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Old 01-03-2013, 12:19 PM   #276
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Not when you are reaching because it's a weakness. I would rather use the first round pick elsewhere and take Jackson in the third/fourth.
I agree with the BPA strategy, to a point. If some player the FO is really high on drops to us, pull the trigger. Unfortunately, the need for help up the middle on the Broncos' D has reached the critical stage. We've been plugging pre-retirement vet FAs in there for years. Sooner or later, you've got to invest and put some youth in the position, and at something better than a sixth round pick. BTW, where's Mike Mohammed these days?
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:42 PM   #277
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I agree with the BPA strategy, to a point. If some player the FO is really high on drops to us, pull the trigger. Unfortunately, the need for help up the middle on the Broncos' D has reached the critical stage. We've been plugging pre-retirement vet FAs in there for years. Sooner or later, you've got to invest and put some youth in the position, and at something better than a sixth round pick. BTW, where's Mike Mohammed these days?
Where have I ever said that I want to start Mike Mohammed? I believe in upgrading talent hence this thread I started. I just don't like your prospect that's all buddy.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:49 PM   #278
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Skov? Pass. Poor character, already had a DUI, blew out his knee in 2011 and will probably top out at 4.7 in the 40 yard dash. I'd say he goes late second, early third. He is not even a thought at #32. I bet he is suspended for PED's by at least his second season in the NFL.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:51 PM   #279
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Skov? Pass. Poor character, already had a DUI, blew out his knee in 2011 and will probably top out at 4.7 in the 40 yard dash. I'd say he goes late second, early third. He is not even a thought at #32. I bet he is suspended for PED's by at least his second season in the NFL.
You still like Reddick? Anyone else catch your eye.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:58 PM   #280
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1) QB - Super weak, no QB's worthy of a top 10 selection
2) RB - Super weak, none of the RB's even have 4.4 speed, probably none will be 1st rounders
3) C - Weak, none even considered 1st rounders
4) OG - Average, Barrett Jones grades out at the top for me, a few guys worthy of late 1st round picks.
5) OT - Average, will have to see the footspeed on some of these guys, but looks like several 1st round picks as per usual
6) WR - Weak, Williams and Austin aren't really what you would call elite talents and won't go top 15...though they could turn out to be Pro Bowlers
7) DT - Average, deep class, but no elite prospects
8) DE - Don't know
9) ILB - Normal - Te'o would be picked 15-30 in a normal year, nobody is better than him in this class
10) OLB - Don't know, but doesn't look particularly strong if Ogletree and Moseley are being talked about in the 1st round
11) CB - Average, no elite prospects with 4.3 speed
12) Safety - Below Average, if Elam and Reid come out then it's an average class...if not it sucks.


Weak draft overall.

EPIC FAIL!
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:16 PM   #281
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You still like Reddick? Anyone else catch your eye.
Yep. Thought he would make more plays this year, but he still had a good campaign. Most TFL in the ACC.

Right now, I like Kiko Alonso as well. Could go higher than the late third. Brown could be tried out at ILB as well, but is probably better at OLB. Bostic from FLA in the mid-rounds.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:19 PM   #282
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EPIC FAIL!
QB and RB he is right on. I'd say WR is above-average. He is wrong in interior OL, DL, DB and LB.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:34 PM   #283
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Yep. Thought he would make more plays this year, but he still had a good campaign. Most TFL in the ACC.

Right now, I like Kiko Alonso as well. Could go higher than the late third. Brown could be tried out at ILB as well, but is probably better at OLB. Bostic from FLA in the mid-rounds.
I will be watching Alonso very closely tonight! He does have some character questions if I remember correctly..?

Reddick, Bostic would be solid selections. I agree Arthur Brown or even Kasheem Green are intriguing prospects if they could add some weight..
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:34 PM   #284
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Skov? Pass. Poor character, already had a DUI, blew out his knee in 2011 and will probably top out at 4.7 in the 40 yard dash. I'd say he goes late second, early third. He is not even a thought at #32. I bet he is suspended for PED's by at least his second season in the NFL.
Really? I thought he had rehabilitated himself, physically and character wise? He had a hell of a Rose Bowl. I don't hold a single DUI against a young guy. As long as there is not a second one. All I saw was that Cardinal defense was two different animals with him and without him. Let's see what his combine looks like.

I would rather have some of the better ILB's in this draft, like Mintner, but I just don't think they will fall to us. I don't see a way out of upgrading the position, other than FA. And even then, who will be available? Uhrlacher is done. Rey Rey? Frankly, anything beyond the fourth round in this draft will probably be practice squad fodder, at best. How long do the Broncos just keep slapping patches on the position and hope for the best?
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:42 PM   #285
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QB and RB he is right on. I'd say WR is above-average. He is wrong in interior OL, DL, DB and LB.
He is wrong about the RB's because his claim on speed makes a RB just like he bashed Martin for running a 4.5 40. Then there is Lattimore who when recovered is a franchise back.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:46 PM   #286
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Where have I ever said that I want to start Mike Mohammed? I believe in upgrading talent hence this thread I started. I just don't like your prospect that's all buddy.
All I'm saying is that the majority of the time, that's where you end up when you try to fix critical weaknesses in the later rounds. Your fourth, fifth or sixth round pick doesn't cut it, you throw a FA patch at the problem, and kick the can down the road. Like I keep saying, Skov isn't my number one choice, but he's better than anything we have at the position, he'll probably be available, and he's a high intensity, passionate player. He'd be a solid addition.

But come to think about it, rather than argue with you guys, I'm going to put my faith in Fox and JDR to work this out. They sure as hell know more than I do.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:02 PM   #287
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All I'm saying is that the majority of the time, that's where you end up when you try to fix critical weaknesses in the later rounds. Your fourth, fifth or sixth round pick doesn't cut it, you throw a FA patch at the problem, and kick the can down the road. Like I keep saying, Skov isn't my number one choice, but he's better than anything we have at the position, he'll probably be available, and he's a high intensity, passionate player. He'd be a solid addition.

But come to think about it, rather than argue with you guys, I'm going to put my faith in Fox and JDR to work this out. They sure as hell know more than I do.
The norm may be to draft a first round starter even at a position like MLB, but there have been plenty of day two LB selections who are good players. I'm not suggesting a sixth round pick, but if we are going to miss out on Te'o and Minter, then we would be reaching to take another prospect in the first round.

Guys like Reddick, Bostic, Alonso, Jackson, Johnson, Klein, Mauti, Brown, Green, Blair, Taylor.. are all day two prospects who I'm sure our front office is watching tape on. That's a plathora of options that you don't have to reach on.. And the smart move is to fill MLB in free agency and still groom a long term prospect, unless they are truly convinced someone can be that three down day one starter.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:33 PM   #288
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EPIC FAIL!
1. Luke Kuechly went #9 last year as a Jr. Te'o would have been drafted after him had he went out.
2. Typically top MLB's are drafted in the 20's...only elite physical freak MLB's are drafted in the top 15 (Urlacher, Kuechly, Willis). Te'o is NOT a physical freak.
3. If Te'o runs in the 4.7's at the combine (as he is projected), he would have went 15-30 in the 2012 draft...that's why he waited until this year.
4. If Te'o actually runs in the 4.6's, I would consider spending a 10-15 pick on him.

Nothing is outlandish about any of this at all. If you think so, you are in love with the player for the wrong reasons. Kuechly was/is a far better prospect. Ray Lewis was drafted at #26. Te'o is what you would call a "sure bet", but doesn't stand out athletically. Guys like him have become more valuable since the rookie cap went into place, and thus get drafted higher than they historically would be.


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QB and RB he is right on. I'd say WR is above-average. He is wrong in interior OL, DL, DB and LB.
Still looks like an average draft to me, with a lack of elite (top 10) QB's, RB's, WR's, or CB's.

OL, and LB are deep. DT is exceptionally deep.

Calling it a "weak" draft was overzealous on my part. There are probably going to be impact players available all the way to the mid-2nd round.


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He is wrong about the RB's because his claim on speed makes a RB just like he bashed Martin for running a 4.5 40. Then there is Lattimore who when recovered is a franchise back.
Usually, if an RB doesn't run in the 4.4's, they aren't drafted in the 1st round. I never knocked Doug Martin, except to say that I didn't want the Broncos to pick him at #25. He wouldn't have been drafted in the 1st round, if Tampa Bay hadn't jumped up to #32. I would still go with Wolfe because effective UT's are so hard to find. I liked Martin, but we needed a DT bad.

Lattimore is good. He was good two years ago. He's not going to be a 1st rounder.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:47 PM   #289
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Yeah, it was overzealous.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:42 PM   #290
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I still think we have a good chance to see two 1st Round backs in Giovani Bernard and Eddie Lacy. Granted, it would be late 1st round, but both of those are excellent RBs. I'm thinking Cincy and GB.

But overall, I like this draft. I see a ton of quality starting talent and not much elite talent. This is the type of draft where skilled scouts and player evaluations make all the difference. I'm very happy Denver is picking late in this draft. I think it's as likely you unearth a gem with the last pick in a round as you would with the first. I'm excited because I think we'll see some all-time horrific drafts and some of the all-time best when we look back on this draft down the road. I anticipate lots of hidden gems, and I hope we find some.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:49 PM   #291
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Doug Martin wouldn't have been a first round pick if he wasn't picked in the first round.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:12 PM   #292
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I wish I could have gotten into this discussion earlier, but I would just like to throw one thing out there.
I love Chris Kuper, as I am sure most of us do. But he has had lingering injury issues, and having to play Manny Ramirez at RG is starting to get really old.
I believe this is a pretty deep OL draft class, meaning that at #32 overall (god willing) we will be able to pick a pretty decent RT up.
The reason I say RT is because I know that Orlando Franklin played Guard at Miami, say we put him there and have a new RT or even Clark come in at that spot.
I'm just spit balling here, but I would like to hear what your guys thoughts are. As well as hear what kind of trade value we could get for Kuper. I know Dallas, Philly, Arizona, and probably many other teams out there that could use help at RG.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:29 PM   #293
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I wish I could have gotten into this discussion earlier, but I would just like to throw one thing out there.
I love Chris Kuper, as I am sure most of us do. But he has had lingering injury issues, and having to play Manny Ramirez at RG is starting to get really old.
I believe this is a pretty deep OL draft class, meaning that at #32 overall (god willing) we will be able to pick a pretty decent RT up.
The reason I say RT is because I know that Orlando Franklin played Guard at Miami, say we put him there and have a new RT or even Clark come in at that spot.
I'm just spit balling here, but I would like to hear what your guys thoughts are. As well as hear what kind of trade value we could get for Kuper. I know Dallas, Philly, Arizona, and probably many other teams out there that could use help at RG.
Franklin is one of the best RT's in the game. Zero reason to move him period. I would rather draft a OG in the third round if that was the case.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:34 PM   #294
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I wish I could have gotten into this discussion earlier, but I would just like to throw one thing out there.
I love Chris Kuper, as I am sure most of us do. But he has had lingering injury issues, and having to play Manny Ramirez at RG is starting to get really old.
I believe this is a pretty deep OL draft class, meaning that at #32 overall (god willing) we will be able to pick a pretty decent RT up.
The reason I say RT is because I know that Orlando Franklin played Guard at Miami, say we put him there and have a new RT or even Clark come in at that spot.
I'm just spit balling here, but I would like to hear what your guys thoughts are. As well as hear what kind of trade value we could get for Kuper. I know Dallas, Philly, Arizona, and probably many other teams out there that could use help at RG.
Never too late to join in the fun, welcome aboard. I mentioned trading Kuper in here, but it depends what we get in return and that we have a quality replacement to play RG.

I don't want to move Franklin inside he has been one of the best RTs in football. I agree his injury issues are a bit concerning, I mentioned trading him to Carolina for Jon Beason who is expendable with the play and pick of Luke Kuechly. But Beason would also need to restructure that contract! I'd even throw in DJ Williams, maybe they part ways with Deangello who would also need to rework his deal!

Now all of that happening is doubtful.. But I would trade Kuper and DJ for a stud MLB, but we shouldn't move Franklin to guard, we should draft a RG!
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:40 PM   #295
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I still think we have a good chance to see two 1st Round backs in Giovani Bernard and Eddie Lacy. Granted, it would be late 1st round, but both of those are excellent RBs. I'm thinking Cincy and GB.
Could be right about that. Both teams need a good RB. Though GB needs OL help badly. They led the lead in sacks allowed. Cincy may want to replace Maualuga with Minter, if not RB might be their most glaring need.

The Colts might be a destination for a 1st round RB...
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:50 PM   #296
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He is wrong about the RB's because his claim on speed makes a RB just like he bashed Martin for running a 4.5 40. Then there is Lattimore who when recovered is a franchise back.
I doubt it happens, but if Lattimore is still sitting there in the 4th or later I pray we take a chance on the guy
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:14 PM   #297
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Never too late to join in the fun, welcome aboard. I mentioned trading Kuper in here, but it depends what we get in return and that we have a quality replacement to play RG.

I don't want to move Franklin inside he has been one of the best RTs in football. I agree his injury issues are a bit concerning, I mentioned trading him to Carolina for Jon Beason who is expendable with the play and pick of Luke Kuechly. But Beason would also need to restructure that contract! I'd even throw in DJ Williams, maybe they part ways with Deangello who would also need to rework his deal!

Now all of that happening is doubtful.. But I would trade Kuper and DJ for a stud MLB, but we shouldn't move Franklin to guard, we should draft a RG!
Now I like what I am hearing with that Carolina situation. Jon Beason would look great in the middle of our defense I think, and you just made me get all giddy by mentioning Jonathan Stewart! haha! I know you and DB4L are saying that Franklin is one of the best RT's in the game, I don't know if I would go that far. That was merely a suggestion. I mentioned in the other thread about maybe even putting Blake there, I have not heard much about his development though. I think we would be able to find a Guard in the draft that could fit in nicely.

And yeah the only reason I am even looking at trading Kuper is because of the cap issue as well. I wouldn't be even suggesting it, if we didn't have that issue.
And thanks for the greeting, I am glad to finally be posting on here. It's been a long time coming!
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:27 PM   #298
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I doubt it happens, but if Lattimore is still sitting there in the 4th or later I pray we take a chance on the guy
I think we are a team that has the ability to draft him and wait. It would be the best thing for Manning in his last year or two and damn sure what a guy like Os would need after Manning retires.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:35 PM   #299
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Now I like what I am hearing with that Carolina situation. Jon Beason would look great in the middle of our defense I think, and you just made me get all giddy by mentioning Jonathan Stewart! haha! I know you and DB4L are saying that Franklin is one of the best RT's in the game, I don't know if I would go that far. That was merely a suggestion. I mentioned in the other thread about maybe even putting Blake there, I have not heard much about his development though. I think we would be able to find a Guard in the draft that could fit in nicely.

And yeah the only reason I am even looking at trading Kuper is because of the cap issue as well. I wouldn't be even suggesting it, if we didn't have that issue.
And thanks for the greeting, I am glad to finally be posting on here. It's been a long time coming!
I think much of a trade would be predicated on Beason reworking his deal, I believe that it would be possible to get him, though he has been having some injury issues of his own, he would need to rework that deal. Carolina is in lousy cap conditions going into next season. Getting Beason is fiesable maybe Deangello too who knows. They would not part ways with Stewart though..

Franklin graded out as one of the best RTs in the league, I believe he only surrendered one sack. Blake isn't proven, we would need to draft a replacement.. There are some quality Guards in the draft.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:53 PM   #300
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Does anyone know if the Eagles get our sixth or seventh rounder for the Bunkley trade a few years ago? It was a conditional selection, believed to be very late. Just wondering if the team or another source has confirmed what it is. Would help with mocks in the future. Thanks.
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