerves in his arm would regenerate. As you get older some of you are aware your recovery time is double what it used to be with recovery from a workout, let alone an injury.

3. He is playing on a new team, in a new system, with new coaches, new players, all new variables, doctors, surroundings, and things that he needed to adjust to.

4. He led this new team to a 13-3 record, the number one seed, a first round playoff bye, and turned them into the hottest team, which is the favorite to win the SB!

5. He didn't just get this team to the playoffs, the day he signed he made them a SB favorite.

6. He also makes everyone around him better, holding coaches and players accountable for bettering themselves. Players study and work harder and want to be better and have to live to his standard. Coaches have to work harder to keep up with the greatest football mind to ever get behind center.

7. He makes the defense better by allowing them to pin their ears back and utilize the strengths of what they do, pass rush!

8. Practicing against him makes the defense enhance the level of practice and perpetration getting the best out of players and in turn coaching defensive players on how to handle each situation.

9. He revives the careers of retired players, benched players, and under performing players.

10. He is responsible for 24 players on the Broncos having their best statistical seasons of their careers.

11. He makes everyone believe in themselves and in him, that they can go out and win any game, no matter the score.

We aren't even at stats yet, and I haven't even talked about Peterson, would you like me to continue?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:42 PM   #32
Armchair Bronco
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

GB leads Minnesota @ the half in the Wild Card game, 17 to 3.

Enough said. Manning needs to get the MVP.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:44 PM   #33
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,369

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

Sounds like a perfect candidate for comeback POY. BTW, we had a pretty good defense and running game before manning.
Does he deserve it? Yes. But I'm not such a homer to totally disregard AP and attack anyone who disagrees with me.
ant1999e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:48 PM   #34
Agamemnon
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aftermath View Post
It's not most valuable QB. Minnesota might win one game without Peterson. Our defense is top 5, special teams top 5. Sure Manning helps make our defense a bit better. Minnesota has NOTHING without Peterson.
That's just stupid. You don't win 10 games simply because you have a 2,000 yard rusher.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:51 PM   #35
lonestar
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Texas
Posts: 6,192

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Decker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1999e View Post
Sounds like a perfect candidate for comeback POY. BTW, we had a pretty good defense and running game before manning.
Does he deserve it? Yes. But I'm not such a homer to totally disregard AP and attack anyone who disagrees with me.
IIRC he went down in the last game of the year late in in the game.

Not like he missed the season or anything.

I'm not taking anything away from his accomplishments but not come back POY.
lonestar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:59 PM   #36
Bmore Manning
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1999e View Post
Sounds like a perfect candidate for comeback POY. BTW, we had a pretty good defense and running game before manning.
Does he deserve it? Yes. But I'm not such a homer to totally disregard AP and attack anyone who disagrees with me.
I don't disregard AP, every Patriot fan believes its Peterson and its not close, but if it was Brady involved, they would argue non stop for him. Rodney Harrison said as much on SNF that Peterson deserves it hands down. So I was throwing out any junk a patriot fan would say, just like I'm sure you did because I'm a Manning fan.

When I talked about Peterson, I was saying facts..
1. Fact Harvin was the MVP of Minny before he got hurt.
2. Ponder has played better than the credit he's given.
3. The defense has played better than credit they are given.
4. AP has 12 TDs, I'm pretty sure that's nowhere near enough to win games.
5. AP is most successful running outside, particularly to the left, where the play of new LT Matt Kalil should be recognized.
6. AP doesn't make everyone around him better.
7. Peterson sure isn't carrying them in this game, an MVP should be able to make a real difference.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 08:04 PM   #37
Nwp-Apap
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

At this point it looks like Christian Ponder is more valuable to the Vikings than Peterson.

Manning should win this in a landslide, and rightfully so. A QB should always win MVP, as QB is the most valuable position on a football team, and the best QB in any given year is the most valuable player there is.

I don't see how anyone could honestly make an argument for Peterson winning the award. They got too wrapped up in him coming close to ED's record.

Put Manning on the Vikings and Peterson on the Broncos and we're worse and the Vikings are better.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 08:22 PM   #38
spdirty
Ring of Famer
 
spdirty's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bailey
Posts: 14,792

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Quentin Jammer
Default

I really don't care about the individual awards. Sure I'd like to see Manning get the MVP, but I'd like to see him get Super Bowl MVP even more.
spdirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:14 PM   #39
troya900
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aftermath View Post
It's not most valuable QB. Minnesota might win one game without Peterson. Our defense is top 5, special teams top 5. Sure Manning helps make our defense a bit better. Minnesota has NOTHING without Peterson.
I never really understood this logic as support for Peterson. So assuming Peterson didn't play they have a few wins and he turns them into a mediocre team sqeaking into the playoffs that got blown out in the first game.

Now look at Manning and he took a mediocre 8-8 team that barely squeaked into the playoffs to a team that is the number one seed and superbowl favorites.

Now reading those two statements which do you think sounds more impressive? Raising your team to mediocre status or raising your team to elite status and superbowl favorites? I don't know about you, but the choice to me is simple.
troya900 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 01:19 AM   #40
Bronco X
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nwp-Apap View Post
At this point it looks like Christian Ponder is more valuable to the Vikings than Peterson.
That's an overstatement, but I do agree it's apparent that whatever unremarkable assets Ponder brought weren't given enough credit for the Vikings success this season. Ponder has been particularly maligned in arguments in favor of Peterson as MVP (i.e. Peterson has carried a team into the playoffs with an incompetent deadbeat as a QB). Not that Ponder is a QB of the future obviously but the Vikings with Webb and Peterson probably would have won about as many games as they would have with Ponder and an average running back.

Quote:
Put Manning on the Vikings and Peterson on the Broncos and we're worse and the Vikings are better.
Agreed.
Bronco X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 03:37 AM   #41
Bacchus
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
It's really hard to argue against Manning getting his 5th MVP. Adrian Peterson has been amazing in many ways this season but he only scored 12 TDs (less than Eric Decker).
In 1998 TD ran for 2,008 yards, played on a 14-2 team and scord 23 TDs and he did not win MVP.

The only way Manning does not win it is if the voters think he has won it enough.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 03:43 AM   #42
broncofever
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Just out of curiosity, would this discussion be different if Peyton did this with the Colts rather than Denver? Personally I think it's more impressive with the broncos given the change of team, system, personnel, stadium and altitude even, but is there a bias that would favor Manning more had he stayed with the Colts or is the MVP more likely because he's in Denver?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:00 AM   #43
CEH
Ring of Famer
 
CEH's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
In 1998 TD ran for 2,008 yards, played on a 14-2 team and scord 23 TDs and he did not win MVP.

The only way Manning does not win it is if the voters think he has won it enough.
TD did win the MVP in 1998
CEH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 10:59 AM   #44
Drek
Ring of Famer
 
Drek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,334
Default

Holy **** that article in insulting to the entire rest of the Denver Broncos.

So Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker putting up Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne numbers is entirely a product of Manning? They're both damn good players in their own right in only their third season in the league. Manning's success this year isn't a product of Manning alone, these two guys have done a lot to help him out and this attitude that Manning is 100% responsible for their success instead of seeing it for the symbiotic relationship it is degrades their contributions.

The 8-8 to 13-3 jump also completely ignores the massive improvement in our defense from a middling squad with a few playmakers to an elite group with stars paired with damn good starters almost across the board. Miller took his DROY 2011 season and turned it up a few notches for 2012. Doom looked even better in 2012 than he did in 2011. Woodyard had a massive step forward. Chris Harris broke through like a beast. Raheem Moore has grown by leaps and bounds. Wolfe and Ayers are an impressive strong side DE tandem. And lets not forget Champ holding father time at bay with apparent ease.

These guys are a big part of why this team improved, not just Manning.

Lets also not overlook the improved TE play from FA signings, the step forward we've seen both Zane Beadles and Orlando Franklin take, and the gradual return to form of Ryan Clady.

Willis McGahee was playing some of the best football of his career before getting hurt and Knowshon Moreno is playing hands down the best football of his career now in place of him.

This team's success is the product of all of the above.

Meanwhile the single biggest difference the Vikings have seen between their 2011 3-13 season and their 10-6 2012 season was Peterson. Not just getting back from his ACL tear but then having one of the single most dominant RB seasons ever with little to no passing game to back him up.

MVP is a single season award for the most valuable player over a 16 game span. Without Manning the Broncos were likely a playoff team still. Without Peterson the Vikings are trying to decide who they pick in the top 5 of next year's draft. This shouldn't even be hard and if Manning wins it they should just formally announce that it's a QBs only award.

Want a good stat to highlight it? In Terrell Davis' 1998 MVP season he had the following stat line with an all world team around him:
2008 rushing yards
5.1 yards per carry
125.5 yards per game
15 20+ yard runs
6 40+ yard runs

Adrian Peterson on a weak Vikings team with no other superstar on offense to help him out:
2097 rushing yards
6.0 yards per carry
131.1 yards per game
27 20+ yard runs
8 40+ yard runs

Now I thin TD was the clear cut MVP in 1998, but thinking that I can't see how I could rationally argue that thinking Peterson trumping TD's '98 season pretty much across the board. Manning's numbers are better than any QB achieved in '98, sure, but the same could be said of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. If the MVP is anything other than a QB only award it's got to go to Peterson after putting up the greatest running back's season we've seen to date.
Drek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 11:13 AM   #45
ScottXray
Opinionated A******
 
ScottXray's Avatar
 
We will NOT lose!

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PDX (Portland OR)
Posts: 6,098

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Off. CENTER
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aftermath View Post
It's not most valuable QB. Minnesota might win one game without Peterson. Our defense is top 5, special teams top 5. Sure Manning helps make our defense a bit better. Minnesota has NOTHING without Peterson.
Percy Harvin carried that team the first 5-6 games and Peterson was pedestrianfor them. When Harvin went down THEN Peterson started his run.

while Peterson is the MVP of the vikings the MVP award is for the MVP for the whole season, over the whole season, and he has only been in that class for the last 10 games of the regular season. Ponder also was a big part of that offense for the last 4 games and without him Peterson could not be effective
all by himself.

Manning , Brady and Rogers have all been more valuable to their teams then
Peterson and over a larger percentage of the season.

Maybe Peterson can get Offensive player....not MVP and Not comeback ( definitely Manning for that).
ScottXray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 11:19 AM   #46
OrangeSe7en
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco X View Post
That's an overstatement, but I do agree it's apparent that whatever unremarkable assets Ponder brought weren't given enough credit for the Vikings success this season. Ponder has been particularly maligned in arguments in favor of Peterson as MVP (i.e. Peterson has carried a team into the playoffs with an incompetent deadbeat as a QB). Not that Ponder is a QB of the future obviously but the Vikings with Webb and Peterson probably would have won about as many games as they would have with Ponder and an average running back.



Agreed.
Not really. It says as much about the need to give back ups reps in practice. I remember Elway saying that the back up used to get 30-40% of the reps at practice when Shanahan was there. This is why. For whatever reason, however, it's prevalent for teams to give their back ups no reps. Webb has looked good in other games when he knew he was going to start.

Ponder isn't very good. This idea that he's been elevated because of yesterdays game is laughable.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 11:22 AM   #47
OrangeSe7en
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
In 1998 TD ran for 2,008 yards, played on a 14-2 team and scord 23 TDs and he did not win MVP.

The only way Manning does not win it is if the voters think he has won it enough.
Just stop.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 11:33 AM   #48
rmsanger
Elway > PFM
 
rmsanger's Avatar
 
Another one bites the dust!

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,238

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Still in AP's corner for MVP dude is just a beast. He made stuff happen himself!

Peyton is a great story and I love that he's on this team but the first quarter of the season he didn't exactly light it up. Sorry but AP is head n shoulders the single best offensive player in the league and is much better than the 2nd RB.

PFM is a top 3 QB but isn't much better than Brady or Rodgers.
rmsanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 11:36 AM   #49
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 22,019

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmsanger View Post
Still in AP's corner for MVP dude is just a beast. He made stuff happen himself!

Peyton is a great story and I love that he's on this team but the first quarter of the season he didn't exactly light it up. Sorry but AP is head n shoulders the single best offensive player in the league and is much better than the 2nd RB.

PFM is a top 3 QB but isn't much better than Brady or Rodgers.
You realize the broncos went 13-3, right?
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 11:42 AM   #50
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,369

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
Holy **** that article in insulting to the entire rest of the Denver Broncos.

So Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker putting up Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne numbers is entirely a product of Manning? They're both damn good players in their own right in only their third season in the league. Manning's success this year isn't a product of Manning alone, these two guys have done a lot to help him out and this attitude that Manning is 100% responsible for their success instead of seeing it for the symbiotic relationship it is degrades their contributions.

The 8-8 to 13-3 jump also completely ignores the massive improvement in our defense from a middling squad with a few playmakers to an elite group with stars paired with damn good starters almost across the board. Miller took his DROY 2011 season and turned it up a few notches for 2012. Doom looked even better in 2012 than he did in 2011. Woodyard had a massive step forward. Chris Harris broke through like a beast. Raheem Moore has grown by leaps and bounds. Wolfe and Ayers are an impressive strong side DE tandem. And lets not forget Champ holding father time at bay with apparent ease.

These guys are a big part of why this team improved, not just Manning.

Lets also not overlook the improved TE play from FA signings, the step forward we've seen both Zane Beadles and Orlando Franklin take, and the gradual return to form of Ryan Clady.

Willis McGahee was playing some of the best football of his career before getting hurt and Knowshon Moreno is playing hands down the best football of his career now in place of him.

This team's success is the product of all of the above.

Meanwhile the single biggest difference the Vikings have seen between their 2011 3-13 season and their 10-6 2012 season was Peterson. Not just getting back from his ACL tear but then having one of the single most dominant RB seasons ever with little to no passing game to back him up.

MVP is a single season award for the most valuable player over a 16 game span. Without Manning the Broncos were likely a playoff team still. Without Peterson the Vikings are trying to decide who they pick in the top 5 of next year's draft. This shouldn't even be hard and if Manning wins it they should just formally announce that it's a QBs only award.

Want a good stat to highlight it? In Terrell Davis' 1998 MVP season he had the following stat line with an all world team around him:
2008 rushing yards
5.1 yards per carry
125.5 yards per game
15 20+ yard runs
6 40+ yard runs

Adrian Peterson on a weak Vikings team with no other superstar on offense to help him out:
2097 rushing yards
6.0 yards per carry
131.1 yards per game
27 20+ yard runs
8 40+ yard runs

Now I thin TD was the clear cut MVP in 1998, but thinking that I can't see how I could rationally argue that thinking Peterson trumping TD's '98 season pretty much across the board. Manning's numbers are better than any QB achieved in '98, sure, but the same could be said of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. If the MVP is anything other than a QB only award it's got to go to Peterson after putting up the greatest running back's season we've seen to date.
End thread.
ant1999e is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:55 AM.


Denver Broncos