McCoy

Can we send mccoy to the chargers? Maybe give them some money, or pay his salary? It would be like when belly sent mcd here.

[2KBack]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

It's not confusing. It's stupid.

And yes, I tend to think it doesn't matter that much who the OC is. Not until Manning retires anyway. Not to say Whisenhunt wouldn't have a positive impact overall, I just don't think it would be that significant, especially if he's forced to adapt to the system we are running rather than running his own system. And if he is hired and installs his system I feel like it has the potential to disrupt the growing chemistry between Manning and his receivers.

To me Gase is the perfect choice while Whisenhunt seems like a big name hire that is ultimately unneeded.

That same argument could have been used against the Del Rio hiring.

[Lestat]

Originally Posted by Butterscotch Stallion

Can we send mccoy to the chargers? Maybe give them some money, or pay his salary? It would be like when belly sent mcd here.

heck, in that case then he did the same with Cleveland,NY Jets,Denver & KC.
every assistant, front office guy that has come from NE seems to not know what the **** he's doing once he leaves Belichick.

Originally Posted by 2KBack

That same argument could have been used against the Del Rio hiring.

How so?

[Lestat]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

How so?

because Del Rio came in and installed his system and that could have disrupted the growing chemistry that defense had because of the significance of the change.

[extralife]

Originally Posted by Lestat

because Del Rio came in and installed his system and that could have disrupted the growing chemistry that defense had because of the significance of the change.

did our defense have peyton manning? were we 13-3 last year?

[2KBack]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

How so?

Well, the only real difference is that there isn't a Peyton Manning on the Defense. That aside, it could have been argued at the time that We were better served with an internal hire for DC to continue the work that Dennis Allen started...especially with Von Miller. If I'm not mistaken, there was talk about promoting Richard Smith (LB coach) for that very reason. That argument is made for Gase now, on the offenseive side.

Wisenhunt could be the offensive JDR (not that I am endorsing him). I am quite confident that Peyton is happy to add more knowledge. While I am sure that any good OC would be thrilled to work with Manning. Any coach that gets AZ to a Superbowl has to be pretty damn good.

Originally Posted by Lestat

because Del Rio came in and installed his system and that could have disrupted the growing chemistry that defense had because of the significance of the change.

So you think last year's defense is comparable to this year's offense? Seriously?

Originally Posted by 2KBack

Well, the only real difference is that there isn't a Peyton Manning on the Defense. That aside, it could have been argued at the time that We were better served with an internal hire for DC to continue the work that Dennis Allen started...especially with Von Miller. If I'm not mistaken, there was talk about promoting Richard Smith (LB coach) for that very reason. That argument is made for Gase now, on the offenseive side.

Wisenhunt could be the offensive JDR (not that I am endorsing him). I am quite confident that Peyton is happy to add more knowledge. While I am sure that any good OC would be thrilled to work with Manning. Any coach that gets AZ to a Superbowl has to be pretty damn good.

The bolded part of your post is all that matters.

[2KBack]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The bolded part of your post is all that matters.

Is it? I don't think it is. We can even pretend to know how much of the offense is Manning and how much is McCoy. IF you have the opportunity to add another good football mind, and you need to replace a coach, you add that mind. If the offense is all Manning, then no harm done, if McCoy does have a heavy hand in the success then he is being respectably replaced. Lets not forget that we don't really know how many seasons we are going to have Manning, and it would be good to have a good/great OC for Brock (of course the Whizzer hasn't been exactly satisfactory in developing QB's in AZ).

[Lestat]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So you think last year's defense is comparable to this year's offense? Seriously?

no i don't, but you can make arguments for that point if you compare and contrast the potential for disruption based upon a outside hire vs promoting from within.

Originally Posted by Butterscotch Stallion

Can we send mccoy to the chargers? Maybe give them some money, or pay his salary? It would be like when belly sent mcd here.

How do you know what kind of HC he will be?

Originally Posted by 2KBack

Is it? I don't think it is. We can even pretend to know how much of the offense is Manning and how much is McCoy. IF you have the opportunity to add another good football mind, and you need to replace a coach, you add that mind. If the offense is all Manning, then no harm done, if McCoy does have a heavy hand in the success then he is being respectably replaced. Lets not forget that we don't really know how many seasons we are going to have Manning, and it would be good to have a good/great OC for Brock (of course the Whizzer hasn't been exactly satisfactory in developing QB's in AZ).

None of that has anything to do with the statement that the same argument I used against hiring Whisenhunt could've been used against hiring Del Rio. That statement was laughable as our defense was soundly mediocre last year and needed improved coaching while our offense is presently lead by Manning and likely only needs continuity to further improve.

That said I'm not adamantly opposed to the hiring of Whisenhunt. Not even close. If he can integrate smoothly and quickly he could certainly be an asset. I just don't see it being a move that is going to really improve the team in any meaningful way.

Originally Posted by Lestat

no i don't, but you can make arguments for that point if you compare and contrast the potential for disruption based upon a outside hire vs promoting from within.

Our defense wasn't very good last year, especially whenever they faced great QB's. It needed a serious coaching boost. There is no way you can make the comparison you are making without looking stupid. Sorry.

[winstoncup bronco]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

That said I'm not adamantly opposed to the hiring of Whisenhunt. Not even close. If he can integrate smoothly and quickly he could certainly be an asset. I just don't see it being a move that is going to really improve the team in any meaningful way.

Well, we saw what Haley did to Roethlisberger this year. Hiring a big name isn't always the best idea. It's gotta be right, not just flashy.

[2KBack]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

None of that has anything to do with the statement that the same argument I used against hiring Whisenhunt could've been used against hiring Del Rio. That statement was laughable as our defense was soundly mediocre last year and needed improved coaching while our offense is presently lead by Manning and likely only needs continuity to further improve.

That said I'm not adamantly opposed to the hiring of Whisenhunt. Not even close. If he can integrate smoothly and quickly he could certainly be an asset. I just don't see it being a move that is going to really improve the team in any meaningful way.

I have to disagree on the defense last season...not as good as this year for sure, but I still consider the D as the reason we made the playoffs at all. Denver led the league in 3 and outs, average less than 20 points per game and was -12 in turnovers. That puts the D in tough positions. It was light years better than the previous season. There's a reason Dennis Allen got a HC job, and it's not just the stupidity of the raiders.

So essentially wanting an internal hire on the offense is the same argument for hiring Richard smith to keep the Defensive evolution going. While the other side is hoping to take the opportunity to take another step forward since we have the replace the coach anyway.

If you ain't getting better, you're getting worse.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Originally Posted by maher_tyler

Which is why an internal hire would make the most sence.

Or Tom Moore.

[Lestat]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Our defense wasn't very good last year, especially whenever they faced great QB's. It needed a serious coaching boost. There is no way you can make the comparison you are making without looking stupid. Sorry.

our defense went from pure **** to respectable in one season with Allen.
we gave up yards and big plays by design to get sacks and force turnovers.
that's what every cover 2 bend but don't break defense does unless you have elite players that can take the bend out of it.

we had a elite player in his rookie year, so so players at DT, the LB and DB depth was a complete joke.
we have gotten more experience and brought in much more talent.

continuity and chemistry is key. but so is hiring the best person for the job.
saying we shouldn't disrupt Manning and the offense by bring in a outside source because it is improving and doesn't need messing with aside from upgrading talent in certain area is the same as saying we shouldn't have hired Del Rio because the defense was a certain way and improving.

we jumped from 25th to #4 in offense, but fell from #1 in rushing to #16.

under Allen we went from being ranked 32nd in total defense,25th in passing,31st in rushing,32nd in scoring and a -9 in turnover differential which placed us 27th. to 20th in total defense,18th in passing, 22 in rushing,24th in scoring and a -12 in turnover differential which placed us 26th.

we improved even further under Del Rio, but if you use the argument that you're making about the OC for Manning for the defense then we shouldn't have hired Del Rio since it could have disrupted the uptrend of the defense.

[Lestat]

Originally Posted by winstoncup bronco

Well, we saw what Haley did to Roethlisberger this year. Hiring a big name isn't always the best idea. It's gotta be right, not just flashy.

yeah but Haley was known as a prickly SOB whom clashed with players.
but he still fits with what the Steelers offense wants to do, they just couldn't due to the piss poor OL and Mendenhall not being 100%
Ben's issue was that he never got over Arians being ousted.

[eddie mac]

Maybe I'm one of the few on here but I dont think JDR gets much consideration for a HC position this year. Team's have short memories and his 23-36 record over his last 4 seasons in Jacksonville will still be fresh even after a great season as DC in Denver.

[UberBroncoMan]

Originally Posted by eddie mac

Maybe I'm one of the few on here but I dont think JDR gets much consideration for a HC position this year. Team's have short memories and his 23-36 record over his last 4 seasons in Jacksonville will still be fresh even after a great season as DC in Denver.

I'd be down for him taking a 4 year break kinda like Mike Nolan.

Originally Posted by 2KBack

I have to disagree on the defense last season...not as good as this year for sure, but I still consider the D as the reason we made the playoffs at all. Denver led the league in 3 and outs, average less than 20 points per game and was -12 in turnovers. That puts the D in tough positions. It was light years better than the previous season. There's a reason Dennis Allen got a HC job, and it's not just the stupidity of the raiders.

So essentially wanting an internal hire on the offense is the same argument for hiring Richard smith to keep the Defensive evolution going. While the other side is hoping to take the opportunity to take another step forward since we have the replace the coach anyway.

If you ain't getting better, you're getting worse.

The bolded part made me laugh. That's exactly why he got the job actually.

And you're honestly living in a dream world when it comes to your assessment of last year's defense. They gave up roughly 24 points per game last season and surrendered over 40 points on five separate occasions. The fact is that their overall improvement from the year before was almost entirely due to the arrival of Von Miller and the return of Dumervil. Sorry, but it's true.

[ZONA]

I love how this defense has come along but you can't simply just say it's all been JDR. I know in another thread I made the comment that I saw an interview with Von Miller and he was asked just how different the defense was under JDR vs Allen. Miller said the defense was not that different at all, but had better players and that JDR just made them believe how special they could be. I think it's probably a 65/35 thing. 65% improved because of better players and 35% better DC. Some of our young guys have made leaps and bounds this year (Harris, Miller, Trev, Carter, Moore). Part of that is better coaching but also because of more playing time. Woodyard is probably the highlight of this. He's always been the backkup and with the chance to start, has not looked back. I also think this defense has an influence from Fox as well. Don't forget he's a defensive HC. He learned behind Dick LeBeau as the Steelers secondary coach. And least not, it really helps that our "once in a decade" player is now in his 2nd year and becoming the best defensive player in the league, one that can change the game.

[NFLBRONCO]

I hope JDR stays a few years.

I think the only differences between this years and last years D.

1. More NFL exp gained
2. Manning 30 pts a game vs 14 for Tebow. I know Tebow is god to alot of people but, imo D played tight last year because they felt the burden of carrying the team. This year they can play loose because they know O can score and it shows.

3. JDR is a better better DC vs Allen sorry.