Poll on Fiscal Cliff

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by Arkie

They use the debt limit to play the public as fools. The debt limit should be discussed before they hike spending. They're already acknowledging the limit will have to be raised to finance their spending. So what's the purpose of having a debt limit? It gets raised every time anyway.

Exactly why the debt limit needs to be done away with,but more importantly,because the debt limit is unconstitutional.

[Meck77]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

The debt limit will be raised so we can pay our bills.

So I'm starting to realize that these guys think paying with a credit card is paying one's bills. Visa and Mastercard love these type of "bill payers".

They probably love you so much they are raising your debt limit so you can cover your "obligations" right?

No need to cut spending!

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Anyone who thinks this is the last time Obama tries to raise taxes are crazy. Also at least repubs got the debt limit out of this deal. They can maybe fight for some cuts when Obama has to ask for it to be raised in a couple months.

The expiration of the temporary income tax break on higher tax brackets (above $400,000 for individuals, $450,000 for couples) impacted you how, exactly? Considering you don't make remotely that kind of money? In your wildest dreams?

[Play2win]

I just wonder how many congressmen and women are in the $250,000 to $400,000 bracket for their total income.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Drunk idiot kicker

I just wonder how many congressmen and women are in the $250,000 to $400,000 bracket for their total income.

~ 47 percent of Congress is composed of Millionaires.

"About 47 percent of Congress, or 249 current members are millionaires. … In 2010, the estimated median net worth of a current U.S. senator stood at an average of $2.56 million,” according to the Center’s research."

. . . but I see where you are going.

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Meck77

So I'm starting to realize that these guys think paying with a credit card is paying one's bills. Visa and Mastercard love these type of "bill payers".

They probably love you so much they are raising your debt limit so you can cover your "obligations" right?

No need to cut spending!

So if you buy something on a credit card it's best not to pay when you get the bill?

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

SS is simply going back to its normal rate. It isn't as if it's some new tax hike.

True or False, I'm paying more in taxes in 2013 than 2012? True.

[Meck77]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

So if you buy something on a credit card it's best not to pay when you get the bill?

If you pay in full yes. The problem is we are stacking up a trillion a year on our "credit card".

Let me make this more clear. Look we can argue what should be cut or who should be taxed more until 2014. Obama and Congress most certainly will.

In the meantime I'd recommend you guys protect your purchasing power of your dxys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Dollar_Index Here is the trend. The trend is your friend if you understand it.


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[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by Meck77

So I'm starting to realize that these guys think paying with a credit card is paying one's bills. Visa and Mastercard love these type of "bill payers".

They probably love you so much they are raising your debt limit so you can cover your "obligations" right?

No need to cut spending!

I am starting to realize you don't understand the concept of paying your bills. There is a difference.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by Rascal

True or False, I'm paying more in taxes in 2013 than 2012? True.

Yes,you can thank a Republican for not making the gwb tax cuts permanent.

[cutthemdown]

I agree for the most part this tax almost symbolic in that it won't make a dent in anything. I was really pleased they raised it out of the 250 grand for couples territory. That gets all the attorneys at the office cleared so now they won't fire me. It was really a pretty big victory for the upper middle class to have that threshold raised.

But if you think that medical device tax, and a bunch of the other ones meant to pay for healthcare aren't going to change things for everyone you are crazy. Another 14 billion in tax breaks for wind, we get that back in higher electrcity for everyone. So there are so many things Obama doing that will make things more expensive over the next 10-20 yrs.

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

I am starting to realize you don't understand the concept of paying your bills. There is a difference.

There is a difference between "paying" your bills and financing them. You wouldn't rack up $7000 on your $5000 credit card and tell them to just raise the limit to get paid. That's not really paying your bills. It's just covering earlier debt with new debt. Nothing is getting paid down. It's the direct opposite.

[Pony Boy]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I agree for the most part this tax almost symbolic in that it won't make a dent in anything. I was really pleased they raised it out of the 250 grand for couples territory. That gets all the attorneys at the office cleared so now they won't fire me. It was really a pretty big victory for the upper middle class to have that threshold raised.
But if you think that medical device tax, and a bunch of the other ones meant to pay for healthcare aren't going to change things for everyone you are crazy. Another 14 billion in tax breaks for wind, we get that back in higher electrcity for everyone. So there are so many things Obama doing that will make things more expensive over the next 10-20 yrs.

Yes getting the tax threshold raised from 250 TO 450 was awesome ........


If you look around at the next Bronco game you attend, you will realize that most of the season ticket holders are probably in the 300K income range for a family, definitely not considered millionaires and billionaires and they already pay taxes out the ass.

[DenverBrit]

Originally Posted by Pony Boy

Yes getting the tax threshold raised from 250 TO 450 was awesome ........


If you look around at the next Bronco game you attend, you will realize that most of the season ticket holders are probably in the 300K income range for a family, definitely not considered millionaires and billionaires and they already pay taxes out the ass.

You don't know many season ticket holders.

With an income of 300k, most would be millionaires, and all would be if that's investment income........and taxed at 15%

[Meck77]

Originally Posted by Arkie

There is a difference between "paying" your bills and financing them. You wouldn't rack up $7000 on your $5000 credit card and tell them to just raise the limit to get paid. That's not really paying your bills. It's just covering earlier debt with new debt. Nothing is getting paid down. It's the direct opposite.

Well put. Perhaps peacepipe understands now.

If not watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMRLQF8TFmQ

[TonyR]

The core thing [the fiscal deal] says about [the Republicans] is that they want to reform entitlements and cut spending, but they can’t actually propose any plans to do these things because it would be politically unpopular. This is a terrible problem for them.

- David Brooks.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...f/?ref=opinion

[TonyR]

Do keep in mind that Obama pretty much rolled the Republicans, and he has left them in disarray. Did that mean he was "desperate" to cut a deal? I don't think so. It means he knew that getting credit for avoiding the cliff was better than letting the Republicans get blamed for going over it--especially if he could portray them as simultaneously craven and incompetent. He did both.
Obama plays a long game, much longer than any of us realize. I suggest thinking about him with a little more nuance.

- a commenter responding to Paul Krugman
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...nts#permid=113

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by TonyR

- David Brooks.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...f/?ref=opinion

Kicking the can down the road sure was popular in the post-WWII era when the burden was light and everybody could reap the benefits while avoiding the costs. Now politicians are having to deal with the politically unpopular decisions kicked to them from earlier politicians. The politically popular thing to do is try and kick it a little further, but the road is coming to an end.

[Bronco Yoda]

Why do we get stuck on finding ways to deny americans health coverage (our parents, family, friends, & neighbors) instead of finding better ways to cover them.

I recently was reviewing an older relatives prescriptions. It was shocking what her medications cost and was billed to Medicare. Just one asthma med was nearly $500 alone per month. That was just one of many prescriptions.

But let's not stop the pharmaceutical companies from robbing us in this country blind.... oh no. Let's just deny medical coverage eligibility instead.

btw, she use to use over the counter Primetine Mist. instead. $20.00 and would last three months. But because of the ban on cfc's (not kidding here) they took it off the shelves lthis year after being used for nearly 50 years. Now instead of an $8.00 a month over the counter solution medicare will now be billed nearly $500.00 a month.

Does **** like this not piss anyone else off?


Amazing how much of this mess we could fix if we would just use common sense.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Bronco Yoda

Why do we get stuck on finding ways to deny americans health coverage (our parents, family, friends, & neighbors) instead of finding better ways to cover them.

I recently was reviewing an older relatives prescriptions. It was shocking what her medications cost and was billed to Medicare. Just one asthma med was nearly $500 alone per month. That was just one of many prescriptions.

But let's not stop the pharmaceutical companies from robbing us in this country blind.... oh no. Let's just deny medical coverage eligibility instead.

btw, she use to use over the counter Primetine Mist. instead. $20.00 and would last three months. But because of the ban on cfc's (not kidding here) they took it off the shelves lthis year after being used for nearly 50 years. Now instead of an $8.00 a month over the counter solution medicare will now be billed nearly $500.00 a month.

Does **** like this not piss anyone else off?


Amazing how much of this mess we could fix if we would just use common sense.

The legislature of the U.S. is designed to respond to the needs and directives of special interests, not the American people. Common sense has nothing to do with it. It's your basic quid pro quo system.

[TonyR]

It is easy to understand why even the most generous person might be averse to paying taxes: Our legislative process has been hostage to short-term political interests and other perverse incentives for as long as anyone can remember. Consequently, our government wastes an extraordinary amount of money. It also seems uncontroversial to say that whatever can be best accomplished in the private sector should be. Our tax code must also be reformed—and it might even be true that the income tax should be lowered on everyone, provided we find a better source of revenue to pay our bills.

But I can’t imagine that anyone seriously believes that the current level of wealth inequality in the United States is good and worth maintaining, or that our government’s first priority should be to spare a privileged person like myself the slightest hardship as this once great nation falls into ruin.

- Sam Harris
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_t...n-for-the-rich

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by TonyR

- Sam Harris
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_t...n-for-the-rich

Excellent article. Thanks. I've been reading many things in this vein lately. It's a shame, really, because I no longer believe anything will happen to change our accelerating spiral down into the toilet of history. Like Yeats said, "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." Greed has taken over. It's like watching a bunch of junkies. They either hit bottom and wake the **** up, or die. Unfortunately, they're determined to drag everybody else down with them.

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by TonyR

The expiration of the temporary income tax break on higher tax brackets (above $400,000 for individuals, $450,000 for couples) impacted you how, exactly? Considering you don't make remotely that kind of money? In your wildest dreams?

Wrong. I'm downsizing my business and laying off employees(who all of them saw their paycheck shrink this week). So do you think it's affected them too? What about all those employees who will see less hours or a pink slip? None of them make 450,000 yet they will be directly affected

[Drunken.Broncoholic]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Excellent article. Thanks. I've been reading many things in this vein lately. It's a shame, really, because I no longer believe anything will happen to change our accelerating spiral down into the toilet of history. Like Yeats said, "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." Greed has taken over. It's like watching a bunch of junkies. They either hit bottom and wake the **** up, or die. Unfortunately, they're determined to drag everybody else down with them.

Where you see greed taking over I see laziness and dependence taking over.

This country is pitiful. Im so glad I'm not a kid having to grow up in this shyt hole of a country. Gone are the days of true liberty and pursuit of happiness.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic

Wrong. I'm downsizing my business and laying off employees. So do you think it's affected them too? What about all those employees who will see less hours or a pink slip? None of them make 450,000 yet they will be directly affected

I have a hard time believing that such a small tax increase on income above $400,000 could so radically impact a business. Maybe you don't understand what these changes really mean? Let's do an example (oversimplified):

Let's say your taxable income was $500,000 last year (2012). Your tax would be $151,762 for an effective rate of 30.35%.

Let's say your taxable income will be $500,000 this year (2013). Your tax would be $155,763 for an effective rate of 31.15%.

So your tax increased $4,001, and your effective rate 0.80%.

How many "pink slips" is $4,001 causing at your business?