Offseason Plan 1.0

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by fontaine

Yes, Denver doesn't need 4/5 starters out of this offseason. What it really needs is to resign guys like Leonhard, Clady, Koppen, Clark, Bruton and maybe bring into one or two FAs that are second level players but still improvements over guys like Caldwell/Willis/Unrein/Malik Jackson etc.

My choices would Austin Collie, Shaughnessy or Gilberry and Dorsey.

That would allow us to go full bore with BPA in the draft (with hopefully getting a DT in the first three rounds).

I'm hesitant to go after safety because I really think resigning Leonhard provides the best value here considering what a great leader he is and mentally knows the game inside out, plus Carter will be back next year and should be given a chance to take his starting position back from Adams.

I know what you're saying with Henderson/Grant, but my choice would be Ellerbie from the Ravens but it's no big deal.

I'm glad you are on board with the Austin Collie request! I think he would be a cheap low risk high reward player! I think we have plenty of strong side DE depth, but agree we should upgrade Bannan with a veteran FA. I like Knoghton, Dorsey, and Branch as three candidates. And I would draft Brandon Williams in the draft!

As far as MLB, with the news of Ray Lewis retiring, Ellerbe isn't going anywhere. I don't like the scheme fit either.. But I would take Larry Grant as my stop gap solution and the more and more I think about it the more I am intrigued by Henderson playing as a three down MLB.

[eddie mac]

Collie has had 3-4 concussions, maybe more in the last 2-3 seasons. He's more likely to retire this offseason than bloody Stokley.

[Rohirrim]

Right now, I'm hoping the Broncos take Skov, the ILB from Stanford, with their first pick, best safety available in the second, and then go after DTs and Olinemen in free agency.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by eddie mac

Collie has had 3-4 concussions, maybe more in the last 2-3 seasons. He's more likely to retire this offseason than bloody Stokley.

Which means signing him to an affordable deal with no guarantees will make letting him go in the event of another injury, easy and a no brainer. Low risk high reward!

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Right now, I'm hoping the Broncos take Skov, the ILB from Stanford, with their first pick, best safety available in the second, and then go after DTs and Olinemen in free agency.

I watched him closely verse Wisconsin a running team and I was not impressed.. What safety prospect are you advocating? And who in free agency?

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by eddie mac

Collie has had 3-4 concussions, maybe more in the last 2-3 seasons. He's more likely to retire this offseason than bloody Stokley.

I agree 100 percent.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

I watched him closely verse Wisconsin a running team and I was not impressed.. What safety prospect are you advocating? And who in free agency?

He led the defense that shut down the Badgers in the second half of that game with 8 tackles. What did you want him to do? **** golden eggs?

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

He led the defense that shut down the Badgers in the second half of that game with 8 tackles. What did you want him to do? **** golden eggs?

I want to draft him as well. I don't think he is a first rounder though. 2nd rounder or 3rd. The fact that we run a D pretty much like a 3-4 anyways makes me think we can draft a 3-4 MLB and be OK.

[fontaine]

Originally Posted by eddie mac

Collie has had 3-4 concussions, maybe more in the last 2-3 seasons. He's more likely to retire this offseason than bloody Stokley.

Collie has pretty much said he's not going to retire. I'm not saying we absolutely bring him in and count on him but we know he's a great fit and a highly productive receiver in Mannings offense that's going to come for pretty much veteran minimum.

He'll just be insurance policy in case one of out top three WRs miss time unless you think Willis or Caldwell would do better.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

He led the defense that shut down the Badgers in the second half of that game with 8 tackles. What did you want him to do? **** golden eggs?

I wanted him to show that he would be a fit in our defense, and I did not see that. He is average in space and below average dropping into coverage. He's also a second or third round pick.. not a round one talent. He's best playing downhill and blitzing the QB, he's a much better fit in a 3-4 defense. I guess you and I look for totally different things.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by fontaine

Collie has pretty much said he's not going to retire. I'm not saying we absolutely bring him in and count on him but we know he's a great fit and a highly productive receiver in Mannings offense that's going to come for pretty much veteran minimum.

He'll just be insurance policy in case one of out top three WRs miss time unless you think Willis or Caldwell would do better.

Who do we bring in for the insurance to the insurance policy then?

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by fontaine

Collie has pretty much said he's not going to retire. I'm not saying we absolutely bring him in and count on him but we know he's a great fit and a highly productive receiver in Mannings offense that's going to come for pretty much veteran minimum.

He'll just be insurance policy in case one of out top three WRs miss time unless you think Willis or Caldwell would do better.

This!

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

I wanted him to show that he would be a fit in our defense, and I did not see that. He is average in space and below average dropping into coverage. He's also a second or third round pick.. not a round one talent. He's best playing downhill and blitzing the QB, he's a much better fit in a 3-4 defense. I guess you and I look for totally different things.

I assume the Broncos will be picking at #32. That means they will be looking at second rounders.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

Who do we bring in for the insurance to the insurance policy then?

A draft pick. I like your boy Stedman Bailey or a nice explosive weapon along those lines.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

I want to draft him as well. I don't think he is a first rounder though. 2nd rounder or 3rd. The fact that we run a D pretty much like a 3-4 anyways makes me think we can draft a 3-4 MLB and be OK.

We do not play our LBs like a 3-4.. Just the DLine.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I assume the Broncos will be picking at #32. That means they will be looking at second rounders.

Well we agree where we will be drafting, just not necessarily who..and that's fine. I personally see alot better fits..and they can be taken in the middle rounds.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

I wanted him to show that he would be a fit in our defense, and I did not see that. He is average in space and below average dropping into coverage. He's also a second or third round pick.. not a round one talent. He's best playing downhill and blitzing the QB, he's a much better fit in a 3-4 defense. I guess you and I look for totally different things.

I assume the Broncos will be picking at #32. That means they will be looking at second rounders. I also assume that Te'o, Mintner and Ogletree won't be there. I'm open to getting the best Guard available at that spot. Or Matt Elam, if he's still on the board. When you draft at the bottom of the first round, you can't expect the optimum LB with perfect skills across the board. The Broncos are at a point now where they have no choice but to upgrade the position. Skov would be better than anything the Broncos have now and he plays with the kind of ferocity that makes up for a lack in optimum skills. He also has the brains to learn the playbook and get on the field quickly. With the Broncos' dominant pass rush, we don't need the best coverage LB in the league. Skov's power comes at stopping the run. And that includes running QBs. Would he make the team better at LB than it is now? Definitely.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

We do not play our LBs like a 3-4.. Just the DLine.

You don't feel like our LB's need to be better at shedding blocks and better in run support? If the DL is playing a 3-4 then our LB's are running into 3-4 linebacker problems.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

You don't feel like our LB's need to be better at shedding blocks and better in run support? If the DL is playing a 3-4 then our LB's are running into 3-4 linebacker problems.

The reason we scheme our three bigs to two gap, is to compensate for the abilities of the LBs, while allowing our best pass rushers to do what they do best. Our LBs like you mention are not good at shedding blocks, so having the DTs and DE (Wolfe) able to fill the gaps, allows Woodyard and Brooking the ability to flow to the ball. The gaps and responsibility of a 3-4 LB is different than what our LBs are doing.

Are we going to change out Woodyard as well as Brooking? Woodyard struggles in traffic. If we change out Woodyard and Brooking then we could and probably should be running a 3-4..

[Rohirrim]

JDR runs 3/4 packages all the time. In the pass rush packages, Von lines up as a DE just about every time. That's when opposing QBs usually switch to run plays. The Broncos also play other mixed packages, including 7 DBs on occasion. JDR loves to mix it up and mess with QBs. I think a guy like Skov would provide excellent run support in the lighter packages and still not hurt us too much in coverage. Maybe JDR would add another DB in obvious pass situations? I'm more concerned with size and speed, ability, focus, intensity and smarts. Skov has all of that. Would I prefer Te'o? Sure, but that's the cost of going deep in the playoffs.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

The reason we scheme our three bigs to two gap, is to compensate for the abilities of the LBs, while allowing our best pass rushers to do what they do best. Our LBs like you mention are not good at shedding blocks, so having the DTs and DE (Wolfe) able to fill the gaps, allows Woodyard and Brooking the ability to flow to the ball. The gaps and responsibility of a 3-4 LB is different than what our LBs are doing.

Are we going to change out Woodyard as well as Brooking? Woodyard struggles in traffic. If we change out Woodyard and Brooking then we could and probably should be running a 3-4..

Brooking was a ILB in the 3-4 for the last three years with Dallas man and I'm pretty sure he ran it with the Falcons as well.

I think he will retire anyways. We don't need to change all the LB's we just need to add someone that can step up and play his role in the system we run now.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

JDR runs 3/4 packages all the time. In the pass rush packages, Von lines up as a DE just about every time. That's when opposing QBs usually switch to run plays. The Broncos also play other mixed packages, including 7 DBs on occasion. JDR loves to mix it up and mess with QBs. I think a guy like Skov would provide excellent run support in the lighter packages and still not hurt us too much in coverage. Maybe JDR would add another DB in obvious pass situations? I'm more concerned with size and speed, ability, focus, intensity and smarts. Skov has all of that. Would I prefer Te'o? Sure, but that's the cost of going deep in the playoffs.

We do line up in 3-4 looks but our base LBs Woodyard and Brooking do not play with 3-4 responsibilities. I understand what to expect at the bottom of the first round, but I would rather take a different prospect in the third or fourth round.. Jackson, Reddick, Bostic.. They are physical down hill players but Reddick and Bostic can drop into space. If we are going to look for a thumper and rely on sub packages for coverage LBs which I have mentioned, then I would much rather take Andrew Jackson over Skov. Jackson lays the wood on anything and everything of the opposing team, his athleticism and upside is through the roof.

So what I'm getting at is no matter which LB direction we go in the draft, there are better value prospects later. I agree with the scheme and idea you suggested, that's why I'm so big on Andrew Jackson, but I'd rather wait for value then reach on one. I could see the FO drafting Arthur Brown or Kasheem Green from Rutgers to play MLB because of their coverage abilities. If that were the case we would be going in a more coverage based MLB direction.

I value size and physical play as well.. Funny you want Elam at SS if you value that size. I'd much rather have a prospect like Ray Armstrong or Cooper Taylor with a late late round pick. They have the size and physicality of a Cam Chancelor type SS. Elam is a smurf compared to them..

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Bmore Manning

We do line up in 3-4 looks but our base LBs Woodyard and Brooking do not play with 3-4 responsibilities. I understand what to expect at the bottom of the first round, but I would rather take a different prospect in the third or fourth round.. Jackson, Reddick, Bostic.. They are physical down hill players but Reddick and Bostic can drop into space. If we are going to look for a thumper and rely on sub packages for coverage LBs which I have mentioned, then I would much rather take Andrew Jackson over Skov. Jackson lays the wood on anything and everything of the opposing team, his athleticism and upside is through the roof.

So what I'm getting at is no matter which LB direction we go in the draft, there are better value prospects later. I agree with the scheme and idea you suggested, that's why I'm so big on Andrew Jackson, but I'd rather wait for value then reach on one. I could see the FO drafting Arthur Brown or Kasheem Green from Rutgers to play MLB because of their coverage abilities. If that were the case we would be going in a more coverage based MLB direction.

I value size and physical play as well.. Funny you want Elam at SS if you value that size. I'd much rather have a prospect like Ray Armstrong or Cooper Taylor with a late late round pick. They have the size and physicality of a Cam Chancelor type SS. Elam is a smurf compared to them..

I would take Skov over Jackson in a heartbeat based on level of competition alone. Skov comes through big in the biggest games. Look at Stanford getting thumped last year for 53 points by Oregon when Skov was out, and this year when the Skov-led D held Oregon to 14 points!

I think Elam makes up for his height in the intensity he brings. In big game after big game, he's the guy that makes the deciding play. I don't believe in the idea of finding gold in the late rounds. It's like buying a lottery ticket. If you luck out, fine. I'd rather use late picks on linemen and ST players. The weak spot on the Broncos is the middle of the D. Common sense tells you to use the highest picks you have on your weakest spots.

[Bmore Manning]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I would take Skov over Jackson in a heartbeat based on level of competition alone. Skov comes through big in the biggest games. Look at Stanford getting thumped last year for 53 points by Oregon when Skov was out, and this year when the Skov-led D held Oregon to 14 points!

I think Elam makes up for his height in the intensity he brings. In big game after big game, he's the guy that makes the deciding play. I don't believe in the idea of finding gold in the late rounds. It's like buying a lottery ticket. If you luck out, fine. I'd rather use late picks on linemen and ST players. The weak spot on the Broncos is the middle of the D. Common sense tells you to use the highest picks you have on your weakest spots.

Not when you are reaching because it's a weakness. I would rather use the first round pick elsewhere and take Jackson in the third/fourth.

[DBroncos4life]

Le'Veon Bell has declared to enter the draft. That has to help us in the draft.